what the hell?
11-29-04, 03:55 PM
#1
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what the hell?
I failed smog again! why does baby jesus torment me? I just had and oil change and a new cat installed an hour before i took the test.my cars engine is bone stock, stock exhaust,stock air box? what do i need to pass. i have a 91 vert n/a with umm like 185.000 miles. i live in Los Angeles Cali in the San Fernando Valley( the anus of LA) does anyone know of a cash under the table guy or something. or any good tricks i can do. please help........
11-29-04, 04:03 PM
#2
Engine, Not Motor
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Have you given the car a FULL tuneup? Plugs, wires, TPS adjustment, all fluids, check all sensors, etc. Very important. Putting on a new cat won't do squat if the car isn't running properly. 
Also, is your AFM in the stock position? If it is rotated 90 degrees, then you will run either rich or lean, depending which way it is facing.
Finally, it is VERY important that the car be at FULL operating temperature during the test. If the car cools down, it will reenter cold start, which will make it run VERY rich.
Also, is your AFM in the stock position? If it is rotated 90 degrees, then you will run either rich or lean, depending which way it is facing.
Finally, it is VERY important that the car be at FULL operating temperature during the test. If the car cools down, it will reenter cold start, which will make it run VERY rich.
11-29-04, 04:06 PM
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I could see the AFM position screwing things up in terms of A/F. If the AFM is upright with the air plate inside moving upwards towards the hood, then gravity itself would sort of weigh it down, meaning that more air would have to push through for it to open properly.
11-29-04, 04:06 PM
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damn you're close. i passed 15mph HC with 131/131 HC. i had my safc dialed at -50% at 1600rpm and -40% at 2200rpm. the actual air correction isn't that drastic, but thats what my settings were at.
with 185,000 on an engine, i imagine your compression isn't what it could be which could be assisting your failure. HAILERS has written input many times about using/checking the ACV. you may want to search "ACV" and user "HAILERS."
does your car backfire at higher rpm shifts? mine started feeling like it was shooting more flames a couple of weeks before an apex seal slipped out of groove. i guess the low compression was allowing a lot of extra fuel out the rear.
your numbers show that your cat and air pump are working, but can only do so much if your car is running very rich. do you still have the thermal reactors (aka pre-cats) ? i'm not sure if old pre-cats help or hurt with 185,000 miles on them.
i assume you used 87 octane as well. higher octane will hurt you, unless youre failing NOx, which you obviously aren't.
with 185,000 on an engine, i imagine your compression isn't what it could be which could be assisting your failure. HAILERS has written input many times about using/checking the ACV. you may want to search "ACV" and user "HAILERS."
does your car backfire at higher rpm shifts? mine started feeling like it was shooting more flames a couple of weeks before an apex seal slipped out of groove. i guess the low compression was allowing a lot of extra fuel out the rear.
your numbers show that your cat and air pump are working, but can only do so much if your car is running very rich. do you still have the thermal reactors (aka pre-cats) ? i'm not sure if old pre-cats help or hurt with 185,000 miles on them.
i assume you used 87 octane as well. higher octane will hurt you, unless youre failing NOx, which you obviously aren't.
11-29-04, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by gxlspeeder
thats extremely high, make sure your not misfiring
11-29-04, 05:00 PM
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I live near Tripoint so im going over there to see about a tune. Aaron i changed the plugs myself about 4 months ago. Im not sure how to check the AFM to see if its in the right position. tell me how to do this, but you guys are right ...these numbers are to close. I cant believe how lame Calif emission laws are. but do you guys really think just a tune up could help?
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11-29-04, 05:15 PM
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if the AFM is attached in its stock position, it should be fine. the airflow meter's output should be: Ignition switch ON - approx 4.0v; Idle 2.5-3.5v. you listed you were using the stock airbox, so i assume your AFM is mounted in the stock position.
