What the hell caused this...
:
06-12-11, 02:35 PM
#6
It fell out. I found it on the floor just a few minutes ago.
The compressor wheel was nearly siezed on to the turbine shaft. I had to BEAT the shaft out of it. I guess the turbine shaft spinning inside caused a little welding action. I haven't gotten it torn down all the way, but it seems like it's just DONE for. I gotta get crafty now. I want it to run, but I just don't have the money for another turbo right now. Maybe I'll build my own hybrid.
I figured something was up when it suddenly started smoking (I guess that was the turbine shaft popping back, then the piston seal popped out of its groove) and sounded like a damn airplane.
The compressor wheel was nearly siezed on to the turbine shaft. I had to BEAT the shaft out of it. I guess the turbine shaft spinning inside caused a little welding action. I haven't gotten it torn down all the way, but it seems like it's just DONE for. I gotta get crafty now. I want it to run, but I just don't have the money for another turbo right now. Maybe I'll build my own hybrid.
I figured something was up when it suddenly started smoking (I guess that was the turbine shaft popping back, then the piston seal popped out of its groove) and sounded like a damn airplane.
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06-14-11, 07:59 PM
#9
Well, I'm working on getting a replacement compressor for it now. The trouble I'm running into is that I'm still not 100% sure what I need to get. Now, I wasn't sure of what the specs were on it, since I bought it second hand from someone who didn't know either. It was definitely some sort of S5 hybrid, and was told it was a T04B. Said that the person HE got it from said it was a panspeed hybrid. There aren't any markings on it, so there's really no way of knowing.
I've been reading up about Hypertek's "budget ebay hybrid turbo", so I've been looking for a T3/T4 hybrid to tear up. The compressor I have only has one thing stamped on it, and that's .60 A/R. I've been reading about what this means, and it seems that A/R stands for "area over radius". So it's just a ratio. OK, but what does that REALLY mean to me?
The reason I ask is that all the T3/T4 turbos I've found are around a .50 A/R on the compressor end. Now, I'm not sure what the stock A/R of the HT18TS is either, so I don't want to get something that's smaller than stock.
OR! The other question I have is that I've found a bunch of T4 turbos that have a .60A/R or .70A/R compressor. In Hypertek's writeup, it says that Garrett T3's have the same shaft diameter as the HT18TS, so the compressor wheels slip on no problem. Does the T4 have a larger diameter shaft then?
And finally. If anyone sees anything that would be a good candidate to use to make my NEW hybrid, please show me, so I know what to look for.
Edit:
This is what I'm currently looking at. It's a T04S compressor kit. I went out and mic'd the turbine shaft where the compressor wheel fits on it, and it seems to be 0.250 inches. EXACTLY the inner diameter of the compressor kit's wheel. That being said... I wonder if this'll fit on the HT18TS chra? I do already have a 360 deg bearing...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...item588e52be31
I've been reading up about Hypertek's "budget ebay hybrid turbo", so I've been looking for a T3/T4 hybrid to tear up. The compressor I have only has one thing stamped on it, and that's .60 A/R. I've been reading about what this means, and it seems that A/R stands for "area over radius". So it's just a ratio. OK, but what does that REALLY mean to me?
The reason I ask is that all the T3/T4 turbos I've found are around a .50 A/R on the compressor end. Now, I'm not sure what the stock A/R of the HT18TS is either, so I don't want to get something that's smaller than stock.
OR! The other question I have is that I've found a bunch of T4 turbos that have a .60A/R or .70A/R compressor. In Hypertek's writeup, it says that Garrett T3's have the same shaft diameter as the HT18TS, so the compressor wheels slip on no problem. Does the T4 have a larger diameter shaft then?
And finally. If anyone sees anything that would be a good candidate to use to make my NEW hybrid, please show me, so I know what to look for.
Edit:
This is what I'm currently looking at. It's a T04S compressor kit. I went out and mic'd the turbine shaft where the compressor wheel fits on it, and it seems to be 0.250 inches. EXACTLY the inner diameter of the compressor kit's wheel. That being said... I wonder if this'll fit on the HT18TS chra? I do already have a 360 deg bearing...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...item588e52be31
06-14-11, 08:44 PM
#11
Be careful with the stuff on ebay. If the housing is polished clean and has no markings at all (or says something stupid like "turbocharger"), it was made in China. 99% of what's there is Chinese crap. If it's dirty in the picture, says Garrett/AirResearch/BorgWarner/Turbonetics, etc... it's genuine. Your compressor has 8 blades, so it's probably a T04B. The V-trim wheel is pretty common in Japanese Hybrids. There's also an odd 7 blade wheel with the same measurements as the V-trim on Knightsports turbos. When looking for hybrid parts, you pretty much want to look for T04Bs.
