slo

iTrader: (1)

I have been thinking about this for a while, although it doesn't currently apply to me as I have a 13b-re with a big FMIC.

Could you weld plates across the top and bottom of the intercooler core, and insulate it with heat reflective tape or similar, then add a couple of fitting for incomming and outgoing water for a smal radiator in the front of the car. With an electic pump of the correct size ad a small dump tank somewere.

any thoughts.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Yeah I suppose it would work well until the water heated up too much....

But Im guessing that piping a rad for the water for the intercooler would be more work then just running the I/C up to the front.

slo

iTrader: (1)

Why would it be more work, your thinking of running 2 inch hoses, I saw a 700 hp buick GN street car with a huge air to water intercooler the hoses where like -8 or maybe -10. Preventing heat soak is what the insulation would be for.

I don't think you have ever installed a custom FMIC, this would be magnitudes easier.

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

I just gave you an opinion. No need to jump to (incorrect) conclusions.

The only reason Im saying that is beacuse the main reason a person would want to keep the TMIC would be to not have to plumb anything up to the front to block the rad. There's other reasons yes, but thats the main one in my mind.

Now, the last time I put in a front mount. I don't ever recall purchasing an electric water pump, wiring it, putting in a thermostat, adding custom tanks to the small TMIC, purchasing AN fittings and line, purchasing a rad, mounting a rad, plumbing the rad......

Now, don't take offense to that (as you seem to be from that comment). It will work, Ive seen many water/air coolers and water has EXTREMLY high thremal effciency, Im just saying that it would a little more work then a front mount in simple design. Not to mention the fact that no one's ever done it, so you may have to adjust tank volume, pump speed, rad effciency in order to make it work better then a tried and true front mount.

Edit; question also, was the water/air cooler on the buick you saw mounted RIGHT ontop of the engine?

slo

iTrader: (1)

I never took offense, you read too much into my comment.

Have you installed a custom FMIC, as plubed in an ebay spearco etc with custom pluming. I'm not talking about a gready kit.

On the buick it was actually mounted really close to engine, not right ontop, but close.

A small radiator in front of the well radiator could be half the frontal surface area of of the gready FMIC kits. It would be far easier to mount and chearper. A MC radiator would be perfect (50- 70 on ebay). Running lines isn't an issue, you could use heater hose, and barbed fittings. It isn't like the thing is going to see even 20PSI (water pressure), an overflow on the dump tank would be good.

controlling the pump is the part I havn't yet worked out, bit I bet someone has, just not on this forum.

slo

iTrader: (1)

I guess I am not the first person to have thought of this, posted by rice racing on the single turbo forum "

Absolute best thing you can do to it is keep top mount, jacket it and turn it into a W to A with small front heat exchanger (easy to do). It will perform better than the biggest FMIC and have heaps more responce and power "

classicauto

iTrader: (3)

Neither was I

I installed a Godspeed FD intercooler with modified endtanks and custom piping that runs through the rad support on both sides. Saved about 4 feet of piping or so. It wasn't THAT hard. The core is mounted underneath the hoodlatch and I still managed to be able to utilize the factory upper rad shrouds after the install.

But I honestly think you would run into more problems with that setup on the stock top mount. Simply being that it will still heat soak dramatically when the car isn't moving, even with insulation. And - to me - converting a standard I/C to a water/air I/C is quite a bit of work in itself.

But go for it - Ill be interested to hear how it works out....

slo

iTrader: (1)

Nice,, did you get to keep the stock bumper support? I can't really imagine were the extra 4 feet of piping would go.

"But I honestly think you would run into more problems with that setup on the stock top mount. Simply being that it will still heat soak dramatically when the car isn't moving, even with insulation. And - to me - converting a standard I/C to a water/air I/C is quite a bit of work in itself."

Keep in mind that you would no longer need air flowing through the IC so you could insulate the crap out of it. Fully insulated I don't think it would heatsoak much. I think it would heatsoak less than the stock IC.

