I have the AEM wideband and it is great. I had a narrow band Auto-meter that worked fine but AS WITH ANYONE who continually is modding their turbo 7 you are getting closer to certain death without a wideband. When I blew my last engine my narrow band was saying I was stoich. No high boost or anything. After I swapped engines and didn't touch the fuel system or adjustment controls my *brand new wideband* told me I was hitting 15.5 AFR when around 5,000 rpm at WOT @ 10psi. Remember 11 to 11.5 is stioch in a rotary not 14.5 like on most piston engines.(Now I know this depends on PSI/FUEL AMOUNT and OCTANE but just an example).

Point is Airworks, that even if you want just simple monitering, 1. You will be able to do the same with a wideband and even get way more accurate readings and 2. You will have one for later when you mods start to get heavier(if not done already).

You'll end up buying one eventually.

 

man you're starting to convince me of a f***ing wideband gauge...

actually i'm going to downgrade my mods (virtually), 'cause the lag of that T60-1 has been annoying me for too long. so my new project is: rebuild, porting, BNR II, SAFC II, FMIC, Walbro, 1200cc secs, and all the rest...

but considering soon having a rebuilt engine under the hood, investments in security gadgets would maybe not be a bad idea...

 

Do we really have to go through this again?

Narrowbands are NOT fine tuning devices, but they have many useful purposes as I have previously mentioned. Calling them "pieces of crap" just shows that you do not know how to interpret their readings.

Tuning is not just setting a specific ratio on a wideband. It is much more then that. A wideband is a tuning aid. In order to get a good tune, you must know the feel of the car above all else and know when you are in the danger zone. A wideband is a great aid that will tell you if you are a safe A/F ratio, but it is useless past that point. There's a lot more to tuning then just setting the A/F ratio. A little thing called timing is important as well, which for the most part no A/F monitor is going to help with...

But your recommendation is moot since you don't seen to know what we are talking about here.

OK, I'll say it one more time....

A narrowband is not a tuning device, but it does have many useful functions. It will tell you when the engine is in closed loop if you intend to drive for mileage. It will tell you if you are stupidly rich or lean at a glance. A narrowband will let you know that the stock O2 sensor is working correctly, or if the stock emissions system is working as well (if that's a concern). If you know what you are doing (and most people clearly don't) then you can even do some rudimentary tuning on it.

For example, I rough tune all the time using a narrowband as a reference. Most of this tuning is done by "feel" but the narrowband is useful as it will confirm when you are in the ballpark. Then for the dyno, drivability and final tuning I use a wideband. Why? When a car has a base map, it's generally stupid rich. This will foul out an (expensive) wideband and make it read inaccurately later on. Thus it's far better to start on a $30 sensor then a $300 one.

Also keep in mind that A/F ratio readings from a wideband can get pretty wacky if there are misfires (either lean or rich misfires). Generally this will make the sensor read lean, so you end up adding fuel because the sensor tells you...

 

Yes, sounds reasonable to me. If you have a skilled tuner, constant monitoring with a wideband will be unnecessary.

 

well, you can pick apart my opinion's all day...
i will not use one for the simple fact to SEE that my Os sensor is working when i can spend 3 dollars on test lights (for the stock ECU on my S4) to read error codes.....
if hes that worried about GAS MILEAGE then why buy or put effort into a RX7???
its a sports car not a insight...
see where im getting at?
and he has someone thats gonna tune the car for him.....so he dont need the narrowdand for that....
things happen all the time on these cars..injector clips fail...whatever...problems that can cause a lean spot....something thats gonna blow your car up....
id rather have a wideband to show me where my reading is at instead of a lite show....

 

?? never mentioned any concerns about gas mileage...
weird...

 

thats why i dont see a point on having the narrowband?

if you want to monitor your A/F why not spend a few more bucks (even get a used one in the 4 sale section) and KNOW where your at instead of guessing if your rich or lean with a lite show.....
thats where i read about the gas mileage.
if im worried about a motor..i think spend a couple hundred bucks is WELL worth it in the long run rather than spending 40 and needing to worry the whole time and then rebuilding...
although i HAVE a wideband and it didnt save my motor, so that just goes to show that neither will save your motor...they will just let you know where your at....

when my motor blew i could have sworn it was readin 11:5 which is right where you need to be (high comp rotors) so i dont think it was a fuel issue with my motor...ive yet to discover what happened....*shrug*

 

Wow, tell me where to get one of those wide-bands sensors that last forever, cause all the ones I've seen have lifetimes measured in HOURS.


