tweakit ITB kit on s5 na streetported block
07-04-07, 12:25 AM
#26
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Trying to picture a manifold like you describe coldfire. Would that have one TB for each end housing (and a dedicated intake tract split for the two secondary ports), and one TB for intermediate housing (and dedicated intake tract split for the two primary ports) leading to 3 TB's overall? This seems like a usefull design from a tuning standpoint let alone the ramcharging air effect you might get. If anyone knows of a manifold like this a link would be greatly appreciated 
.
Thanks for the additional info Sonicrat, and sorry to hear about the car!!! Where did you store it that it had all those parts ripped off? Your coment on the phenolic spacers moving your torque band about 250rpm is bang on with what RB advertises for their affect... and they say 3 can be stacked on top of eachother... giving a fairly decent effect (so long as its still squeezable under the hood).
Had the tank off my bike today while adjusting the throttle freeplay and was checking out its intake design (2005 zx10r). It uses a ram-air fed plenum with ITB's and different size velocity stacks. The two center stacks are about twice as tall as the side stacks. Also these stacks are curved towards the ram-air source presumably to help with intake velocity? I've never seen a setup like this on a car before with curved velocity stacks (facing the air source). Anyone know if a rotary could benefit from this design?
I also notice that the most popular brand of after market velocity stacks are not curved, but share the same height differences (well the outside ones look a bit shorter actually) as stock ones. ( http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prodk95.html) Could the curve just be for noise reduction? Not trying to get off track here just trying to find out all that I can regarding ITB's and what works with them before diving into this.
.Thanks for the additional info Sonicrat, and sorry to hear about the car!!! Where did you store it that it had all those parts ripped off? Your coment on the phenolic spacers moving your torque band about 250rpm is bang on with what RB advertises for their affect... and they say 3 can be stacked on top of eachother... giving a fairly decent effect (so long as its still squeezable under the hood).
Had the tank off my bike today while adjusting the throttle freeplay and was checking out its intake design (2005 zx10r). It uses a ram-air fed plenum with ITB's and different size velocity stacks. The two center stacks are about twice as tall as the side stacks. Also these stacks are curved towards the ram-air source presumably to help with intake velocity? I've never seen a setup like this on a car before with curved velocity stacks (facing the air source). Anyone know if a rotary could benefit from this design?
I also notice that the most popular brand of after market velocity stacks are not curved, but share the same height differences (well the outside ones look a bit shorter actually) as stock ones. ( http://www.factorypro.com/Prod_Pages/prodk95.html) Could the curve just be for noise reduction? Not trying to get off track here just trying to find out all that I can regarding ITB's and what works with them before diving into this.
07-04-07, 11:27 PM
#27
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i was making more of a comment about runner separation, and not the number of TBs specifically. after all, you can pretty much have as many TBs as you want depending on the UIM that you use.
i think your 3 TB idea is along the lines of what i was mentioning, since it is actually similar to what the stock TB uses.
i'll just try to clarify what i was meaning. you have 4 runners in total, which is what you will have no matter what way you go.
but the idea is that the 2 secondary runners are "connected", as are the 2 primary runners. so basically there is a path for intake air charge to go from the rear secondary ports to the front secondary ports. same with the primary ports. the primary and secondary runner pairs are separate.
in addition to this, and this is where the TBs come into play, you can have separate TBs for both the secondary runner pairs and primary runner pairs. what this allows is for you to "stage" the primary and secondary intake. you could leave the secondary runners closed until a certain point.
you may have already seen this, but i've attached below some info about the stock NA intake manifold. one is from the training manual describing the "dynamic supercharging" effect. the stock manifold and TB operate just as i described, and the S5 intake (the other diagrams) also takes it a step further by incorporating a variable intake length. it's quite interesting, on a friend's street ported S4 NA he actually was able to log 0.5 psi of positive pressure. the stock manifold is a great design...for stock ports. i would like to see a similar design optimized for something like bridge ports, as i think there is quite a lot of advantages there. but the nature of a bridge port i think changes things quite a bit.
