Evil Aviator

It depends on your race class, so you should check the rule book prior to spending your money on anything. For simple autocrossing you don't need anything, no roll bar and no coilovers. Some racing events will not let a vert compete regardless of what is done to it. Here is a link of a build-up for SCCA EP racing, which is the second-lowest level of track racing in SCCA:
E/P Convertible

It's probably a T2 clutch and tranny. To use these, you would need to buy a special Mazdatrix driveshaft to mate them to your NA differential, or you would need to buy a T2 driveshaft, T2 differential, and T2 halfshafts. If the T2 transmission doesn't come with a T2 starter and T2 clutch slave cylinder, then you will need to buy these in order to use the T2 transmission. If you plan on racing then you would really want the T2 components because I don't think the smaller NA differential and halfshafts would hold up to much more than autocrossing.

MIDNFauciUSN

iTrader: (8)

I have coilovers on my vert... and the ride is no different than it is in my 2012 MS3. Is it stiff? Sure. Is it painful... to the point of scaring my wife? Absolutely not... far from it, really.

Why do I have them? Ride height adjustability. That's IT - I have to get it on and off of a trailer with a completely molded on FC2000 body kit. Dampening force is also adjustable... I have them set to all the way soft, all the time, and the ride is fine - again, like my MS3, which is on stock shocks and H&R springs.

If you want coilovers, more power to you. Nothing wrong with them. If you want airbags, awesome. If you're planning on doing any sanctioned racing... just follow the rules.

And for what its worth, my KSport coilovers ride much better than my HKS Hyper coilovers - I'm surprised, with as much crap as people talk about them being "cheap Chinese knock-offs."

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

Yeh I'm defiantly gonna read that scca link to see what I need and get that first then worry about everything else. Probably gonna look for a t2 rearend because the na vert one isn't that great and maybe look for a set of coilovers if I have any money left.

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

And you would recommend ksport for coilovers?

MIDNFauciUSN

iTrader: (8)

*I* would... and a lot of people will, but just as many people wont. And most of the people that wont are the ones that haven't used them.

It really boils down to personal preference. The whole "KSport, Buddy Club, Stance, etc coilovers suck" argument really pisses me off. Of all brands to bash... these aren't the ones.

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

Yeh I've driven/drifted a 240sx with Megan coilovers and they really weren't as bad as everyone says they are. I know its all personal prefrence and ill have to try different ones to find the ones I personally think are the best, but its always nice to have someone else's input whether it be good or bad. I also have a friend that rides stance coilovers and really likes them and another with buddy club and I got the opportunity to ride in this car and it felt really smooth even on the bumpy rodes where I live.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

Well, I'll be the big internet dick and say "yes, they do suck, you just don't know enough to tell".
I guarantee that the adjustments from shock to shock are not consistent and even considering one shock alone, the steps between one click and the next aren't the same. Until you get to the upper echelon of shock builders the quality of valving just isn't there.

Besides, even assuming you have the best possible components, without the onboard data to evaluate and the knowledge to do so, your chances of getting the suspension set up properly are about zero.

People like coilovers because they make it easy to slam the chassis and fit wider tires, not because they're especially good suspension pieces.

stevensimon

iTrader: (11)

cheapest and easiest way to solve this is to buy a running t2 the same series as your vert, and swap everything over. part the remaining bits of the t2 and trash it

Evil Aviator

+1

However, if your driving skills are not to the level that it matters, then I don't see anything wrong with getting the cheapie coilovers as long as you don't try to fool yourself into thinking that the Chinese/Korean crap is on par with actual racing gear. Personally, I would rather spend a little more on an entry-level race-quality setup like the Ground Control Koni/Eibach kit, Mazda Motorsports Koni/Eibach kit, or ISC Racing Bilstein kit, but then again I am older than most people on this forum and another $100-200 isn't going to wipe out my bank account.

I think that race-modding a vert is like pissing into the wind, but that's just me. My coupe has all the race mods because it is a more practical racing platform, and I use my convertible for driving around town and occasional autocrossing. My convertible would look and drive like crap on the street if it had the same race mods as my coupe. Besides, one money pit is enough, lol.

... or just use the T2 for racing and keep the vert for the street.

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

Clokker I agree with you that I probably don't have enough experiabce to really tell, but in nit at that skill level yet that I should buy entry level coilovers so the cheapies are alright for now until I learn and getting the t2 donor car seems like a good idea if the car was a complete rust bucket, then swapping all the parts would be good, but if I were to find a good t2 and get it, it would most defiantly become my track car and the vert would be my street driver.

MIDNFauciUSN

iTrader: (8)

You're right. This car doesn't hit any tracks... it MIGHT get driven for about an hour per week. Theres no reason to spend 3500+ on coilovers when the car doesnt need it.

Gotta be honest here though, you telling me that these coilovers suck is kinda like me telling you that RX7s suck, because they're old and slow... you should buy a Porsche if you want a real race car.

Its a difference of opinion. I have said from the beginning that these $1000 coilovers are absolutely fine for the street. Would I track them? No.

I also couldnt tell any difference between Monroe, Gabriel, and my KYB AGXs. Maybe its because the AGXs didnt cost 500 a piece!

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

Well I am going to be tracking my rx7 so maybe I should just save a little extra to pick up some entry level coilovers.

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

Maybe for street driving they're fine, and with the coilovers I.did drive on it wasn't on a track just some slides around my local industrial park and rotarys late at night.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

For the same money as cheap coilovers you can buy a nice set of regular shocks (KYB Agx, Koni, etc.), slap on some Eibach or Racing Beat springs and end up with a much better suspension.

No, it isn't "kinda like that" at all.

Why spend a grand for a suspension that's demonstrably inferior to a standard (and less expensive) setup?

If the goal is to lower the car and fit wider wheels, then just admit it and the discussion is over (although I'd still recommend you investigate some Ground Control kits before getting the cheap coilovers).

Your last sentence actually proves the point better than I have...for the type of driving you do and your experience level in suspension tuning*, practically anything will apparently work.


*BTW, I'm not trying to present myself as a suspension guru/expert.
In fact, all I really know is that I don't know very much.

When I was roadracing the team was fortunate enough to get some support from Ohlins. At first, this was only a better deal on hardware and we were on our own with the setup. We bumbled around for a few minor events and thought we had a workable setup...then came Mid Ohio.
The rider did well enough in practice that we were invited to the Ohlins tent and the techs there went over the whole thing.

The rider absolutely hated it but lap times fell and the faster he went, the more he began to like it. We placed third in the final at an AMA National, quite a good result for a privateer effort against factory teams.

This proved two things to me.
The rider and I weren't very good with suspensions and what "feels right" at one speed level is totally wrong at another.

It also points out the problem with adjustability...the more you have, the more likely you'll screw it up.

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

Yeh clokker I'm far from good with suspension. I don't really know anything about it which is why od like to get the most advice I can do it, and if you say getting entry level coilovers and save for the much better quality then I will do that, because I do plan on going to drift events as much as possible and whenever there is one in my area. And comparing a Porsche to a rx7 isn't exactly the same as comparing coilovers.

Derek_McDermott

iTrader: (1)

Also I was recently reading up on doing a t2 rear end swap. Has anyone done this ad is this something to really look into, because from what ive read it seems like its something that should be done.