transmission counter-shaft front bearing
10-02-02, 09:09 AM
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transmission counter-shaft front bearing
I'm putting in a HD ACT Pressure Plate and clutch in, when I took off the front cover on the tansmission I noticed that the counter shaft bearing has gone out. All the little steel ***** in the bearing came out. I look all a lot of RX-7 sites on the internet and couldn't find anyone that sells those. Does anyone know a place that sells those? and also is there a way to find out if synchro is going bad without taking the transmission apart? I've been told that when I engage the gears(while the engine is turned off and without of using clutch) and if it clicks while going in gear, then it means the syncros are okay. If it engages without any effort or goes in really smoothly(no clicks) then it means that syncros are broken. do you agree? I'm also changing the front and rear seals, gasket for front cover, new throw out bearing, pilot bearing, transmission side mounts, and gear oil, anything else I should do while my transmission is out?
10-02-02, 11:06 AM
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Remove the bearing and take it to a bearing supply house or auto parts store. They will have or can get you a new one. I expect you will have to take the front half of the trans off to get the bearing off the countershaft. When it is apart you can check your syncros as shown in the FSM. Most 2nd gens have problems from wear not from the syncro actually breaking (think that is a 1st gen prob).
I would replace the input shaft bearing while you were at it. Or go full out and replace all the bearings in the trans.
I would replace the input shaft bearing while you were at it. Or go full out and replace all the bearings in the trans.
10-02-02, 12:02 PM
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just go to the dealer. we used to stock those bearings.
mike
mike
10-17-02, 07:05 PM
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Since one bearing is dead, I'd expect the other 2 on the counter shaft are pretty beat from the loads created when the first one failed.
Hec with the tranny out you're half way there to replacing the tranny bearings. A complete set of bearings (10), 2 mainshaft seals, pilot seal, and 2 locknuts will run about 300 from the dealer.
The bearing count break down is:
Mainshaft - Front, Center, Rear
Countershaft - Front, Center, Rear
Mainshaft (Input shaft-Output shaft) roller bearing
1st & Rev Gear needle Bearings (inside gears as they ride on the mainshaft)
Pilot Roller Bearing
Just lay out all the parts in order as you dissasemble and reverse it to assemble the cleaned parts. You can get the parts list fiche in PDF from http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/ manual section. Make sure you have the VIN matching parts as described in the remarks section of the parts list. The drawings will help with the parts order for assembly.
On the tools side you'll need:
Gear/Bearing pullers - Extend your standard 2/3 arm pullers using 1/4 x 1" steel flat bar ($5) from Home depot and drill holes 3/4 in from each end to make the puller reach 16"-20" onto the mainshaft. Add additional holes along the way as needed. I took a 48" bar and cut 3 x 16" lengths with 2" hole spacing. Make sure you stack the three arms before you drill through them together to get the hole spacing identical on each arm or the puller won't pull a balanced load across the arms causing the bearings to twist as they come out.
Gear/Bearing Drifts (Punches) - Go to Home Depot and buy 1.5" steel pipe pre-threaded at each end. Buy one 8" and another 12" prethreaded stem . Buy a threaded cap for the 8" and a 1.5" to 1.5" connector for the 12". Now you have an 8" and 20" drift when connected together. To match the bearing race diameters buy threaded connecters for the other end of your drifts to step down from 1.5" to 1.25", 1", .75", .5". For about $20 you have a great set of drifts to use on wheel bearings as well. Remember to hammer on the capped end only.
Mainshaft 42mm Locknut Tool - You need a 16"-20" deep socket to reach the lock nut down on the mainshaft. Its recessed in the Rev/5th clutch hub so only a socket like device will work. You can buy 2" steel pipe 20" long at Home Depot and then get a 42mm socket 3/4 drive at Sears. Cut the socket in half and weld each end to the steel pipe to make a super deep socket. A completely simple approach is take the tranny at that point (20lbs) in its intermediate housing to a Mazda dealer and give a mechanic $5 to pull it off and another $5 to put it back on later. Both approaches have worked for me but remember to lock the mainshaft steady by sliding the 1st/2nd gear clutch hub over 1st gear and the Rev/5th gear clutch hub over reverse gear and then clamp the intermediate housing (1" thick section) in a bench vise.