8 Blade T04B:
409179-0021, 70x48.36 mm, 48 trim, S trim (37 lbs/min)
409179-0022, 70x49.50 mm, 50 trim
409179-0023, 70x51.61 mm, 54 trim
409179-0024, 70x54.00 mm, 60 trim, U trim
409179-0025, 70x55.37 mm, 63 trim, V trim (48 lbs/min)
6 blade T04B
409826-0006, 70x48.35 mm, 48 trim
409826-0012, 70x52.85 mm, 57 trim
409826-0014, 70x55.30 mm, 62 trim, V trim (48 lbs/min)
409826-0015, 70x58.40 mm, 70 trim, H trim (49 lbs/min)
Turbonetics 60-1, 76.2x59.0 mm (57 lbs/min)
Turbonetics 62-1 (60 lbs/min)
Search ebay for "T04b" to find most. If you search "T3" "T4" you'll get a load of Chinese turbos.
This is a V-trim wheel: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...item3f0a3a0788.
This looks genuine & has an H-trim wheel: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garre...item3a66a61f93
I don't see much else right now. You just have to check often.
Also, the stock turbo has a 0.5 A/R compressor cover, and almost all T04b covers will be 0.6 A/R. If your cover and backplate aren't damaged, you just just get a new wheel and compressor nut.
8 Blade T04B:
409179-0021, 70x48.36 mm, 48 trim, S trim (37 lbs/min)
409179-0022, 70x49.50 mm, 50 trim
409179-0023, 70x51.61 mm, 54 trim
409179-0024, 70x54.00 mm, 60 trim, U trim
409179-0025, 70x55.37 mm, 63 trim, V trim (48 lbs/min)
6 blade T04B
409826-0006, 70x48.35 mm, 48 trim
409826-0012, 70x52.85 mm, 57 trim
409826-0014, 70x55.30 mm, 62 trim, V trim (48 lbs/min)
409826-0015, 70x58.40 mm, 70 trim, H trim (49 lbs/min)
Turbonetics 60-1, 76.2x59.0 mm (57 lbs/min)
Turbonetics 62-1 (60 lbs/min)
Search ebay for "T04b" to find most. If you search "T3" "T4" you'll get a load of Chinese turbos.
This is a V-trim wheel: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...item3f0a3a0788.
This looks genuine & has an H-trim wheel: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Garre...item3a66a61f93
I don't see much else right now. You just have to check often.
Also, the stock turbo has a 0.5 A/R compressor cover, and almost all T04b covers will be 0.6 A/R. If your cover and backplate aren't damaged, you just just get a new wheel and compressor nut.
Last edited by RotaryRocket88; 06-14-11 at 08:46 PM.
06-14-11, 10:04 PM
#13
I pulled out the caliper and checked every measurement against the specs on this one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...d=240512777676
Everything matches, so I'm going for it!
Thanks man. You've saved me some serious headaches.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Turbo...d=240512777676
Everything matches, so I'm going for it!
Thanks man. You've saved me some serious headaches.
06-15-11, 08:47 PM
#14
the bigger the wheel and more air it flows is a bad idea when building a hybrid turbo as the turbine is always the stock small size and will be super laggy when overbuilding the cold side compressor. this is why most hybrids stop at a T04B. you can move up to a T04E but it will be even more laggy.
06-15-11, 09:05 PM
#15
Dude, I swear I was so close to getting that T04S compressor too. I doubt I'd have had any problem with an ebay housing and wheel. I wouldn't use a turbine shaft or bearings/seals from china, but the compressor wheel and housing would probably have been fine... even though it would have been super laggy (especially with long intercooler piping.)
I'm fortunate that there wasn't damage done to the housing, so the v-trim wheel is on its merry way. Maybe in the future after the engine's ready for a rebuild I'll move up to something large and ball bearing.
I'm fortunate that there wasn't damage done to the housing, so the v-trim wheel is on its merry way. Maybe in the future after the engine's ready for a rebuild I'll move up to something large and ball bearing.
06-15-11, 09:10 PM
#16
well also keep in mind when you overload one side of the turbo with a much bigger wheel it offsets the balance of the turbo drastically, even minor imbalances will be catastrophic to the turbo at the speeds it will see.
so if you go much larger than stock you should upgrade the turbine wheel and main shaft to support the compressor upgrade. T04B cold side wheels are generally ok and i used mine for about 15k miles trouble free.
the one you're replacing with is about as big as i could recommend without a complete overhaul to the turbine also.
so if you go much larger than stock you should upgrade the turbine wheel and main shaft to support the compressor upgrade. T04B cold side wheels are generally ok and i used mine for about 15k miles trouble free.
the one you're replacing with is about as big as i could recommend without a complete overhaul to the turbine also.
