Is Twin Turbo a 87 NA Possible?
06-13-10, 04:19 PM
#1
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Is Twin Turbo a 87 NA Possible?
one of my friends works at a Toyota Dealer and he got the stock turbos off a 95 Supra. I know a custom manifold/header. I wouldnt want to produce 1200+hp though either like Supras do. I thought it would be different. I would get the TII intake and all so it wouldnt look stupid. Im just throwing this out there to see if its possible.
06-13-10, 04:29 PM
#3
Anything's possible with enough money, fabrication, and know-how. Will it be easy, cheap, practical, etc? No.
If you're dead-set on twin turbos, look into using the twins from a 13B-REW, since they already have an exhaust mani that bolts to a 13B block (you'll likely have issues with intake mani clearance, however). Also, IMO, if you're not planning on actually having them function sequentially, it's a huge waste of time. I'm also assuming that you're aware that you'll need to run a full standalone ECU.
If you're dead-set on twin turbos, look into using the twins from a 13B-REW, since they already have an exhaust mani that bolts to a 13B block (you'll likely have issues with intake mani clearance, however). Also, IMO, if you're not planning on actually having them function sequentially, it's a huge waste of time. I'm also assuming that you're aware that you'll need to run a full standalone ECU.
06-13-10, 04:42 PM
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I do realize the standalone. I would like to do this but would my stock s4 engine with 18k miles on it hold up to more boost? Id rather run high boost and get the full power from them.
06-13-10, 04:56 PM
#7
The Big Ugly!
You may want to just use a properly sized single set-up, save in cost & fabrication if needed. Unless you are set on the twin turbo idea, I see no reason for it.
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06-13-10, 05:01 PM
#8
Look around here at some of the 400+ setups. Its not going to be cheaper than a turbo swap.
06-13-10, 05:01 PM
#9
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You want to spend less than a TII swap and you want 450+ hp??? Good luck with that. My hats off if you if you actually succeed. You'll still need the TII trans, d/s, rear end and half shafts too.
06-13-10, 05:25 PM
#10
The Big Ugly!
You must have posted this while I posting, but really man as the others said I think you are going in the wrong direction. To achieve the numbers you seek in the fashion in which you want will not be cheap. First you need to find out your actual budget, then start getting prices of what you need, that way you can decide if it's the right way to go. There's no sense in starting something you may not be able to finish due to lack of funds or time.
06-13-10, 07:33 PM
#12
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Hmmm... I've got both TT mainifolds from the REW and 20B; complete with turbos.
You could try that setup, but also look into the rebuild cost, regardless of the source of the snails.
You could try that setup, but also look into the rebuild cost, regardless of the source of the snails.
06-13-10, 08:09 PM
#13
I've already proposed how to do this. I believe the FD twins can be made to fit with a spacer and some blockoff plates... some people are test fitting them at this point. You will have to run the proper oil and coolant lines.
So for non sequential...
If you want to try it sequentially, you will at the very least need an rpm activated switch. See this thread post #34: https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/fd-stock-turbo-fc-885834/page2/
So for non sequential...
as long as they don't hit the LIM (I can't say I've measured) I don't see why they wouldn't work. you just need custom oil and coolant lines and an EMS that doesn't require the AFM (or some crazy intake piping). you could even run them sequentially if you know what you were doing. but it's the whole "if you have to ask..." deal. The fact that you made a thread about this does not inspire confidence.
If you're really serious about this, here's what you do. You get a set of used twins and an FD exhaust manifold. Remove/permanently open the turbo control and precontrol doors. On the wastegate, use a precontrol door and port the passageway for solid boost control. Run custom oil return lines--one to the front cover (factory location), and the other you will have to run right into the oil pan by welding in a flange. You may need to get some flanges machined that will go to the turbos themselves (oil feed and return flanges on the turbos). I am not sure off the top of my head whether the FD flanges are a standard type or not. I remember them looking like typical T25 style but I could be wrong.
Feed the oil from the front iron (stock T2 feed location) and either split it off to the two turbos (not sure how well that would work) or tap the other oil feed from the oil pressure sending unit location or from an oil filter pedestel sandwich plate. You have to be really careful about the fittings and the routing of the lines to prevent leaks. The coolant feed comes from the T2 LIM, the stock location that normally has a hard line bolted to it for the stock turbo. Take a split air blockoff plate (same flange as factory water feed line). Drill a hole and weld in a 6AN fitting to the blockoff plate. Connect a 6AN tee/splitter to the fitting. Bolt the blockoff plate to the LIM and you now have your coolant feed source.