Pilot Bearing Remover - I've tried everything from bent screwdrivers to dremel tools. Bottomline is you need to pull from the rear of the bearing on at least 2 opposing edges simultaneously (A MUST) to get this out. You can either get a hydraulic lifter extractor with its slap hammer ($30) from a local auto parts and mate it to a heavier 5pd slap hammer, or better yet, spend the $17 to order a 3 armed pilot bearing puller from http://www.jcwhitneyusa.com. This last approach is definitely money well spent.
Pilot Bearing and Seal Driver - You can use a deep socket and hammer to drive in the new bearing but remember to lube the bearing before the seal goes back in. The socket diameter must be wide enough to avoid driving against the bearing roller grasps and narrow enough to avoid getting it lodged in there, so test the socket for fit first. In either case the clutch and pressure plate have to come off to get the bearing in and out. If you wait until the tranny is dissasembled, you can use the front main shaft (input shaft) which is about 8" long as a clutch centering tool to get the clutch back on. This is the shaft end that normally rides in the clutch plate and pilot bearing. You can also order $3 clutch centering tool from either http://www.rx-7.com/ or http://www.mazdatrix.com/ftools.htm.
Flywheel Brake tool - The Clutch Pressure plate bolts only require about 20 ft/lbs of torque so a full blown brake tool on the flywheel teeth isn't neccessary as many would suggest. With the long bolts for the bell housing fully threaded into the back on the engine, you can use your flat bar from tools above to hold the flywheel steady as you torque each bolt.
Hope this helps and enjoy the project. Email me with questions if needed .
Hec with the tranny out you're half way there to replacing the tranny bearings. A complete set of bearings (10), 2 mainshaft seals, pilot seal, and 2 locknuts will run about 300 from the dealer.
The bearing count break down is:
Mainshaft - Front, Center, Rear
Countershaft - Front, Center, Rear
Mainshaft (Input shaft-Output shaft) roller bearing
1st & Rev Gear needle Bearings (inside gears as they ride on the mainshaft)
Pilot Roller Bearing
Just lay out all the parts in order as you dissasemble and reverse it to assemble the cleaned parts. You can get the parts list fiche in PDF from http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/ manual section. Make sure you have the VIN matching parts as described in the remarks section of the parts list. The drawings will help with the parts order for assembly.
On the tools side you'll need:
Gear/Bearing pullers - Extend your standard 2/3 arm pullers using 1/4 x 1" steel flat bar ($5) from Home depot and drill holes 3/4 in from each end to make the puller reach 16"-20" onto the mainshaft. Add additional holes along the way as needed. I took a 48" bar and cut 3 x 16" lengths with 2" hole spacing. Make sure you stack the three arms before you drill through them together to get the hole spacing identical on each arm or the puller won't pull a balanced load across the arms causing the bearings to twist as they come out.
Gear/Bearing Drifts (Punches) - Go to Home Depot and buy 1.5" steel pipe pre-threaded at each end. Buy one 8" and another 12" prethreaded stem . Buy a threaded cap for the 8" and a 1.5" to 1.5" connector for the 12". Now you have an 8" and 20" drift when connected together. To match the bearing race diameters buy threaded connecters for the other end of your drifts to step down from 1.5" to 1.25", 1", .75", .5". For about $20 you have a great set of drifts to use on wheel bearings as well. Remember to hammer on the capped end only.
Mainshaft 42mm Locknut Tool - You need a 16"-20" deep socket to reach the lock nut down on the mainshaft. Its recessed in the Rev/5th clutch hub so only a socket like device will work. You can buy 2" steel pipe 20" long at Home Depot and then get a 42mm socket 3/4 drive at Sears. Cut the socket in half and weld each end to the steel pipe to make a super deep socket. A completely simple approach is take the tranny at that point (20lbs) in its intermediate housing to a Mazda dealer and give a mechanic $5 to pull it off and another $5 to put it back on later. Both approaches have worked for me but remember to lock the mainshaft steady by sliding the 1st/2nd gear clutch hub over 1st gear and the Rev/5th gear clutch hub over reverse gear and then clamp the intermediate housing (1" thick section) in a bench vise.
