HAILERS2

All four get a hose. Each hose goes to a plastic item called a Spider. The spider has FIVE nipples on it. The four small nipples go to the four injector tops. The fifth and larger nipple gets a hose and THAT hose on a NON TURBO SERIES FOUR goes to the front of the throttle body where there are THREE metal nipples. ONE of the three is larger than the other two and THAT is where the hose from the spider gets attached.

Spiders can be bought from Mazdatrix or the local dealer.............or you can make something that will work.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

Thanks Hailers, there are plenty of plunged nipples on the manifold, could I use those to individual connect them? I don't think I will be able to reach them without removing the manifold, what are some of the consequences with them not having vac lines on the other end?

2g3n7

hey hailer sircyngus told me i was able to ask you about something ..couldnt PM you so i found a post u made lol ... PM me when u get a chance please

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

If by 'plunged' you mean 'unplugged' then that's why your idle is crap. If you mean 'plugged' then that wouldn't be cause to worry, however you ought to plug in your vacuum spider where it's intended to go and not individually, the system was designed to work a certain way and you could have variations that you don't want if you hooked them up individually, not to mention you'd be adding failure points by having so much length of vacuum line hooked up for a critical engine system. I think I have a new vacuum spider with preformed lines sitting in my garage, I was going to premix with a tank of two stroke in the engine bay instead of putting it in the oil, but I went a different direction. I'm thinking the four lines would fit on your oil injectors just fine, you may have to hook up your vacuum line for the one that goes between the splitter and the intake. I can get a picture of it for you if you want, I'd sell it to you for $25 shipped.

Here are pics of what I'm talking about, like I said I can get pics of the one I have if you're interested. Mine looks like the one at the top of the first pic.

HAILERS2

Well if you leave them open to atmosphere..............that means that dirty air can enter the combustion chambers. Unfiltered air is what I mean.............and the nipples on top of the oil injectors do NOT get vacuum. Putting vacuum to them will cause a irregular idle and sort of mess things up. Like suck oil from the oil metering pump into the intake where it does not normally go.

About the nipples on the front of the throttle body. OF the three only ONE had vacuum on it. That is the bottom one and it feeds the solenoids on the left of the engine. The large one and other small one go to passages in the throttle body that are fed from a source in FRONT of the throttle plates............meaning there is no vacuum there.................but that air is filtered and is METERED air. Metered by the afm.

If the nipples on the oil injectors are left open then that is UNMETERED air entering the combustion chambers. Not a ideal situation. Means the mixture will be slightly leaner than it would normally be ...............and you sucking in dirty air..not filter and not metered air entering the combustion chambers.

No vacuum goes to the top of the oil injectors. IF the engine is running and you could put a finger on top of the injectors you would feel vacuum FROM the intake stroke of the rotor. NO vacuum TO the oil injector is what I'm emphasizing (sp?).

World wouldn't fall apart if you left them to atmosphere and not filtered............but not desireable at all imho. It's take quite a while for enough dirty air to get in there and wear things down. How long? got me.

I've been writing this as if the car is NON TURBO. The TURBO is slightly diffeent in that it gets it's metered/filterd air from the rear of the throttle body.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

My car is NON turbo , NON turbo, meaning it still does use vac lines on top of oil injectors. But I had no problems with idle before without having the spider.
This is how I look at it, the spider acts like a one way valve, it wont let vacuum suck the oil trough but it also wont allow the oil in the oil injectors fall back into the OMP. So I think capping them off should be sufficient, can someone verify this with the actual spider by blowing air trough both ends?

SpeedOfLife

iTrader: (16)

He said he's been writing this specifically for the non-turbo, and both turbo and non-turbo motors use vacuum lines on the top of the oil injectors.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

I need some help now, I'm checking the TPS sensor by following these instructions:

http://fc3spro.com/TECH/HOWTO/TPS/tps.html

Here is what I get, with the key on the on position the meeter reads OL, with the key off it reads 800 ohms and as I turn the throttle slowly the resistance increases up to 1400 ohms where the value peaks off and goes back down ultimately reaching 500 ohms at WOT.

Can somebody confirm this, is my TPS really bad?

satch

iTrader: (1)

You don't measure resistance/ohms w/key to on. The TPS plug should be disconnected for this particular test. And the engine needs to be fully warmed up.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

Where can I find a ECU pin diagram for the 88 S4 Non Turbo?

satch

iTrader: (1)

http://foxed.ca/rx7manual/manuals/19...SYSTEMS_NA.pdf

HAILERS2

Oil will not FALL BACK INTO THE PUMP because the OMP IS a pump. IT outputs pressure to the oil injectors. The checkvalve acts as described in the jpg below. You NEED for the tops to have filtered non vacuum air going TO the top of the injector. Cap off the tops of the oil injectors and the consumption of oil is going to go up quite a bit. Never done that myself to find out exactly how much more.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

What I was trying to say is the flow back into the OMP while the engine is off, mine does that now I can see it.