As I said I have a 13b-re so unless I build a motor with S-5 T2 manifolds on the 13b-re block, its not going to happen. I would love to do just that. So that I could at least appear Smog legal once every 2 years.

Node

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I've just barely started looking into this.
Rice was replying to my post about my HKS TMIC.

And it has been done before on RX7s. Cartech used to make them for T2s back in the day.

Madrx7racer

are you using this car as a drag car, autocross, street??

a WATER to AIR IC would be better for Drag because the ice water would cool the air below ambient temperature and you can replace the water between runs.

for autocross and Street driving it would be HARMFULL considering the positioning of the stock TMIC. I THINK ambient air would have a hard time COOLING the heatsoaked IC with warm water.....explain how you are going to MAKE this IC and where you would use the heatshield in order to avoid heatsoaking.....and explain to me how why you believe it will heatsoak LESS than the STOCK TMIC?


I see nothing beneficial from this idea EXCEPT for drag application.........and drag racing is boring.

Node

iTrader: (1)

Why would it not work on the street? I think thats where it would be ideal (because its different w/ drag racing where you fill it with icewater first)
You're not in boost all that much, so its just running water through the radiator and through the intercooler. Not really heating up all that much.

Madrx7racer

i think I need to see how this would be set up...............i think i'm visualizing something different

Node

iTrader: (1)

radiator for the water to air intercooler in front of your normal radiator, then the pump and then the IC. Maybe a honda rad would work good
You could have a resevoir if you wanted, this might help w/ cooling as long as it doesnt heatsoak itself.

This is all just theory on how i think it should work.

Madrx7racer

how much would all this crap weigh?

Node

iTrader: (1)

no idea.
not sure on capacity but water is what, 8lbs/gallon? the tmic is already there, add some small alum setions to box it in, some bungs. a few maybe 4 or 5ft lines for each side (feed and return) a radiator.....a water pump. the wiring is negligible.
i dont think it would add much, maybe 15-20lbs w/o the water over just a top mount? This is purely guessing though

On my car though, I'm not worried about weight, gonna rock full interior, stereo, ps/ac, reclinable seats.
The only place I'm cutting weight is in the wheels/brakes/suspension.
Other than that, I'm just trying not to add anything excessive, and maybe keep it all centered or at least balanced from left side to right
-Ben Martin

slo

iTrader: (1)

The cooling system on my Zx11 is way less than a gallon. I think whatever radiator would fit, plus as a few quarts extra in a tank to seperate air. The tank could go in front under the headlight to seperate it from the engine bay.

Node

iTrader: (1)

yeah, cooling system on a rx7 is what, 2 gallons? maybe 2.5 at most

Madrx7racer

i can see how lighter wheels would help, but what lightweight brakes or suspension are you talking about? In the end the weight of the car as a whole will affect braking and handling......

I wouldn't do it Just because it is much simpler to do the FMIC (piping and packaging weighs 11 lbs the core is a good 10-15 lbs) and no other fittings or other radiators.............

Node

iTrader: (1)

suspension sorta evens itself out, you can't do much to cut weight there.
I'm just saying im cutting it whre it really counts
wheels are gonna be about 10lbs lighter than stock per corner, brakes are just gonna be FD alloy calipers vs t2 cast iron

Madrx7racer

*****.....you're keeping you AC and heat??????? pffffffffffffffffffft

slo

iTrader: (1)

My zx11 radiator is about 2 pounds. I just weighed it with a fish scale ( I have an extra) I think you could be within 8 pounds of the weight of an installed FMIC, including the water. I think it could also be done slightly cheaper than a FMIC which seems to be minimum 350. And the best thing would be the stealth aspect if done right it would allmost look stock.

slo

iTrader: (1)

T2 front calipers arent cast iron there aluminum.

rotarydelight

Doesnt Water Make Things Rust?

slo

iTrader: (1)

distiled water plus redline water wetter, or plus antifreez if in a cold climate.

And only iron based metals rust, the entire system would be aluminum.

Madrx7racer

got mine for 205 shipped ( core and piping KIT)........cheaper than the old FMIC setup i was building.