Pilot Bearing Remover - I've tried everything from bent screwdrivers to dremel tools. Bottomline is you need to pull from the rear of the bearing on at least 2 opposing edges simultaneously (A MUST) to get this out. You can either get a hydraulic lifter extractor with its slap hammer ($30) from a local auto parts and mate it to a heavier 5pd slap hammer, or better yet, spend the $17 to order a 3 armed pilot bearing puller from http://www.jcwhitneyusa.com. This last approach is definitely money well spent.
Pilot Bearing and Seal Driver - You can use a deep socket and hammer to drive in the new bearing but remember to lube the bearing before the seal goes back in. The socket diameter must be wide enough to avoid driving against the bearing roller grasps and narrow enough to avoid getting it lodged in there, so test the socket for fit first. In either case the clutch and pressure plate have to come off to get the bearing in and out. If you wait until the tranny is dissasembled, you can use the front main shaft (input shaft) which is about 8" long as a clutch centering tool to get the clutch back on. This is the shaft end that normally rides in the clutch plate and pilot bearing. You can also order $3 clutch centering tool from either http://www.rx-7.com/ or http://www.mazdatrix.com/ftools.htm.
Flywheel Brake tool - The Clutch Pressure plate bolts only require about 20 ft/lbs of torque so a full blown brake tool on the flywheel teeth isn't neccessary as many would suggest. With the long bolts for the bell housing fully threaded into the back on the engine, you can use your flat bar from tools above to hold the flywheel steady as you torque each bolt.
Hope this helps and enjoy the project. Email me with questions if needed .
10-18-02, 09:01 AM
#6
Rotary Enthusiast
Originally posted by fcouperus
Since one bearing is dead, I'd expect the other 2 on the counter shaft are pretty beat from the loads created when the first one failed.
Hec with the tranny out you're half way there to replacing the tranny bearings. A complete set of bearings (10), 2 mainshaft seals, pilot seal, and 2 locknuts will run about 300 from the dealer.
The bearing count break down is:
Mainshaft - Front, Center, Rear
Countershaft - Front, Center, Rear
Mainshaft (Input shaft-Output shaft) roller bearing
1st & Rev Gear needle Bearings (inside gears as they ride on the mainshaft)
Pilot Roller Bearing
Just lay out all the parts in order as you dissasemble and reverse it to assemble the cleaned parts. You can get the parts list fiche in PDF from http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/ manual section. Make sure you have the VIN matching parts as described in the remarks section of the parts list. The drawings will help with the parts order for assembly.
On the tools side you'll need:
Gear/Bearing pullers - Extend your standard 2/3 arm pullers using 1/4 x 1" steel flat bar ($5) from Home depot and drill holes 3/4 in from each end to make the puller reach 16"-20" onto the mainshaft. Add additional holes along the way as needed. I took a 48" bar and cut 3 x 16" lengths with 2" hole spacing. Make sure you stack the three arms before you drill through them together to get the hole spacing identical on each arm or the puller won't pull a balanced load across the arms causing the bearings to twist as they come out.
Gear/Bearing Drifts (Punches) - Go to Home Depot and buy 1.5" steel pipe pre-threaded at each end. Buy one 8" and another 12" prethreaded stem . Buy a threaded cap for the 8" and a 1.5" to 1.5" connector for the 12". Now you have an 8" and 20" drift when connected together. To match the bearing race diameters buy threaded connecters for the other end of your drifts to step down from 1.5" to 1.25", 1", .75", .5". For about $20 you have a great set of drifts to use on wheel bearings as well. Remember to hammer on the capped end only.
Mainshaft 42mm Locknut Tool - You need a 16"-20" deep socket to reach the lock nut down on the mainshaft. Its recessed in the Rev/5th clutch hub so only a socket like device will work. You can buy 2" steel pipe 20" long at Home Depot and then get a 42mm socket 3/4 drive at Sears. Cut the socket in half and weld each end to the steel pipe to make a super deep socket. A completely simple approach is take the tranny at that point (20lbs) in its intermediate housing to a Mazda dealer and give a mechanic $5 to pull it off and another $5 to put it back on later. Both approaches have worked for me but remember to lock the mainshaft steady by sliding the 1st/2nd gear clutch hub over 1st gear and the Rev/5th gear clutch hub over reverse gear and then clamp the intermediate housing (1" thick section) in a bench vise.