i think your 3 TB idea is along the lines of what i was mentioning, since it is actually similar to what the stock TB uses.
i'll just try to clarify what i was meaning. you have 4 runners in total, which is what you will have no matter what way you go.
but the idea is that the 2 secondary runners are "connected", as are the 2 primary runners. so basically there is a path for intake air charge to go from the rear secondary ports to the front secondary ports. same with the primary ports. the primary and secondary runner pairs are separate.
in addition to this, and this is where the TBs come into play, you can have separate TBs for both the secondary runner pairs and primary runner pairs. what this allows is for you to "stage" the primary and secondary intake. you could leave the secondary runners closed until a certain point.
you may have already seen this, but i've attached below some info about the stock NA intake manifold. one is from the training manual describing the "dynamic supercharging" effect. the stock manifold and TB operate just as i described, and the S5 intake (the other diagrams) also takes it a step further by incorporating a variable intake length. it's quite interesting, on a friend's street ported S4 NA he actually was able to log 0.5 psi of positive pressure. the stock manifold is a great design...for stock ports. i would like to see a similar design optimized for something like bridge ports, as i think there is quite a lot of advantages there. but the nature of a bridge port i think changes things quite a bit.
07-05-07, 09:28 AM
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It really is too bad that none of the aftermarket companys seem to take the time to develop an in take with these flow dynamics in mind. I guess the research invested wouldnt be proportional to the price that people are willing to pay.
Unless something really interesting comes up i'm putting through an order for the tweakit weber IDA LIM and ITB's over the weekend. Been thinking of using the TII hood for CIA but also starting to wonder if rain might be a major issue since it seems like alot would be forced right down the throat of the engine.
Any ideas on how to minimize this, or if it will even be a problem? Thanks for the input!
Unless something really interesting comes up i'm putting through an order for the tweakit weber IDA LIM and ITB's over the weekend. Been thinking of using the TII hood for CIA but also starting to wonder if rain might be a major issue since it seems like alot would be forced right down the throat of the engine.
Any ideas on how to minimize this, or if it will even be a problem? Thanks for the input!
07-10-07, 11:01 AM
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Went ahead and ordered the Weber IDA LIM and the tweakit 55mm to 50mm tapered TB today. Opted to try my own hand at fabricating since I think I can build a nicer TB than the one on tweakit for less than 300 bucks. Alluminum bends real easy and i'm sure I can find someone around me who can weld a pre-fabed (by me) box together if I just show them what needs to be joined.
Dont think I'm gunna use the TII Hoodscoop for CAI since this will just make it more complicated to go turbo later and waste any fabrication i do now. Plus I dont want my shiny new motor to drown, lol.
Also ordered 6 of the RB phenolic spacers so I can play with runner length a bit and see what works the best with my setup, then maybe fab a little something later on so I'm not stuck with the ugly spacers in my intake manifold forever. Although I understand that they are good for keeping intake charge temps a tad lower
.
Anyway sorry for all the long posts but thanks alot for the help, will start a new thread with some pics when things start arriving and the buildup begins (still stuck in the blasting / powdercoating phase of things atm... damn this cleaning / prep stuff can be time consuming!)
Dont think I'm gunna use the TII Hoodscoop for CAI since this will just make it more complicated to go turbo later and waste any fabrication i do now. Plus I dont want my shiny new motor to drown, lol.
Also ordered 6 of the RB phenolic spacers so I can play with runner length a bit and see what works the best with my setup, then maybe fab a little something later on so I'm not stuck with the ugly spacers in my intake manifold forever. Although I understand that they are good for keeping intake charge temps a tad lower
.Anyway sorry for all the long posts but thanks alot for the help, will start a new thread with some pics when things start arriving and the buildup begins (still stuck in the blasting / powdercoating phase of things atm... damn this cleaning / prep stuff can be time consuming!)
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