Yes, it'll tell you lean.
It'll tell you rich.
It'll also tell you you're in closed loop, and your stock ECU is doing it's job.
For $30 (under $10 if you build it yourself), it's CHEAP compared to a $300 wide-band system...

It's like arguing a fitty-cent Made-in-Taiwan screwdriver is not good enough, and you need to pay $30 for a Snap On one.
If you don't know how to use the tools correctly, they are useless.
To all the people who don't know how to use a narrow-band AFR gauge correctly, you have no qualification to be making (false) comments on them - most of it is pure bullshit in the first place.


-Ted

 

okok!!

think I'll get that wideband one... but first I'll rebuild my motor! i took it apart yesterday... ooohhh ****.. some nice scratches in the housing surface
(will post some pics soon)

and: i was reading very rich afrs too (on the dyno the day before) when it blew on a cold evening. my theory: the 3-piece apex seals don't take too much boost (it was overboostin' to 1.35bar), they start to swirl and brake... maybe too much boost killed you engine too??... now i'm going with 2-piece

 

I wish I had the honor of being spanked by Aaron... Oh wait, that won't happen because I'd never attempt to argue with him.

Great site Aaron. Lots of great info. Read it all the time. Turboed Lawnmower FTW!

Hmmm... I wish there was a "fuel on the fire" smiley...

 

who's arguing? simply difference of opinion?

 

as long as different opinions are underlayed with solid arguments, i'm fine

 

i'm surprised no one's mentions a narrowband o2 and exhaust gas temp gauge will give you a pretty good view of what's going on.

 

It's hard enough trying to explain about a narrowband A/F gauge....Throw EGT into the mix and people's heads start to explode.

 

hey guys, another update! while examinating the rotor housings of my dead s5 13bt i've dicovered that there are some serious flakes missing at the edge of the housing, where the apex seal ends. this could be the reason for one apex seal having failed. maybe there was one flake coming off and then has been in the way of the apex seal while passing the bulge in the housing, so the apex seal has been torn... under high boost and temperature... booom

 

s0o0o0o i have an autometer boost guage and i'm considering getting the match A/F guage they have both wide and narrow now, has anyone bought either and liked it for what its worth. I'm not going to use the narrow for tuning but is it ok for monitoring?

 

holy crap!
i must have had a bad week back then!!

 

My thinking is I would rather go with a wideband but REted reminded me about the lifespan on most wideband sensors, so I would actually rather have a narrow band for monitoring and a wideband for tuning.

 

"Hours" might be a bit of an exaggeration. The Bosch sensors used in most (all?) wideband kits are OEM to several manufacturers and they sure aren't replacing sensors on an hourly basis.

 

I think I've seen most of the Bosch LMU series sensors rated around 150 hours?


-Ted

 

Doesn't BMW and other high end cars have wideband O2 sensors? What types do they use?

 

didnt read far enough ahead to read this to see if you bought anything yet.. i hope not..

http://www.strippermotorsports.com/a...FSgRGgodaxc4mQ

and i got mine from here, i think.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/AEM-U...spagenameZWDVW

edit: thats not the right ebay page... the one i got was buy it noy only for 250 shipped. and its in perfect condition.

 

I don't think this is right, and had to jump in so people don't get the wrong idea.

"stoich" refers to stoichiometric air/fuel ratio. This means the air/fuel ratio at which the masses on each side of the reaction are properly balanced for a complete reaction. So as long as you are burning gas using air then the ratio is the same no matter where you're burning it, whether it's a rocket, a piston engine, a rotary engine, or a flamethrower. It's a mass balance equation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stoichiometry
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air-fuel_ratio

The benefit of a narrowband should be obvious: If it's pegged at "lean" then you've certainly got a problem, and one which you might not have discovered until something very bad happened otherwise. (+1 metoo for everything Aaron said.)

 

Don't know offhand, but I've never seen the literature of any wideband kit mention a hour limit on the sensor. Only warnings about leaded fuel, premix and to replace the sensor when the display is slow to respond.