I knw air does go through the TMIC, I bought my car from a guy that lived on a dirt road. I took the IC off, and in the heat shield, and on the firewall was dirt. So there is some airflow through there. I wish I had taken a picture now.

 

I have an "Options" vid #92 that follows a build up of Amemiya FC 2000 and has Feed FC on the track as well. BOTH of these FCs had the IC mounted just behind the stock radiator position horizontally and it looks like they tilted the Rad. top back toward the engine to do it, so it is not getting heated air- the electric fan pulling air through the rad. at stops and low speeds would cool the IC as well. Both these cars were 450+HP and the Feed FC had the front cut up and tubbed inner front fenders, so they could have put the IC anywhere, but chose the engine bay. I guess you would need a hood vented right in the front to optimize this IC install. What do you guys think of using this IC position on the street, its a compromise of TMIC and FMIC obviously.

 

There is some airflow, but not that much. Not enough to make it as effective as it should be. When I upgrade I'll go FMIC.

jerk_racer@hotmail.com

 

MAN! This is an old thread! I could barely remember it! lol. Alright, someone mentioned that the hood scoop doesn't flow enough air to accomidate a larger intercooler. I have to say I don't agree! a core has to have only air flow coming from a hole that is 28% of its effective area (says, kenne bell the buick majition himself) to be efficient. He did many studys of intercoolers/air ducts and flow caractoristics of core designs. And say the scoop doesn't flow that much air through it, you can always force air through it with cooling fans! Me and a friend actually did a study on the air duct that is going with the SMIC upgrade that I am coming out with. We took the percentage of effective area and divided it my .30 and that turned into cubic inches. so the open for the airduct was that many total inches .

Bryan

 

sorry about the mispelled words, I'll try to revise next time! lol

 

Feared7, so it doesn't matter the IC duct is in a low pressure area at speed. Maybe Kenne was assuming there would be air entering the duct instead of exiting?

 

I do not think you can lower the charged intake temp with a top mount ic because you can not make it any bigger or thicker (limited by the nose scoop opening). I wish you could! It would be an easy upgrade.

Now I will be interested if you can make an front mount IC which is equivalent to an HKS or Greddy design, but at half the price. Use those two as design templates..improves it where you can...simplify the installation process if possible..and cost reduced it. I see those system go for $1200 or so. If you can sell it at less than half the price, I will be the first in line to buy.

Is it possible? Yes...You have to remember that the $1200 cost include shipping from Japan, profit for the company, and profit for the middleman....you cut all that out, you provide a good alternative with good price ($400 to $500)...I will buy.

dewey

 

lol. an intercooler core itself is more than 400 bucks. Maybe a hundred dollar conquest intercooler will do the job for you!

and who told you guys it is a low pressure area beneith the scoop?
So why when you go about 130+ in a t2, your hood sways up and down? Is it that low pressure? It is catching some air.

I have a t70 Garrett/Mitsubishi hybrid, and a Wolf 3d on my t2. I will make a TMIC and show you what the intake temps are! And yes the core can be doubled at the top!

later.

 

Yes, when you run air over a curved surface, it makes a negative pressure. That's how an airplane works. That's why Indy cars have those big wings and underbody venturi tunnels for downforce, without them the thing would go airborne at 230+ mph

 

I'd like to see a stock mount IC upgrade for the TII. I don't have a TII, a friend does, and as far as heat soak, he took his off and sprayed the bottom shield with some hi-temp ceraic paint that withstands up to 1200. That's one way to help with the raising heat from the engine while your sitting at a red-light. If the new Suburu has a top mount IC and M2 just adds a larger core IC to it and makes 300 hp, then I don't see why a TII can't do the same.

Tim Benton

 

Feared 7-Last time I did over 130 in my TII and my hood was down, but not properly latched it popped up to the saftey catch (you bet I slowed down fast and re-aligned the latch.) So that was all the downforce popping it up? Under the hood is a high pressure area due to the heated air from the engine; top speed cars have heavily vented hoods even though it causes higher drag coefficient. On the outside, the high pressure area starts just ahead of the air vent inlets at the base of the winshield-I can't believe the diagram hasn't been posted yet.
Tim B-the Sube is a flat four and the I/C is over the area where the engine crankcase meets the trans bell housing; the heat producing heads and exhaust are all the way to either side and forward- just where vents happen to be in the hood (at least on the 1st gen Impreza, not sure about new). It also does not heat everything under the hood nearly as much as a rotary.

 

the stock tmic is a joke and everyones laughing

 

alright I saw the diagram. I saw how the waves or whatever were swooping up and down showing, I figure, hi and low pressure points. So as an example, you have low pressure points at the mid section of the hood and also over the top of the windshield. So go take a ride in your cars and open up your sunroof. Stick your fingers out about 2 inches obove the opening of the sunroof. Do you feel low pressure??? lol YES! It is the same principle.

