wthdidusay82

iTrader: (15)

Now this is a debate I've been having with a friend of mine who will argue with me until the end of time that using premix while also using the omp has no negative effects and is completely positive.

My argument is that he is actually creating more deposits in his engine because hes giving more oil than needed , making his car smoke significantly more, and may also be making less horsepower because of it as well.

In my opinion either you do one or the other , you dont need to do both.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

We read the thread from last week, there's no convincing him otherwise.

Any ill or positive effect caused by running both is small regardless, but some of the benefits of running premix (cleaner burn, less deposits) are negated because you're still injecting engine oil.

Its pointless if the MOP works properly to premix. He's wasting money - not to mention using SHITTY premix. (Marvel mystery oil)

Here's the old one where the person supporting using both seems to run out of steam with his argument. I didn't even bother responding to his list of "good things" that occur from the use of his magic bottle:

https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/fc-owners-fued-could-too-much-oil-703117/page2/

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

I disagree that the OMP negates the cleanliness associated with running pre-mix. I took the exhaust manifold off my car at 20k and inspected the seals and rotor and housing surfaces. Clean as a whistle with a healthy glaze of lubrication on them.

OMP and pre-mix is the best of both worlds:

If you run out of mix, you still have oil injection.

The pre-mix keeps the deposits of the engine oil under control as it coats the surfaces and dissolves them, while adding increased wear protection.

I DEFINITELY agree that MMO is bullshit as a pre-mix.

greener_dude

[QUOTE=classicauto;7513236]We read the thread from last week, there's no convincing him otherwise.

heres the problem:

"Its pointless if the MOP works properly to premix. He's wasting money - not to mention using SHITTY premix."

Trouble is you only know when an MOP doesn't work... hence fried motor in my car right now. premix is cheap, rebuild pricy. I will add premix from now on. The bright side is that my car doesn't eat as much engine oil. lol

phoenix7

look, I told him this before too (if it's the same guy):

Test your stock OMP to make sure it is working right and WON'T BREAK and you won't need to premix "in case the pump fails."

His problem is that he doesn't want to test/fix his **** so he uses the premix bandaid that only helps foul his plugs faster. What happens when your plugs don't work??? Guess.

texFCturboII

iTrader: (17)

.........what happens?

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

As long as you don't add to much then yes, using omp and premix at same time does help a little with no major downside except cost and effort. Even a lot of premix won't hurt anything except fuel economy and emissions (assuming you don't add an insane amount and lower the octane too much). 2 stroke oil is meant to burn cleanly. Heck, the good ones may have enough detergents to make things even cleaner than w/o it.

Now are the benefits actually worth the effort? That's a better question.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

20K is a drop in the bucket. A brand new engine running with no pre-mix and oil injection only would at least need twice that to begin to start showing deposits.

If your MOP is working properly, you'll never run out of oil injection. Why spend the extra money and time? If you maintain your car properly, you should never need to pre-mix, it wasn't designed for it. Granted - I run pre-mix - but I've eliminated the MOP system for simplification.

Theres a possibility that it may help minimize it - but again - whats the point of using both? Pick one or the other and the engine will have lube. Simple as that. If you're worried about the MOP failing lets exaimine a few things about the system.

The S5 electric one (which I generally don't trust FYI) in the event of failure would trip limp mode on the ECU and the car would be next to un-driveable. In the S4 (which is bullet proof in my experience....take one apart) a failure, although not immediately detecable, wouldn't immedeately lock your engine up due to loss of lube. An extremely picky maintenance person might engage the system every, say 5-10 thousand miles, and see if you indeed do get a trickle to the nozzles. Checked - it works - keep driving.

Here's another angle. My project RX-7 has a haltech. I run decel fuel cut. I also premix with no MOP. That means, when my engine is revved up and begins to decelerate - as soon as the haltech reads a decrease in the RPM - the fuel flow through the injectors is shut off. Therefore, there's also no apex seal lube at that time. Now - yes, we're only talking during low load, low temp situations. But I've torn that engine down and there's no drastic wear to the height of the apex seal, which is what would quickly diminish from no lube.

Sure, if you had no lube at all and spent a day atthe track - you'd have issues. But the point i'm making is that a loss of the MOP wouldn't instantly kill your engine unless you were simply flogging it for a good long while. So if you maintain your **** there's no need for both. Pick one and drive.

Roen

iTrader: (2)

I have an S5, and I run premix and OMP, solely because I have an Rtek, and limp mode is disabled on that ECU. Then again, I only run between 3 - 5 oz a gallon as backup, and really, only when I autox or road course the car. The OMP is still my primary source of lubrication for daily use, plus I check codes with my PDA ever so often.

RotaMan99

Why does the same question keep getting posted over and over again?