On the other hand I got my car to idle, although it has a loopy idle around 1500 RPM. I cant do nothing to get it to stabilize, the TPS measured within spec and I was able to adjust it properly. Besides the probability of having an vacuum leak, what else could cause loopy idle at 1500rpm?
I've checked all my grounds and they measure 0V.

satch

iTrader: (1)

The Thermowax might not be engaging properly. After the car starts, if the 3000 rpm idle occurs for 17 seconds that would be followed by an idle rpm of about 1500, which then should lower to 750 and level off. The Thermowax piston should extend as the car heats up which helps to lower the idle speed from 1500 rpm to 750 rpm by assisting in the closing of the primary throttle plate. Also, the throttle cable might be in need of adjustment and more specifically, the cable for cruise control if equipped. Lastly, if the Fast Idle Cam is not rolling off the Roll Pin properly then setting the TPS will prove fruitless.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

I've blocked of vacuum to the thermowax sensor and deleted font two cold start throttle plates. I haven't checked the high idle, I also have to check what my AFR is with the O2 feedback because I think it is running lean at the peak of the loop causing it to die. For example, when I hold my foot on gas at a steady position for the motor to reach 2500 rpm the engine loops increase and become very apparent by the increased rpm fluctuations (by as much as +/-400rpm). What two wires on the ECU do I need to tap in order to check the narrow band AFR of the O2 sensor feedback?

I have a wideband O2 sensor that I can use but I only have one plug on the exhaust and if I remove my stock o2 sensor the motor will run rich regardless.

satch

iTrader: (1)

The Thermowax has a coolant hose to it that activates the system. The smaller hoses that connect to the plastic thermovalve that might run to your Double Throttle Diaphragm, UIM and throttle body really don't affect the idle speed. Below the Thermowax piston lies the throttle linkage which will control how much the primary throttle plate is opened. If it is opened too much then it will cause a higher than normal idle speed. You need to check if the Thermowax piston is extending or not as the car warms up after starting and causing the cam to roll off of the pin or not. If you focus on the throttle linkage in front of the throttle body and press upwards on the linkage as the car is idling and the rpm drops then you know that the primary throttle plate is opened too much thus causing too high of an idle and the Thermowax is likely the cause.

The o2 sensor should not play a role when idling but since your idle is high then maybe it does play somewhat of a role as I don't know the exact vageries at play in this specific instance. You can check what the sensor is doing via the larger of the two green check connectors located by the leading coil. Do an advanced search for the o2 sensor followed by the name of "Calpatriot" as he mentions a method for checking the sensor using the green diagnostic plug mentioned.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

The problem isn't with high idle but with fluctuations in the idle, the idle isn't steady.

HAILERS2

02 sensor is out of the loop UNLESS the car is actually being driven on the road above ??? 1300 rpm. Never in the driveway or at idle. So. One less thing to consider. This applies to both series four and five RX.

If your BAC is still in place on the car..........remove its elect plug and see if the pulsating idle is the same or not. Just looking for clues.

Actually there is no checkvalve in the OMP to prevent backflow from the lines to/thru the omp when the engine is off. Why that does not happen on every car is a mystery to me, but I agree on most cars the lines more than less stay full with key to Off. I think they all drain back if left sitting for days at a time. Not a big issure if that happens as long as they refill later when driving the car. They do fill slowly. Sort of inch their way full or sort of pulse the oil on up the line slowly. Been there seen that. In other words I now see what your talking about.

IF the lines are clear where you can see the oil....you can start the car and lift up on the rod b/t the throttle linkage and omp lever all the way........and at the same time rev the engine to ooooh, 3000 rpm and see them fill a bit faster. The oil sort of pulsates up the lines while doing this. Takes maybe five minute or so to fill 'em up like that. Never actually timed it. That is a guess at the tiem to fill.

satch

iTrader: (1)

Then what is the engine idling at? You stated it was "lopey" at 1500 rpm. Does this mean it idles at 750 rpm and jumps to 1500 rpm or something else? What are the lower and upper limits to your idling?

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, I meant to say that my revolving 1500 rpm (+-400rpm) idle is less of a concern as having the loopy idle.
I can find way to deal with the high idle but running out of options on the loopy craze.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

Hailers, as always I appreciate the detailed inputs.
I have to get out there tonight and see if removing the BAC plug will change the idle behavior.
On the side note I'm thinking about simply capping off the injectors, that’s what you pretty much said couple posts above, right? Will capping oil injectors affect the feed of 2-cycle oil?

satch

iTrader: (1)

You need to focus on lowering the idle so the TPS can be adjusted properly. Also, as I understand it the ECU will cause a fuel cut above 1500 or so rpm so that would help to explain a bouncy idle as will a TPS not set properly due to a too high idle.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

The engine runs fine when throttled higher above 3000 rpm. The engine will simply die if It goes below 1000 rpm. It seems as though the there is a lean condition right before the engagement of the secondaries, a typical problem.

JK5S

iTrader: (2)

Can someone verify quickly that the Spider connector is free flowing from both directions, thanks.

HAILERS2

The spider flows in both directions with no restrictions in either direction.