11-29-04, 05:18 PM
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run a quick tuneup, get some GTP in there... (it works .. somehow) what cats are you using anyways? new plugs,wires, and oil change make world of difference. also, if the cats are BRAND NEW, they may not be broken in. it usually takes a couple days for them to really start working (notice any strange stinky smells?)
edit: i think its funny that our NO levels allow for being so high.. means you can really lean it out if you wanted to.
also, just b/c hes close to passing doesnt mean hes almost there. i played that game for 6 months, trying to get rid of that last 20 HC's by doing all sorts of crap like changing injectors and new wires plugs sensors.. it added up to about 800$ but i still failed horribly. then i went and got a bonez cat and VOILA i passed with 30hc's. no methanol or gas additives.\
speak of the devil, did you try running a 10% solution of denatured alchohol? thats good for a few hc's sometimes, but ive had bad luck with it.
edit #2: your o2 levels are high, your cats probably werent really doing their job. make sure you have the tech run the car at 4k for a few minutes till the exhaust is so hot it burns a cigarette ( i smoke alot) i failed my first run till we ran the car up. sometimes it takes some exhaust movement to heat the main cat up.
edit: i think its funny that our NO levels allow for being so high.. means you can really lean it out if you wanted to.
also, just b/c hes close to passing doesnt mean hes almost there. i played that game for 6 months, trying to get rid of that last 20 HC's by doing all sorts of crap like changing injectors and new wires plugs sensors.. it added up to about 800$ but i still failed horribly. then i went and got a bonez cat and VOILA i passed with 30hc's. no methanol or gas additives.\
speak of the devil, did you try running a 10% solution of denatured alchohol? thats good for a few hc's sometimes, but ive had bad luck with it.
edit #2: your o2 levels are high, your cats probably werent really doing their job. make sure you have the tech run the car at 4k for a few minutes till the exhaust is so hot it burns a cigarette ( i smoke alot) i failed my first run till we ran the car up. sometimes it takes some exhaust movement to heat the main cat up.
Last edited by rs_1101; 11-29-04 at 05:24 PM.
11-29-04, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by BlaCkPlaGUE
I could see the AFM position screwing things up in terms of A/F. If the AFM is upright with the air plate inside moving upwards towards the hood, then gravity itself would sort of weigh it down, meaning that more air would have to push through for it to open properly.
It has that sliding cone thing.
It really doesn't matter on the AFM position...
-Ted
11-29-04, 06:23 PM
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(Quote by AaronCake) Also, is your AFM in the stock position? If it is rotated 90 degrees, then you will run either rich or lean, depending which way it is facing.
That shouldn't matter since he has a S5. I wonder about reatrding the timing a bit. Possibly use a bit of alcohol in the fuel tank. What condition is the 02 sensor in?
That shouldn't matter since he has a S5. I wonder about reatrding the timing a bit. Possibly use a bit of alcohol in the fuel tank. What condition is the 02 sensor in?
11-29-04, 07:16 PM
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my 91 was affected by the position of the AFM noticeably at idle. my car had trouble idling all the time. one day, i was looking at things with a friend and he lifted the intake by the cone filter. when he did this, the idle smoothed out. the previous owner, for whatever reason, didnt have the bracket to hold the AFM horizontal. from then on, i've kept the AFM fairly horizontal with zip ties (here over a year later and i still don't have a proper afm bracket).
11-29-04, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by casio
wouldn't advancing help and retarding hurt?
11-29-04, 07:38 PM
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Originally Posted by casio
my 91 was affected by the position of the AFM noticeably at idle. my car had trouble idling all the time. one day, i was looking at things with a friend and he lifted the intake by the cone filter. when he did this, the idle smoothed out. the previous owner, for whatever reason, didnt have the bracket to hold the AFM horizontal. from then on, i've kept the AFM fairly horizontal with zip ties (here over a year later and i still don't have a proper afm bracket).
11-29-04, 07:45 PM
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i just hadn't gotten around to buying one. santiago had shipped me one, but boxes got mixed up and i ended up with someone's injectors. i don't know what happened to the box i was supposed to get. he sent me a manual passenger side belt, though.
i'm still not following you on the advancing vs retarding issue. i don't know much about timing, honestly, but i know advancing can yield more power and increases chances of detonation. running leaner has similar effects. retarding timing is done to avoid detonation. moreso, it takes away power. with that way of thinking, i imagined that leaning it out would up the NOx and lower the HC and retarding would lower the NOx and raise the HC. =/
i'm still not following you on the advancing vs retarding issue. i don't know much about timing, honestly, but i know advancing can yield more power and increases chances of detonation. running leaner has similar effects. retarding timing is done to avoid detonation. moreso, it takes away power. with that way of thinking, i imagined that leaning it out would up the NOx and lower the HC and retarding would lower the NOx and raise the HC. =/
11-29-04, 10:24 PM
#19
Doin a rebuild.
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Go in a lower gear, mine didn't pass until I did 25mph test in 2nd and 15mph test in 1st.... should be right under 3000... dang, your cali numbers are low.
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