cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

My parents were nice enough to get me a BNR s4 stage II turbo for christmas, and I got myself a gredy e-manage with the optional injector harness. I've been mulling it over and thinking of what injectors to run to keep the TII running safely.
Here are the current modifcations on the car as it sits now:

New atkins rebuild, 14k on it now...

- removed -
acv
egr
aws
bac
airpump
split air pipe
main cat
precat
cold start assist
thermowax
rats nest

- mods -
2.5" dp
2.5" midpipe
2.5" cat back
ebay muffler
tb mod
ported tb
fcd
corksport ss oil cooler lines
cone filter
walboro 255lph pump
ACT 6 puck clutch
apexi turbo timer
silicone vacuum lines

Anywho, I didn't know if I should run 720cc primaries, and 1600cc secondaries with a FPR, or just run 6 720cc injectors, with the additional two on the UIM and a FPR. I won't be driving the car as is with just the e-manage, stage II turbo, and whatever injectors. I plan on getting a FMIC, greddy type S bov, a FPR, a profec B, and a greddy EGT gauge. (I was going to remove the twin scroll flapper, and tap it for the EGT sensor, would the be an ok location?)

Any other advice is appreciated. Also, at the present time, the other things I will be purchasing won't be added to the car until spring/summer time. What would be the basic necessary combination of things to get her running on low boost (say, 5psi) how the car is CURRENTLY setup? Just 4 720cc's for the mean time with the e-manage?

Thanks again for advice and opinions, and Merry Christmas and Happy new year!

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

bump

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

I think you could probably get away with just 720 secondaries but maybe to be on the safe side 4x720's. I think that is really not needed until the stage III though.

91mazdarx7

i'd say 4 720's should work fine with the stage 2 anyone correct me if im wrong

Rex4Life

With the E-manage the 4x720's would be easier and you should be safe on the fuel.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

So running just a e-manage and 4x720cc injectors will be sufficent fuel? I just wasn't sure if it would be enough, or if I should put additional injector bungs on the UIM and 2 more 720's. I used the fuel calc. on rx7.com and 4x720cc injectors at an 80% duty cycle is supposedly only good for 332 fwhp, but the stage II is supposedly good for 332rwhp, so that would be what, 370ish fwhp? I just wanted to be safe rather than sorry...

Should I get a fuel pressure regulator as well?

Running low boost, say 5psi, can I get away with the TMIC, e-manage, and 4 720cc's until I can afford a FMIC, profec B, etc.?

Is tapping the twin scroll flapper, and putting the EGT sensor there a good idea or not?

Thanks to all, Happy Holidays!

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

yeah you should be fine with the tmic up until about 10psi. it's not all that bad of an intercooler just heatsoaks so yes you would be entirely safe running the tmic at 5psi and to me even more than that. I can't remember if it was YearsOFDecay or not but I think he has a stage III bnr turbo with 4x720's and it's working fine.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for everyone's input!

What about the EGT sensor location, good/bad?

Also, should I get a aftermarket FPR such as the SX one?

Any other advice/opinions is/are appreciated

Thanks again!

Rex4Life

Check this thread out: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/4x720cc-injectors-just-720cc-secondaries-360561/

Also, seems like gsracer already has a setup close to what you are thinking about, may want to contact him.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

oh and by the way your parents are the ****! My parents are getting me a lamp oh well they where never into that hole what do you want for christmas thing anyways. Bah humbug

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

Yea, my mom woke my up this moring, and is like, "were getting you that torque....or whatever it is you wanted for your birthday, not that computer thing for the car."

I was like "turbo? thats kind of expensive, I was going to pay for it, and just ask you for the e-manage" But she insisted, so, guess I lucked out.

I'll have to get into contact with gsracer and maybe we can compare ideas.

Merry Christmas all, and happy new year!

ilike2eatricers

lucky bastard!!! I'm just jealous.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

did you ever figure out what was wrong with your car?

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

Karack, yea, the stock turbo went kaput....coolant and oil seals are totally shot. I pulled the DP and there was a little coolant in it, so I am assuming that was the root of my problems...that and a few good vacuum leaks.

Everything else checked out a-ok. I'll take some pics. and post my progress.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

I went with the STAGE III instead of II. So, should I run 1600cc secondaries, or run 2 additional 720s? years of decay has listed in his sig. that he is running the K2RD fuel rail with 1600 secondaries. IDK, I'll figure it out....so much $$

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

might not be him then......damn I can't remember who it was but what you may want is something like 720cc secondaries and 850cc primaries. Oh yeah good choice on the stage III turbo!!!! Lucky ******!

gsracer

My number one option for your set up:

Plumb in 2 550cc injectors into the 2nd and 3rd runner on the upper intake mannifold. If you're not sure what I mean, check out dale clark's old set up on his 10th anniversary, or shepfc3s on teamfc3s. Use the AIC function of the e-manage in conjunction with the greddy map sensor, or one of the clone sensors to control them. You can pick up the clone pressure sensor for around 50 dollars, check the yahoo emenage group.

Option number Two:

720cc primaries coupled with 850cc secondaries

I like the idea of using the emanage as an AIC better. Essentially you're letting the stock ecu do it's thing until it runs out of fuel and you start adding in fuel at whatever boost pressure/rpm that you need it. That additional injector map is controlled by a 16 x 16 matrix. That means you have 256 points of control. AIC's have gotten a bad rap as being crude, or outdated, but this is not your standard haltech f5.

YearsOfDecay

Nope.... I got stock primaries and 1600 secondaries... I also have a Haltech.....

