J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

Agree.

Plus, farmers have been getting screwed for years, who cares if they make a little coin off this if they can get us off foreign oil?

Sideways7

iTrader: (7)

I agree with that 100%, especially the electricity part. What we REALLY need is a more efficient rail system to take the strain off of the roads. If you look at Europe, far less people drive cars because they have such a good rail system. If I could ride the train to work I would do it in a heartbeat. It is far easier and less stressful, not to mention much better for the environment. If you use Nuclear power, it has no effects on the environment (except the storage of nuclear waste, which is nothing compared to what happens to the environment with fossil fuels). It can supply the needed energy in a very green manner. And don't even start about the unreliability. The only 2 problems have been directly related to poor management and inadequate training. Since the regulations have been stepped up there have been no problems. If you look at Europe there are nuclear plants everywhere with no problems.

takerwolf

http://www.thefuelman.com/fuelmanstills.html (bottom of page, gallons yeild per acre, 200 corn, 1200 jerueselum artichoke flower)
http://www.thefuelman.com/fullflexfaqs.html (confusing claims of no damage to rubber or alcohol if fuel is unadulterated with chlorine, solvents, additives, and water ie make your own)
Of course this is a website selling products so one should be skeptical.

http://www.teslamotors.com/index.php?js_enabled=1 (now this car is pimp, and pays for itself after 666000 miles with gas at $4/gallon, now just need to come up with the 100k)

dot_txt

iTrader: (1)

Theres always the choice of running pure E. Im not sure where the prices are but last I heard you can get it for about 85$-100$/55 gal if you buy straight from a distillery . This was awhile ago and I'm not sure how much it is now but if your willing to have a few 55 gal drums of ethanol in your garage that might certainly save some short term cash.

Oh yea I could be completely wrong about those prices.. thats just what I heard awhile back

RevinRx7

iTrader: (3)

Yes, but it evaporates quicker putting raw hydrocarbons into the environment faster because of its smaller polymer chain.

schmol

E85 will never take off unless it gets below $2 a gallon and because of the amount of energy(uses natural gas/coal)it takes to make one gallon of E-85. E-85 even though it's manufacturured domestically, the price per gallon will still be influenced by the current fuel prices. You can also use almost anything that decomposes to make E-85, corn, tall grass, wood chips, dead bodies...we need some other type of fuel that we can make relatively cheap here in the USA.

What really get me, LPG(propane/butane) and NG(natural gas) are very readily available to every consumers as a alternate fuel source, but as a product of the US oil cartel, it costs just as much as a regular gallon of gas and wouldn't be a feasible conversion. Belive me, I've been researching it lately. I even found a company in Australia that makes a kit for RX7s for $2400us. You can refill a LPG converted car just as quickly as filling your car with gasoline, but NG will take up to 13 hours for a refill.

Didn't someone convert their Ford Escort to run off gas/water? It was in the news sometime last year. This was the same guy that made a cutting torch that uses nothing but water.

takerwolf

Where does LPG come from anyway?
Really? I've got plans I found at a website called spirit of ma'at or something like that (I'll have to look) on how to run a car on pure water. The only problem was you have to ceramic coat your cylinders and pistons (or rotors) and install stainless steel valves (no problem for us) and it had only been tested on carberated NA cars, though they did mention someone testing a gas/hybrid one in Mexico but did not give any info on where to find it. What you end up doing is having a "bubbler chamber" with electrodes in it and a control box the uses electrolysis to convert it to hydrogen and oxygen and the amount varies with throttle sensor (you tune it to 30psi at idle and 60psi at WOT).
The Paul Pantone GEET device looks promising, but again NA carb'd from all I've seen, I'm going to try it out on a lawn mower. Reason I'd like straight ethanol is cleanliness and ability to make my own. Why can't you run a still on ethanol to make more ethanol? I'll have to see about buying the drums of it, still need to find where to buy conversion parts.

takerwolf

Oh yeah, and would it be possible to get away with running a GT35/40 on the stock IC due to burning cooler? I've seen a 400hp late 90's Tiburon in a magazine with 2 400hp turbo'd 4cyl motors running on methanol with no IC at all, was dubbed the ultimate sleeper in the magazine. If so I could sell off my universal IC parts to pay for the conversion.

RxVertJames

heres a link on how to make ethanol. but more important, this site seems to tell truths about ethanol, including the issues like corrosion and efficiency.

http://running_on_alcohol.tripod.com/

ziplock

talking about ethanol or like ethyl alcohols, we use that alot in canada.

i am highly against that type of thing.

Lets see corn -> fuel

so,
price of corn goes up
price of food using corn goes up
price of animals who eat corn goes up (cows, pigs, the works..)
what else did i miss?

sorry to change this to a fuel crisis topic, but really the whole world should be using hydro electric plants, and everything else should be electric. Would never happen but that makes the most sense. im no tree hugger, i love burnin me oil, just a thought...