06-16-11, 10:54 AM
#17
It's highly advisable to have the rotating assembly rebalanced, since the compressor is being changed out. The new wheel won't have the same weight distribution as the old one. If you have any turbo shops local to you, give them a shot first. They may be able to just give you a new compressor nut as well. It is a standard thread (not reverse like some).
06-16-11, 11:27 AM
#18
I think it's absolutely necessary. I got so carried away with getting the project running that I forgot to balance it before installing it. I figured I could get a good base tune on it enough, then remove the turbo (after making sure everything else works fine) then have the turbo balanced at a nearby shop. It didn't even make it that far.
10-18-11, 09:17 PM
#19
I rebuilt it...
And it happened again.
This time was different. I pulled the turbo out and THEN noticed it happened. HOWEVER, I was not experiencing a turbocharger issue (yet), it was only pulled due to an exhaust leak, which I was going to fix with a custom made copper annealed gasket.
Here's the damage:
Here's how it happened...
I was so concerned with that nut NOT coming off again, I over-torqued the **** out of the nut. I also used red loctite on the threads, but that didn't break anything.
The over-torquing of the nut crushed the soft aluminum on the compressor wheel, not only on the front where the nut touches the wheel, but also on the back where the thrust collar rides. So now it's got more room to wiggle, giving it axial play. Now it's chipping teeth and throwing those shards all around.
Once I started disassembling it, things got hairy. I went to take the nut off and it snapped the shaft flush with the compressor wheel. Not even a whole lot of pressure.... must have been close to breaking by itself
I have the worst luck.
And it happened again.
This time was different. I pulled the turbo out and THEN noticed it happened. HOWEVER, I was not experiencing a turbocharger issue (yet), it was only pulled due to an exhaust leak, which I was going to fix with a custom made copper annealed gasket.
Here's the damage:
Here's how it happened...
I was so concerned with that nut NOT coming off again, I over-torqued the **** out of the nut. I also used red loctite on the threads, but that didn't break anything.
The over-torquing of the nut crushed the soft aluminum on the compressor wheel, not only on the front where the nut touches the wheel, but also on the back where the thrust collar rides. So now it's got more room to wiggle, giving it axial play. Now it's chipping teeth and throwing those shards all around.
Once I started disassembling it, things got hairy. I went to take the nut off and it snapped the shaft flush with the compressor wheel. Not even a whole lot of pressure.... must have been close to breaking by itself
I have the worst luck.
10-19-11, 05:19 PM
#22
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Good luck with your 3rd try. Think of it this way - you've already avoided engine failure twice now, thats some serious luck there.
Why did you pull it out a second time though before it ever gave you problems?
Isn't the most common failure for stockish turbo chargers the oil seals going out, producing noticeable black smoke out the exhaust?
Why did you pull it out a second time though before it ever gave you problems?
Isn't the most common failure for stockish turbo chargers the oil seals going out, producing noticeable black smoke out the exhaust?
10-19-11, 07:08 PM
#23
Lol... that was a problem I fought again and again. I ended up getting one of those Ebay Chinese piston rings for it because I kept pouring so much money into it. Wouldn't you know it, the damn china ring fixed it....
This time the reason I pulled it was due to a turbo to manifold exhaust leak. The Pineapple Racing gasket I bought for it (graphite) didn't hold up too long. I'm working on making a copper annealed gasket out of 3mm copper sheet. We'll see how that works out for me
of course after rebuilding the turbo, that is
again.
This time the reason I pulled it was due to a turbo to manifold exhaust leak. The Pineapple Racing gasket I bought for it (graphite) didn't hold up too long. I'm working on making a copper annealed gasket out of 3mm copper sheet. We'll see how that works out for me
of course after rebuilding the turbo, that is
again.
10-21-11, 09:12 PM
#24
I had something very similar happen to my T04 hybrid within a couple weeks of running it
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=turbo
Really sucks.
https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...ighlight=turbo
Really sucks.
10-21-11, 09:24 PM
#25
i have tried copper on the turbo, won't work, stick with OEM even if it is used in decent shape.
still wondering what sheared the blades and seems to rattled around on the turbo blades themselves though.. doesn't look like the wheel ate itself but rather something was bouncing in front of it as what happened to your first turbo.
you don't have to get too nuts with the locknut or use any loctite, if it comes off it will come off regardless of what you do. you can always crimp the threads with a vice grip lightly if you want a safety grip to keep the nut from coming off(requires rethreading before disassembly).
still wondering what sheared the blades and seems to rattled around on the turbo blades themselves though.. doesn't look like the wheel ate itself but rather something was bouncing in front of it as what happened to your first turbo.
you don't have to get too nuts with the locknut or use any loctite, if it comes off it will come off regardless of what you do. you can always crimp the threads with a vice grip lightly if you want a safety grip to keep the nut from coming off(requires rethreading before disassembly).
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 10-21-11 at 09:28 PM.