For the coolant return, you can run one to the factory location by welding an aluminum 6AN flange on to the barb that's already on the waterpump housing. The other coolant return you might be able to tee into the heater hose return at the bottom end tank of the rad (not sure how well that would work). Another possible option is to remove the two terminal water sensor for the subzero start assist at the bottom of the rad and return the coolant for one of the turbos there. You have to be really careful about the fittings and the routing of the lines to prevent leaks.
Use the factory Y pipe for the compressor outlet but remove the charge control valve and plug the holes with JB weld. Boost is controlled with the wastegate valve, pre control does nothing. Then fab intercooler piping. Modify a downpipe that is supposed to be for an FD.
As long as there is LIM and strut tower clearance (and I'm not sure about that), it can be done.
If you're really serious about this, here's what you do. You get a set of used twins and an FD exhaust manifold. Remove/permanently open the turbo control and precontrol doors. On the wastegate, use a precontrol door and port the passageway for solid boost control. Run custom oil return lines--one to the front cover (factory location), and the other you will have to run right into the oil pan by welding in a flange. You may need to get some flanges machined that will go to the turbos themselves (oil feed and return flanges on the turbos). I am not sure off the top of my head whether the FD flanges are a standard type or not. I remember them looking like typical T25 style but I could be wrong.
Feed the oil from the front iron (stock T2 feed location) and either split it off to the two turbos (not sure how well that would work) or tap the other oil feed from the oil pressure sending unit location or from an oil filter pedestel sandwich plate. You have to be really careful about the fittings and the routing of the lines to prevent leaks. The coolant feed comes from the T2 LIM, the stock location that normally has a hard line bolted to it for the stock turbo. Take a split air blockoff plate (same flange as factory water feed line). Drill a hole and weld in a 6AN fitting to the blockoff plate. Connect a 6AN tee/splitter to the fitting. Bolt the blockoff plate to the LIM and you now have your coolant feed source.
For the coolant return, you can run one to the factory location by welding an aluminum 6AN flange on to the barb that's already on the waterpump housing. The other coolant return you might be able to tee into the heater hose return at the bottom end tank of the rad (not sure how well that would work). Another possible option is to remove the two terminal water sensor for the subzero start assist at the bottom of the rad and return the coolant for one of the turbos there. You have to be really careful about the fittings and the routing of the lines to prevent leaks.
Use the factory Y pipe for the compressor outlet but remove the charge control valve and plug the holes with JB weld. Boost is controlled with the wastegate valve, pre control does nothing. Then fab intercooler piping. Modify a downpipe that is supposed to be for an FD.
As long as there is LIM and strut tower clearance (and I'm not sure about that), it can be done.
If you want to try it sequentially, you will at the very least need an rpm activated switch. See this thread post #34: https://www.rx7club.com/single-turbo-rx-7s-23/fd-stock-turbo-fc-885834/page2/
06-13-10, 08:15 PM
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What about just using one? the one for low speed high torque? or the high speed low torque? my budget can be extended until I have everything I need. I will buy as I have extra cash and mark items off the list. He was going to give them to me and the turbos are like new so I thought I could see if I could use them on the 7.
06-13-10, 08:45 PM
#15
What about just using one? the one for low speed high torque? or the high speed low torque? my budget can be extended until I have everything I need. I will buy as I have extra cash and mark items off the list. He was going to give them to me and the turbos are like new so I thought I could see if I could use them on the 7.
Then do a single turbo setup.
If you think you'll get 400+hp for less than $2000, you really need to do some research. Be prepared to shell out $7000+ for your goals.
06-13-10, 08:53 PM
#16
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Hes tried to sell them for 75 but noone in this small town either has money to spend on turbos or they jus dont want to turbo their car and spend more money. 400hp is my goal when im done doing everything to the car I want, not from a turbo swap. my goal from this is to get close to 200.
06-13-10, 08:56 PM
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dude, i drive a car with the 2jz in it. no. it will never happen. max on stock twins for the 3 liter 2jz is right at 350hp. after that they're so inefficient its not worth it. not only that but the twins are tiny, and not as reliable as some other options. if i were you, and i was dead set on doing a budget turbo build, i would reassess my power needs and determine whether i could reach that power reliably on that budget. if you want, i'll trade you my 2jzge with two r154 transmissions and an auto and a 6 puck clutch and pressure plate for your 13b and trans + a bit of cash on top. 212 crank hp, and super easy to boost. it'll be cheaper, and you'll reach your power goal in under 3 grand if you shop around and play your cards right.