Another example of how the intercooler gets air. Let your car idle for a while and heat soak the intercooler, then feel it and see how hot it is. Then hop in and drive it for a few minutes (40+mph) and then stop, pop the hood and feel the intercooler core. If no air was getting to it, it would still be just as hot as it was before. But if the temps are are cooler, the duct is doing its job

I am not saying that is gets as much air as the FMIC, but the TM will get what it needs to be efficient. I will prove my theory right when I do an intake air tem reading with the upgrade. No more tryin to talk physics I am sick writing. I am not saying that you are all wrong, but I have a hard time believing that stuff when everyone has different theories.

 

Just a clarification:

Low pressure doesn't mean "no air", it simply means low pressure. For example, the intake air on an NA engine is low pressure (aka vacuum), but the engine still gets air, right? However, if you can increase the intake air pressure (turbo, blower, ram air, etc.) then the engine gets more performance.

 

The biggest problem with the top-mount is heat soak when stationary. Say you're sitting at the lights minding your own when a ricey Honda pulls alongside. I quick glance across and it's all on. At the green you both give it full right boot, but what you don't realise is all the air in your engine bay has been heated up by the engine and risen up through the only place it can, the intercooler and hood scoop, turning the intercooler into an "interheater" and causing your intake temps to skyrocket. Your worked engine was just below detonating before, but with the high intake temps it pings its head of and bits of apex seal are shot onto the road as you coast to a halt!
A bit dramatic I know, but the theory can be proven easily with a thermocouple temp probe mounted between the IC and TB.

 

Heat soak can be solved only in 1 way. Keep air moving through the core. I have an account with SPAL INC. I will try to supply cooling fans at cost when people order the TMIC upgrade. That day will come after a group buy on the 3rd gen Supercooler.

hey any cool ideas on a web page I am building? It will be advertised on the forum when the time is right.

take care

 

It is hard to make a car pass crash tests with a FMIC. THis is why you see TMICs. I agree, TMIC suck (mainly because of heatsoak)
You can get the same response from a FMIC.

Here's the deal. I want a TMIC for a track car. However, for the drag strip..... I'd go with a FMIC.

I saw 10 PSI of boost one time in my car. Naturally. I usually see 8, 7 even 6 PSI at its worst with heat soak. now, 6-10 PSI fluctualtion really angers me when I am racing a porsche carrera or a mustang, etc.

I will get a FMIC before this summer and a big aluminum radiator.

Someone said that a FMIC would block the flow of air to the radiator.... I don't see how if you got a big giant fan spinning and pulling air through the radiator. anyone?

Detonation is my main worry from heatsoak. That is why I want to replace the TMIC with a FMIC and the radiator with a big fat aluminum one right before summer hits (THE HEAT!).

Then I'll be CL !! =)

What is up with this server??!!?! If I double posted. sorry. =(

 

I had the HKS FMIC kit, and I sold it because it blocked too much air on the track for my Project 86. I even had a Black magic e-fan, and a griffin 22X19" AL radiator. When I went back to the stock TMIC, temps were beautiful. I mean I had temps of over 225 water and 245 oil! I am in for sure on an upgraded TMIC, as that would work great for what I need. When I get one, I plan to add some sort of addition to my stock scoop to add even more air into the TMIC

FYI, I can pull off the track after a 30 min run and put my hand on the stock IC and it isn't hot due to my constant running at speed.

 

Good thinking Dave! =) I would have done the same as you. TMIC for the track b/c you are constantly moving. My temps were very low @ Buttonwillow raceway this weekend. It was great fun though! I was boosting 10 PSI naturally in the morning. God, it was insane how hard the car pulled in 2nd & 3rd. It was very cold outside. =)

I guess you answered my question about the FMIC blocking the radiator from cooling.

 

I forgot to tell you I have a misting kit to go along with the cooling fan kit. It will be an called and acessories kit. That should help cure the heat soaking problem a bit!

 

I'll call it the Heat eliminator kit, how bout that??

 

ok, i know this is a very old thread but...

people with fmic's....i have one on my tII and was wondering where you relocated your overflow tanks. i have had mine out for about 6months and i am getting sick of filling up the rad every time i go to get in the car. any info would be good. here is a pic of my friends convertable with the same set up i have (notice the IC in that 'slot' where the expantion tank goes). he has since just zip tied it in there behind the rad next to the electric fan, but i still have the belt driven fan and have less room. do you think i can just use like an old quart of oil for the hose to sit in. or do i need something larger? it seems it doesnt 'expand' to much and this may work. any suguestions for placement?

 

another thing. in this pic there is no air filter on the car. just the MAS, so where you see it now...it doesnt go there perminatly. the air filter does

 

How about running a custom a/c system? Instead of running air through the interior, run a intercooler with tanks on it as evaporator, and run the system on a sanden aftermarket compressor, with r134a? That might be able to pull some REALLY low temps.
Sean Cathcart

 

Bryan,

Anyword on the core size of the TMIC in your kit? What dimensions compared to stock? The TMIC/FMIC is an endless debate, much like the synthetic oil use debate. Make the TMIC and people will buy it.

Tim Benton