JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

I have been away from working on my turbo vert for a good many years...but I may be back. I don't know.

Short story is my father is moving on from his unmolested 91 vert. It's been repainted a few years ago but other than that it is untouched. Been garaged or under car port it's whole life. Top has no tears, seats also no tears. Really in excellent shape. I believe 80k miles or so. I have had a turbo vert for a good many years. I did the turbo swap the right way. Full S5 turbo drivetrain. Trans, drive shaft with a S4 LSD. FD fuel pump, upgraded injectors, RB REV TII full exhaust. Engine has needed a rebuild going on 5 yrs or so now. I had some serious health issues which kept me away from working on the car.

I'm trying to decide whether to allow an immaculate vert to leave the family. Buy it and rebuild his N/A engine as a turbo, swap all my turbo goodies over, have it tuned with appropriate engine management and sell my shell and other parts. Or of course buy it and keep it stock, getting rid of my turbo vert.

Keeping both my turbo vert and his vert aren't an option due to space. I own two cars, plus I have a vehicle provided by my employer. I have a 2 car garage which currenlty is only able to house one car due to a horrible woodworking bug I have caught. I could temporarily own both verts long enough to swap my drivetrain into the N/A..but I can't own both for an extended time. I have no interest in finding storage for a car.

I've been away from rotaries for 5 yrs, maybe more actually. I'm told by the rotary people I know not to swap my father's vert. That it's worth more as-is than it would be with all my turbo goodies..and I do have a decent amount of goodies. OEM hood, Mazdaspeed hood scoop, side skirts, replica front lip. JDM fogs, Infini strut bar, all the appropriate aftermarket but not at all rare gauges.

My turbo vert has gotten a little rough over the years. It needs a new top, floor boards have started rusting. small dent on driver side rear wheel well, dent on passenger door, engine lost compression on the front rotor on all faces. I just don't know if I have the interest in the work it would take on that car. BUT, I may pull the engine, start getting my hands greasy and reconnect to something I used to love.

I do have interest in making my father's vert my new turbo vert. Rebuilding his engine and getting appropriate engine management tuned, that would be my ideal weekend fun car. Hell it would probably be the personal vehicle I drive 3 seasons. I drive my company vehicle daily for work. My personal car is really only driven on weekends and other days off. However I'm told dad's car is more valuable as-is and I don't have a lot of interest in owning and driving it as an N/A.

So hello, I'm curious to see how many are still on the forums.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

i lol'd....

imo you should either keep the nice vert and build it the way you want, and sell the rest off,
or sell the nice vert and part out the rest.

diabolical1

iTrader: (3)

i think you might have an idea of what you actually want to do.

your dad's car probably is worth more stock. what i've seen just casually looking around certainly supports that. however, if you plan to take possession of it and keep it in place of your car, then it's worth and condition have no meaning outside of your immediate benefit (of having a cleaner car). from your statements, it sounds like you have more interest in building from fresh than you have in refreshing your car.

WondrousBread

At least near me, a turbo vert would be worth more than a stock vert due to the value of the turbo drivetrain. As long as you're okay with selling it to someone who is going to part it to put the drivetrain in their coupe, that is.

This may not be the case depending on the price and availability of turbo parts near you.

Also just IMO, you should turbo swap the cleaner vert. Don't worry about the value, worry about enjoying it.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Yes, I think it will be an all or none kind of thing. Rebuild, swapping drivetrains, and investing in some engine management and a tune and then having my turbo body parts paint matched is worth the investment. But sourcing engine parts for my turbo rebuild, all the body work and a new top plus engine management and a tune. If I start spending that much I'm sinking the same type of money I"d spend on a major home improvement project. I'd like to add onto my garage to accommodate woodworking, I'd like magically make my gravel drive a concrete one.Hell I have a whole list of home projects which would add to the value of my home in a greater way than I'd sell my turbo vert for after it was done.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Yes, I've been eyeballing my father's vert for a good many years waiting for him to want to move on from it.