Pilot Bearing Remover - I've tried everything from bent screwdrivers to dremel tools. Bottomline is you need to pull from the rear of the bearing on at least 2 opposing edges simultaneously (A MUST) to get this out. You can either get a hydraulic lifter extractor with its slap hammer ($30) from a local auto parts and mate it to a heavier 5pd slap hammer, or better yet, spend the $17 to order a 3 armed pilot bearing puller from http://www.jcwhitneyusa.com. This last approach is definitely money well spent.
Pilot Bearing and Seal Driver - You can use a deep socket and hammer to drive in the new bearing but remember to lube the bearing before the seal goes back in. The socket diameter must be wide enough to avoid driving against the bearing roller grasps and narrow enough to avoid getting it lodged in there, so test the socket for fit first. In either case the clutch and pressure plate have to come off to get the bearing in and out. If you wait until the tranny is dissasembled, you can use the front main shaft (input shaft) which is about 8" long as a clutch centering tool to get the clutch back on. This is the shaft end that normally rides in the clutch plate and pilot bearing. You can also order $3 clutch centering tool from either http://www.rx-7.com/ or http://www.mazdatrix.com/ftools.htm.
Flywheel Brake tool - The Clutch Pressure plate bolts only require about 20 ft/lbs of torque so a full blown brake tool on the flywheel teeth isn't neccessary as many would suggest. With the long bolts for the bell housing fully threaded into the back on the engine, you can use your flat bar from tools above to hold the flywheel steady as you torque each bolt.
Hope this helps and enjoy the project. Email me with questions if needed .
Since one bearing is dead, I'd expect the other 2 on the counter shaft are pretty beat from the loads created when the first one failed.
Hec with the tranny out you're half way there to replacing the tranny bearings. A complete set of bearings (10), 2 mainshaft seals, pilot seal, and 2 locknuts will run about 300 from the dealer.
The bearing count break down is:
Mainshaft - Front, Center, Rear
Countershaft - Front, Center, Rear
Mainshaft (Input shaft-Output shaft) roller bearing
1st & Rev Gear needle Bearings (inside gears as they ride on the mainshaft)
Pilot Roller Bearing
Just lay out all the parts in order as you dissasemble and reverse it to assemble the cleaned parts. You can get the parts list fiche in PDF from http://www.iluvmyrx7.com/ manual section. Make sure you have the VIN matching parts as described in the remarks section of the parts list. The drawings will help with the parts order for assembly.
On the tools side you'll need:
Gear/Bearing pullers - Extend your standard 2/3 arm pullers using 1/4 x 1" steel flat bar ($5) from Home depot and drill holes 3/4 in from each end to make the puller reach 16"-20" onto the mainshaft. Add additional holes along the way as needed. I took a 48" bar and cut 3 x 16" lengths with 2" hole spacing. Make sure you stack the three arms before you drill through them together to get the hole spacing identical on each arm or the puller won't pull a balanced load across the arms causing the bearings to twist as they come out.
Gear/Bearing Drifts (Punches) - Go to Home Depot and buy 1.5" steel pipe pre-threaded at each end. Buy one 8" and another 12" prethreaded stem . Buy a threaded cap for the 8" and a 1.5" to 1.5" connector for the 12". Now you have an 8" and 20" drift when connected together. To match the bearing race diameters buy threaded connecters for the other end of your drifts to step down from 1.5" to 1.25", 1", .75", .5". For about $20 you have a great set of drifts to use on wheel bearings as well. Remember to hammer on the capped end only.
Mainshaft 42mm Locknut Tool - You need a 16"-20" deep socket to reach the lock nut down on the mainshaft. Its recessed in the Rev/5th clutch hub so only a socket like device will work. You can buy 2" steel pipe 20" long at Home Depot and then get a 42mm socket 3/4 drive at Sears. Cut the socket in half and weld each end to the steel pipe to make a super deep socket. A completely simple approach is take the tranny at that point (20lbs) in its intermediate housing to a Mazda dealer and give a mechanic $5 to pull it off and another $5 to put it back on later. Both approaches have worked for me but remember to lock the mainshaft steady by sliding the 1st/2nd gear clutch hub over 1st gear and the Rev/5th gear clutch hub over reverse gear and then clamp the intermediate housing (1" thick section) in a bench vise.