If you're trying to use the stock computer... I'd go with the 4X720's, but you are going to have to do some good tuning with the SAFC to get it to Idle, run when not under boost without sucking the gasoline supply of the US in a week, and get the boost control dowm.

I'd seriously think about an additional injector controller if you absolutely cannot afford a standalone....

I've built a coupld of Megasquirts for guys around here that guys planned on using as secondary injector controllers, so that moight be a low cost alternative..

I don't know much about the megasquirt other than how to put it together, and get it set up and tested... Don't know how the guys are setting them up in the cars.

gsracer

I'm currently running 4 x 720 on the e-manage, and ran it on the safc before I was on the e-manage. I don't know who started the myth that a car wouldn't idle with 4 x 720's, the idle is rock solid. I'm not sure if you're familiar with the e-manage software, but it's a lot more in depth than a safc, this allows someone to tune for safe a/f mixtures under WOT, while still being able to lean out mixtures for better gas economy under cruise.

No doubt, an e6k will be superior to any piggy back. However, the e-manage is a decent alternative. The e-manage can also function as an additional injector controller. You bring up an awesome point there, the megasquirt is getting more advanced everyday and is still cheap as hell. It would make a great additional injector controller.

The nice thing about the e-manage is being able to adjust the afm voltage, the ability to override any stock duty cycle limits (or rather raw afm limits), being able to retard/advance timing, and having the option to use it as an AIC - all tied into one unit.

You won't need a fpr, although with a walbro an aftermarket fpr will allow you to return the base fuel pressure to what it should be stock. You can tune this increase in fuel pressure out by using the afm correction map, but I'd rather have the fpr on there.

The stock top mount works ok for a stock turbo at moderate boost pressures. You'll be fine running the hybrid at low boost, but you really want to get some sort of front mount on there as soon as possible.

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

years of decay and gsracer, thanks for all the input. I originally intended on putting 2 additional injectors in my UIM on the 2nd and 3rd intake runner. I was initially going to run two more 720s, but then figured that the 550s would suffice. So as of now, that will be the injector setup I will run, if needed I will run 720s in that location in the future.

According to RX7.com's fuel calculator, 4x720s as primary and secondaries at 67% duty cycle, and then 2 additional 550s in my UIM at an 80% duty cycle will support 404.8 fwhp. This should be more than enough to properly fuel the car. I am still considering the getting the SFX FPR as well though, just for peace of mind.

The e-manage is ordered, as is the Stage III BNR. I am also going to order the additional injector harness for the e-manage, but not the ignition harness at this time. I have a laptop with the e-manage software already installed. I won't be able to really tune the car properly till spring/summer though, I will probably end up doing so at RX7store.net's facility in columbus while using their dyno.

I have also ordered a 24.5"Lx12"HX3"Thick intercooler core. I will order the silicone couplers from RRE and get some mandrel aluminized bends (I don't have a tig, but a mig and stick) and will custom mount the intercooler, I will probably also be using the greddy elbow, or fit the N/A elbow like I and Jason have on his 10th AE custom FMIC for his to4s.

I will be using a greddy type S BOV (I like to stick with one brand), and am also considering using the 89-91 TII AFM. I have also ordered a Greddy profec B spec 1 boost controller. I think that basically covers all aspects so far, there may be some things I have forgotten, I have a list laying around somewhere. I just have to wait until everything gets here. I am taking plenty of photos to show my progress. Thanks for all your help, you have no idea how much it is appreciated.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year,
Chris Stahlman

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

bump

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

The e-manage is installed, I am going to wait to install the FMIC until spring, and am going to use the TMIC for now since its winter, and the car isn't really going to be going out more than a handfull of times, or less. Consider this initial testing... Probably 5psi low boost, 8psi high boost.

As far as fuel goes. I purchased a set of (2) 750cc RC injectors, high imp. off of a forum member to use as my primaries. I am still unsure of what secondaries to run. I am leaning towards the K2RD fuel rail coupled with (2) 1600cc injectors, which would give me more than sufficent fuel for my setup. I also believe a FPR should be purchased if I go this route.
Walbro is already in the tank.

The only reason I am choosing to do this, instead of running say (4)x750cc's and (2) additional 550's is just because at this point I am unwilling to, and also not really able to financially send the UIM out, or to weld it myself, and do the rest of the work needed to run (2) additional injectors. I just feel running large *** secondaries will be sufficent, yet is kind of the lazy way too, but oh well.

IMO, with the e-manage and support tool, coupled with a FPR I should be able to regulate fuel enough to avoid any major problems such as stumbling, or flooding. I guess there is only one way to really find out.

Boost contol will be taken care of in a few weeks....or spring, as well as a BOV. I need to save some cash for skool books. Everything else is taken care of for the most part. I have been taking pictures, and what not, and will probably take some short videos as well. I will set up a site someday and thn everyone who is interested can check it out.

Thanks again,
Chris

cds00bsmg

iTrader: (1)

bump

gsracer

The 1600's are far, far to big for the e-manage to handle. Despite it's advanced features, it's still a piggyback that is altering the stock afm signal. If you are worried about running out of fuel then go with a pair of 850cc secondaries, and use them with the 750's. I'm runnning a very conservative tune at 12 pounds and my injector duty cycles at the highest might peak around 85 percent. This is with 4 720's.

Another option is to just plug the two 750's into the UIM, and use those as your additional injectors. You'll want the pressure sensor if you do this.


- Matt

ShadowX

Hey, so how is this going? I was thinking that the 1600cc injectors are probably just too big too. Why not some 850cc; I'm sure this is already worked, but I'm looking at the exact same upgrade right now. Please let me know how this worked for you.