Regarding used car values, I think that bubble is going to burst and even if it doesn't, the verts selling for $8k have 1/2 to 1/3 fewer miles than my father's. They all seem to be on bringatrailer which requires a few hundred in listing fees as well as 5% kickback to them once the car sells. I don't have enough interest to keep an N/A vert for decades and hope it becomes a rare enough car to be worth big bucks. So the difference between a well built turbo vert and his stock vert really isn't that great...a couple thousand maybe?

Plus as mentioned in my above reply. Once I start spending enough to get my turbo vert rebuilt, body work, repainted, new top, etc I'm starting to spend the same amount as I would on a home projects which have a much greater financial benefit.

JerryLH3

iTrader: (11)

It seems to be the way you are leaning already, but sounds like there is sentimental value in keeping your dad's vert, but making it your own. Financially, maybe not the best route, but it doesn't sound like that is the most pressing issue here. I think a turbo vert done the "right" way, much like you already did yours, can be more valuable than a stock one. Stock ones are easy to find, and like you said the higher dollar ones on BaT are usually low mileage.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

the weird thing about pricing is that the cars and used part prices are way up, but new parts almost cost the same as they did 10 years ago.
so if you decided to sell everything, the unmolested vert sells for whatever it sells for, and then the turbo vert if it has a full S5 drivetrain would probably bring the same money, even with a dead engine
to go the other way, i'm going to rebuild the engine in my car later this year, and i'm pretty sure i can sell the old stuff for enough to make the new engine pretty cheap.

Pete_89T2

iTrader: (4)

I think the answer really depends on how committed you are to tackling what amounts to a pretty major resto-mod project. As others have said, selling off your dad's unmodified vert as-is will net you the most cash upfront today, but then you lose that clean shell to use as the basis of your build. Unless you are in, or have connections in the body shop business, getting the rust repairs and other body/paint work done on your turbo vert will be a very expensive proposition, so IMHO that option is a non-starter.

Either way, sounds like you'll need to budget for parts needed to rebuild the 13BT in the turbo vert, since you mentioned one rotor is low on compression. Also need to budget for an engine management system, wiring, and all ancillary bits you may need (e.g., cooling, transmission/diff, fuel system, exhaust, etc..) for a complete power train swap from your turbo vert into your dad's NA vert. How much will depend on how much of your turbo vert drive train you can swap over to the NA vert as-is. And don't forget tuning costs - either invest in learning how to DIY tune the engine management system you chose, or find a competent shop to do it for you.

I'd start planning by taking a full inventory of all the parts/systems on both cars, assess their condition and determine what parts you need to keep for the project, and sell off the remainder. If the engine in your dad's vert is presently running well, selling it as a complete running long block can fetch good cash, as you won't need many of those NA long block parts - there are always WTB ads looking for running 13B's.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

Yes, I'm planning to pull the engine in my turbo vert in the next few weeks to month. Get it torn down and see what I'm dealing with. Do a compression test on dad's vert.

I do have a good resource for paint and body work. I know a guy who runs his own after hours and weekend shop. He is employed doing the same thing for a local dealership and has his business he is growing. He is the one who painted my father's car. He is honest and he does good work and for pretty cheap. BUT it won't be showroom and he'll tell you that upfront. I'm putting out feelers to see if anyone knows anyone that would come to my house and weld replacement flooring. I can prep it and can cut and bend the replacement metal, but I don't own a welder and wouldn't trust my "intro to welding" class I took 7 yrs ago to weld something as thin as floorboards :P

As far as swapping turbo drivetrain to my father's...I'd swap everything. I've done it before when I swapped my existing turbo drivetrain into a newer shell. I swapped the entire rear subframe from one vert to the other. My preliminary plan, without seeing the condition of the two engines is to rebuild the n/a for high compression turbo. I'd use my turbo manifolds, fd fuel pump, upgraded injectors, water pump housing. All the accessories bolted to the keg. Part of my preliminary/theoretical plan would be to sell the S5 turbo internals which are in good shape. Use that money to help fund the N/A rebuild, engine management and tuning.

But the firs step as you said, is to get a good assessment of what I have to work with.

JustJeff

iTrader: (13)

years worth of dust, but I really enjoyed getting familiar with the engine. It's up on jackstands, hope to pull the engine next weekend