Pilot Bearing Remover - I've tried everything from bent screwdrivers to dremel tools. Bottomline is you need to pull from the rear of the bearing on at least 2 opposing edges simultaneously (A MUST) to get this out. You can either get a hydraulic lifter extractor with its slap hammer ($30) from a local auto parts and mate it to a heavier 5pd slap hammer, or better yet, spend the $17 to order a 3 armed pilot bearing puller from http://www.jcwhitneyusa.com. This last approach is definitely money well spent.
Pilot Bearing and Seal Driver - You can use a deep socket and hammer to drive in the new bearing but remember to lube the bearing before the seal goes back in. The socket diameter must be wide enough to avoid driving against the bearing roller grasps and narrow enough to avoid getting it lodged in there, so test the socket for fit first. In either case the clutch and pressure plate have to come off to get the bearing in and out. If you wait until the tranny is dissasembled, you can use the front main shaft (input shaft) which is about 8" long as a clutch centering tool to get the clutch back on. This is the shaft end that normally rides in the clutch plate and pilot bearing. You can also order $3 clutch centering tool from either http://www.rx-7.com/ or http://www.mazdatrix.com/ftools.htm.
Flywheel Brake tool - The Clutch Pressure plate bolts only require about 20 ft/lbs of torque so a full blown brake tool on the flywheel teeth isn't neccessary as many would suggest. With the long bolts for the bell housing fully threaded into the back on the engine, you can use your flat bar from tools above to hold the flywheel steady as you torque each bolt.
Hope this helps and enjoy the project. Email me with questions if needed .
Regarding tools, it would also be helpful to have a torque wrench, and good pair of lock ring and snap ring pliers available.
Also, you forgot to mention that the lock and snap rings, and spring pins should also be replaced once removed, as per FSM.
I also replaced the springs in the shift control lever housing and for the shift fork rods. The original springs did not meet the free height spec in the FSM.
Regarding bearings, the only place where I encountered a problem was with the center countershaft bearing. An original replacement bearing was not available from Mazda. Mazda replaced the original center bearing with one that was 3 mm thinner (i.e., front-to-back) than the original, and there was no washer/spacer to compensate for the additional 3 mm gap between the rear countershaft gear and the bearing. If you recall, on the original setup, there was a spacer between the rear most gear of the countershaft and bearing, which took up any clearance. Well, turns out that the original center countershaft bearing was in very good condition, so I decided to reuse it.
Lastly, I replaced the 5th gear set on my GXL tranny with the 5th gear set of the limited edition GTUs model.
Hot_Dog
'90 RX7 GXL
'02 RSX-S
10-18-02, 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by Hot_Dog
Hey, fcouperus....nice writeup. I did a complete rebuild on my '90 NA 5-speed about 1-1/2 years ago. It's a lot of work. I did some things differently from you, but with the same results. I used bearing a separator -- some people call it a clamshell -- and an "H" puller, with various lengths of threaded rod, to pull the gears and/or bearings. This method works equally well, but is probably a bit more expensive due to the tools. Making the tube socket was the biggest PITA. BTW, the nut is actually 43 mm, and Seras doesn't sell metric 3/4" sockets -- you'll need to buy the closest fractional size available. IIRC, I bought a 3/4" drive 1-11/16" socket from Sears. I made my tube socket a little differently than you. I have access to a machine shop, so I was able to bore the 3/4" square hole into a round hole slightly greater than 1" in diameter so that it would slide over the output shaft. I also used the lathe to shave some metal from the outside of the socket, on the back end, so that it would fit into a 1-3/4" pipe. I than drilled a hole through the pipe/socket assembly, and used short (so as to not obstruct the center opening) bolts and a hose clamp to secure the socket to the pipe. On the other end, I used a large bolt (6" x 1-3/4"), which also had to be shaved a bit to fit into the pipe, and cross drilled the pipe/bolts and secured them with a nut/bolt.
Regarding tools, it would also be helpful to have a torque wrench, and good pair of lock ring and snap ring pliers available.
Also, you forgot to mention that the lock and snap rings, and spring pins should also be replaced once removed, as per FSM.
I also replaced the springs in the shift control lever housing and for the shift fork rods. The original springs did not meet the free height spec in the FSM.