06-14-10, 12:23 PM
#19
lol, i love the dreamers here. 400-500HP for less than a turbo2 swap? i love how people continue to think there is some easy button that no one else has seemed to find on these cars yet. for that power level you are looking at well over $6k to get started.
my suggestion is don't even think about messing with those twins. even the 3rd gen twins which are a bolt on for a 13B are too much hassle and expense to make work in a 2nd gen. either look at the T2 swap or look at the turboing an n/a threads.
my suggestion is don't even think about messing with those twins. even the 3rd gen twins which are a bolt on for a 13B are too much hassle and expense to make work in a 2nd gen. either look at the T2 swap or look at the turboing an n/a threads.
06-14-10, 01:34 PM
#21
F**K THE SYSTEM!!
Well wheres that thread of the n/a 6 port turbo that made 500+
Wait.. Was it a 6 port plus semi-preripheral.. 8 port? hehe.
On a pinned and ported motor.
Either way that Rican had used housing and everything. and mad eit on pump gas to top everytihing off.
FOunD it. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...highlight=port
Wait.. Was it a 6 port plus semi-preripheral.. 8 port? hehe.
On a pinned and ported motor.
Either way that Rican had used housing and everything. and mad eit on pump gas to top everytihing off.
FOunD it. https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.p...highlight=port
06-14-10, 01:56 PM
#22
IMO the TII swap is the way to go. If you do happen to get your engine running with twin turbo setup, you'll be replacing everything after the engine in a short time, and a short time later you'll be in for a rebuild. You won't have any sort of reliability.
If your car is in good running condition as it sits, you can offset the (roughly $2,000) in swap costs (engine, trans, rear end, drive shaft, half shafts, ecu, etc.) by selling your NA parts. If your engine is in good shape you should be able to recoop around 500 or so for the short block alone, and a few hundred more for the rest of the parts.
So you're looking at around $1200.00 total once everything is said and done, and it can be completed by a first timer with about 40 hrs. of work, or 20 hrs. for you and a friend to do it. You will need an engine hoist ($100-200) at harbor freight, and I'd suggest a leveler $30.00. Other then those tools, a good socket set, and tons of reading on the forums, fsm, etc.
You'll have more time/money in building your machine the way you are wanting. Just my 2 cents. I just recently completed my first NA to TII swap and I'm about ready to get another to do it again. I think I'd like to try a vert next time around.
If your car is in good running condition as it sits, you can offset the (roughly $2,000) in swap costs (engine, trans, rear end, drive shaft, half shafts, ecu, etc.) by selling your NA parts. If your engine is in good shape you should be able to recoop around 500 or so for the short block alone, and a few hundred more for the rest of the parts.
So you're looking at around $1200.00 total once everything is said and done, and it can be completed by a first timer with about 40 hrs. of work, or 20 hrs. for you and a friend to do it. You will need an engine hoist ($100-200) at harbor freight, and I'd suggest a leveler $30.00. Other then those tools, a good socket set, and tons of reading on the forums, fsm, etc.
You'll have more time/money in building your machine the way you are wanting. Just my 2 cents. I just recently completed my first NA to TII swap and I'm about ready to get another to do it again. I think I'd like to try a vert next time around.
06-15-10, 01:48 AM
#23
Well I've talked to "arghx" about this..
I have 93 R1 NON sect. Twin turbos. Also have the exhaust manifold.
I modified my LIM to hopefully clear the turbo system. Tuesday and wednesday is the first day in over 3 months that I have been able to work on this car. (S4 na) in about 12 hours I will find out if this will fit. I am sorry for jacking this thread. I just wanted to shed some light on this topic.
I have 93 R1 NON sect. Twin turbos. Also have the exhaust manifold.
I modified my LIM to hopefully clear the turbo system. Tuesday and wednesday is the first day in over 3 months that I have been able to work on this car. (S4 na) in about 12 hours I will find out if this will fit. I am sorry for jacking this thread. I just wanted to shed some light on this topic.
06-15-10, 09:00 AM
#24
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I have been wanting to do a TII swap but the twins came up as a option. and once again im not looking for 400hp right now i know thats a **** ton of money to make the engine have. im not that dumb guys.
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