If you OMP system has been maintained and is in good working order. Leave it and don't premix.

scrip7

iTrader: (6)

A little FYI, if you were to tear down an engine that used OMP only, you often will see a shiny stripe down the middle of a rotor housing (less wear in this area as a result of the oil injector). On an engine using premix only, there is a more even grayish color across the surface, and noticeably fewer deposits on the rotors.

turbo10th

iTrader: (6)

It does prevent that little wear. There is no real down fall of running both it is just preventive if the omp for some odd reason would fail and to decrease wear. No one can really tell you what to do, you dont have to run both but it is a good idea and can help you engine in the long run. I think pre mixing is a good idea and will most likely start doing along with running my oil pump. I can afford the 2 stroke oil and that few couple mins at the pump and if i forget once awell because i have the stock pump. But you dont have to because the factyory system does work and there have been many stock engines that lasted over 200,000 miles on stock oiling. But with a fresh rebuild and a turbo car i want my enigine to be problem free and last as long as it can and na's should be no different.

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

- I stand behind MMO working just fine as a premix. I will say this only one more time. That's that. Though the stuff is a pricey little bitch.

- 'Run out of steam'? Oh no, darlin', I got tired of the pointlessness of the thread. Like the Banjo Bolt Mod, this debate will never be over until the world spontaneously combusts or we all suffer from heart implosions. Moderate pre-mixing + stock, non-rebuilt stock OMP system = Good teamwork. End of story.

Not everyone on this forum agrees with one another 100% of the time. You nay-sayers need to accept that. Because, and to be quite honest, it's my car. Just like your own cars are yours to maintain in your own fashion.

As far as I'm concerned, this topic is long since dead.

RotaMan99

That shinny stripe is on the exhaust side of the rotor housing where the apex seal picks up the oil and then it gets distributed along the seal where it should be. Since premix does not lubricate the seals directly, there would not be a "shinny" area and would see a "grayish color over everything meaning less lubrication.

deposits are not the reason why the apex seals go on these engines.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

There's no reason to run premix with a perfectly working metering oil pump. The stock pump does a fine job, and there are plenty of high mileage rotaries running quite well using the stock system. I've owned a bunch of them.

However if you are taking the car out for a day at the track, it's certainly not a bad idea to mix in a little 2 stroke oil (not a solvent like MMO) due to the fact you'll be beating on the engine.

And yes, this has been covered 10x a week since this forum came into existance. Like the turbo-NA topics and things already in the FAQ, premix topics are going to start getting closed on a regular basis...

Roen

iTrader: (2)

I just have no idea how MMO became a viable option for premix in the first place......it's not even 2-stroke oil! Is it even TCW-3 certified for use with fuel injectors?

alexdimen

iTrader: (13)

MMO nut-riders:

stop. just stop.

rotaman:

Whether you like to call the lubrication "direct" or "indirect", these terms do not affect it's effectiveness. 2-cycle oil provides superior results, hence it's use in race involved rotaries and AVIATION use rotary engines.

What's the point of using both? To miniminze it and to have a safety net if I forget my bottle of 2-cycle oil.

Here's my train of though: I would rather have only pre-mix, but it is not practical for a DD, since you will inevitably forget to refill your bottle.

The other reason I use both is that I would like the engine to not only last a long time, but maintain better compression during the extent of it's service.

Azaryn15

So... there's absolutely no decrease in performance with pre-mix, correct? Assuming that you're not over saturating the fuel with it...

iox106

iTrader: (1)

Best of both worlds

http://www.jhbperformance.com/products.php
"We have designed a system that allows the use of the stock oil metering pump (OMP) to inject premium 2 stroke oil into the engine. Good quality 2 stroke oil is designed to burn clean and properly lubricate the internals of the combustion chamber in ways that far exceed conventional motor oils. This system allows the use of synthetic oils in the oil pan since this oil is no longer being injected into the engine. This kit includes an engine oil supply block off place, an oil fitting for the OMP, an oil line and an oil reservoir."

Oil Metering System Conversion Kit $45 ea

RotaMan99

2 stroke is very good a lubricating. Its how you go about applying the lubrication that will determin its effectivness. Effectivness is blantly clear when compairing premix to OMP. With the OMP, nice shiny surface. With premix, no shinny surface. How can anyone says premix is more or just as effective? I don't see any 180K mile engines that have been premixed its entire life yet have you?

Race engines usually get torn down more often then DD engines.

Aviation engines require to be torn down as well and are also not subject to high rev racing either.

At this time, there is not enough evidents to confirm this but in a few situations, above has been evident.

This is by far the best option you can do if you want to go 2 stroke injection. Will lubricate much better then premixing.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

But oh NOES! what if your pumps suffers teh failure!!??!

RotaMan99

Statements like these come from owners that do not maintain their engine.

Don't listen to these people!

How many times do I and others have to say this......

If you maintain your OMP system and engine you will not have ANY issues!

What I strongly reccomend, after purchasing a 15+ year old rx7, is replacing the OMP lines and crush washers and rebuilding the OMP. The injectors are fine most of the time I would check to make sure they still function the way they should. The OMP system is very very durable.

I hear crap all the time such as, what if dirt gets in the OMP or what if dirt clogs up the oil injector.

Now those things can ONLY happen if you run without an oil filter, don't change the oil filter and run it out of its service date allowing it to brake down or running without an air filter.

Now stop your whinning and find out how to maintain your engine the proper way.