Bluecoop91

iTrader: (14)

You make some good points. Corn cannot both feed us (and our livestock) and sufficiently supply our energy needs.

Hydro power is a great, clean power source but there are not enough sources to meet current or future energy needs.

takerwolf

True, but you can make it from anything that breaks down into a sugar/alcohol. If I buy jerueselum artichokes for growing as fuel I don't think anyone else uses those for food, i'd never heard of them and they yeild 10x more per acre then corn.
Thanks for the link, I've actually came across that site before. What I need is a place to get the parts for the conversion, like either a coating for fuel tank, or fuel cell,fuel rail, fuel pump, and fuel lines.
Another project I'm considering with the spare oil/coolant leaking car is an electric conversion. With a $1500 motor I can get top speeds over 70mph at least with a range of at least 40mph. But I think I'll try to pickup a used fork truck motor to try it out first. There was a guy with a 2.5hp golf cart motor in an Isuzu pickup that can go 20mph :\ Still want to keep the turbocharged beast of course, but wouldn't need to daily drive it.

apreludem

hydrogen or H3 > anything else. There i solved all the arguing

junito1

E-85 and premix? I premix and Im trying to get all the little answers before i go trying e85.

on ethanol subject ,

Ford's first prototype model was fuel by hemp ethanol. This would great as it does not deplete soil nutrients like corn.



apreludem- H3? Whats that? I happen to be familiar with cH3, i think. toluene? I say we all try toluene with fuel heaters of some sort.

Derekcat

iTrader: (8)

I'm crossing my fingers for Algae gas to take off.. >_> 100% compatible with all cars, carbon neutral, grown in the wastelands.. Sounds like a plan to me!

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

Instead of spending the cash on converting your car to a fuel that will go by the waste side of alternatives. Many My self included) find it ridiculous that 70% of corn grown goes out out tail pipes while creating more pollution to cultivate them than would be made by using straight gasoline.

Consider instead a conversion to compressed natural gas or CNG. A conversion kit can cost under $1000 installed for a DIY'er. No new injectors, virtually plug and play.
Here's the kicker, running CNG with no catalytic converter will pollute 20% less than E10 with a cat! And will cost about $1.30 per gallon (after you convert units).

You might guess i am very interested in it. My current dwelling makes it impossible for me to convert now. But I might go ahead and convert to LP.
http://www.cngnow.com/EN-US/Vehicles...verttoCNG.aspx

http://push.pickensplan.com/group/cn...dtheirvehicles

http://cngoutfitters.com/

rx7racerca

iTrader: (1)

How did this come back from the dead?

Hydrogen does not exist in a usable state in nature. It is either made from natural gas, at a significant net loss of energy (and we're still hydrocarbon dependent and contributing to GHGs), or its produced via electrolysis of water, at a huge net loss of energy. Since hydrogen production requires other energy sources that can be used for transportation, and at net loss of energy and efficiency, it can't be economically viable.
/hydrogen

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

CNG does still use hydrocarbons. But it is a cleaner form of hydrocarbons than any other hydrocarbon fuel. It has more energy per unit than alcohol, almost as much as gasoline. Just cleaner.
Plus, transporting CNG requires no fuel. Gasoline and alcohol have to be trucked. CNG is piped everywhere.
We have the largest (land locked) reserve of natural gas in the world. If we converted every vehicle in the US to CNG tomorrow, we could drive and heat our homes for the nest 300+ years, with no oil imports.
We have a cleaner burning alternative that has a smaller carbon footprint to distribute, and we would be independent. No change in fuel economy. All at less than 1/2 the cost to consumers.
I can Google that for you.

Derekcat

iTrader: (8)

Awesome! But has anyone tried to do a Rotary CNG conversion yet? Could the tank replace the gas tank location[to do pure CNG driving] - or how much of the hatch space would be used for the tank[s]?
And do you think this is a better solution than algae gas? [Pollution/cost/production #s]

SirCygnus

iTrader: (1)

the corn that is used for livestock feed is not the same corn used in human consumption and is also not the same corn use for making ethanol.

fidelity101

iTrader: (11)

diesel > everything



while were at it

tweaked

iTrader: (4)

Yes, you are correct. however, those thousands of acres could be growing something else for human consumption. Or a tree farm to increase O2 production.


Diesel has more energy per unit than most other fuels out there. But, it takes energy to refine it and distribute it. It also has much higher levels of pollutants than most other fuels. It is the most stable transportation fuel. Meaning it's very hard to ignite.
Natural gas however, disperses into atmosphere quickly and has a very narrow range for ignition.


There are small tanks available where you could fit two in the stock location. though your range will be limited. A CNG tank is considered empty @ around 700 PSI. Below 1000 PSI you may notice some drivablility issues. A tank in the hatch is a good way to go because you can not only extend your range, but have options for fuel.

Algae gas is not feasible. It costs thousands of dollars to make a few gallons. Not to mention lots of land. If it ever becomes viable, I don't believe it will be in my lifetime.