Regarding bearings, the only place where I encountered a problem was with the center countershaft bearing. An original replacement bearing was not available from Mazda. Mazda replaced the original center bearing with one that was 3 mm thinner (i.e., front-to-back) than the original, and there was no washer/spacer to compensate for the additional 3 mm gap between the rear countershaft gear and the bearing. If you recall, on the original setup, there was a spacer between the rear most gear of the countershaft and bearing, which took up any clearance. Well, turns out that the original center countershaft bearing was in very good condition, so I decided to reuse it.
Lastly, I replaced the 5th gear set on my GXL tranny with the 5th gear set of the limited edition GTUs model.
Hot_Dog
'90 RX7 GXL
'02 RSX-S
Hey, fcouperus....nice writeup. I did a complete rebuild on my '90 NA 5-speed about 1-1/2 years ago. It's a lot of work. I did some things differently from you, but with the same results. I used bearing a separator -- some people call it a clamshell -- and an "H" puller, with various lengths of threaded rod, to pull the gears and/or bearings. This method works equally well, but is probably a bit more expensive due to the tools. Making the tube socket was the biggest PITA. BTW, the nut is actually 43 mm, and Seras doesn't sell metric 3/4" sockets -- you'll need to buy the closest fractional size available. IIRC, I bought a 3/4" drive 1-11/16" socket from Sears. I made my tube socket a little differently than you. I have access to a machine shop, so I was able to bore the 3/4" square hole into a round hole slightly greater than 1" in diameter so that it would slide over the output shaft. I also used the lathe to shave some metal from the outside of the socket, on the back end, so that it would fit into a 1-3/4" pipe. I than drilled a hole through the pipe/socket assembly, and used short (so as to not obstruct the center opening) bolts and a hose clamp to secure the socket to the pipe. On the other end, I used a large bolt (6" x 1-3/4"), which also had to be shaved a bit to fit into the pipe, and cross drilled the pipe/bolts and secured them with a nut/bolt.
Regarding tools, it would also be helpful to have a torque wrench, and good pair of lock ring and snap ring pliers available.
Also, you forgot to mention that the lock and snap rings, and spring pins should also be replaced once removed, as per FSM.
I also replaced the springs in the shift control lever housing and for the shift fork rods. The original springs did not meet the free height spec in the FSM.
Regarding bearings, the only place where I encountered a problem was with the center countershaft bearing. An original replacement bearing was not available from Mazda. Mazda replaced the original center bearing with one that was 3 mm thinner (i.e., front-to-back) than the original, and there was no washer/spacer to compensate for the additional 3 mm gap between the rear countershaft gear and the bearing. If you recall, on the original setup, there was a spacer between the rear most gear of the countershaft and bearing, which took up any clearance. Well, turns out that the original center countershaft bearing was in very good condition, so I decided to reuse it.
Lastly, I replaced the 5th gear set on my GXL tranny with the 5th gear set of the limited edition GTUs model.
Hot_Dog
'90 RX7 GXL
'02 RSX-S
Regarding tools, yes there are a lot of standard tools needed, I try to limit the discussion to the specialty tools no longer available from Mazda. From the description on the tube socket it sounds like a lot of work. Sears now sells 3/4 drive large metrics but you have to order them online and as a complete kit of sockets. After all is said, the $5 fee to Mazda may be easiest for most who have access to a dealer.
On the ctr counter bearing, yes the thinner bearing is an issue, but my OEM setup on an 85 SE didn't have the locknut washer and the ball bearing was shot. I'm working through Mazda TSBs and TechSprt to get their mods straight for the new roller bearing (to add a thrust washer). The 5spd tranny design has hardly changed over the years except to address the turbo application.
The reason for the 3mm shortfall comes from the design need to make the counter shaft easier to install/remove. So they made the inside race independant of the bearing so it can be driven on the countershaft first and then slid through the bearing which was installed in the housing earlier. To make this possible, the inside race only has one side flange (next to the 1st counter gear) in order to make the slide install into the bearing possible. This leaves the rev. counter gear (on the other side of the race) 3mm closer to the bearing and resting on the horizontal edge of the race rather than a side flange. It also means that the rev. counter gear teeth are extremely close to the bolt-on bearing cover plate. It looks like a design oversight.
I'll post with the answer when available
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