Cloud

Thanks to those who helped in my other thread, I have put my roommate's 88 RX7 'Vert (5 speed) back together again, including a lot of new parts (rebuilt injectors by RC, new PD, fuel lines, vacuum lines, throttle sensor (200 bucks!), dashpot, OMP lines, etc).

Still have a few uncertains...but I thought the car would still at least start. I took my time and tried to do everything correctly, so here are the few loose ends that I am not so sure about:

1. There is a green wire with a black connector on it near the alternator (more towards the passenger side). No clue what it plugs into...Will this cause the car to not start?

2. Not sure of vacuum routing for 2 spots: the thermoswitch on the TB has 2 nipples, and the back of the intake has a few nipples that I do not know what to plug into. One I used for the CC, one is capped, and the other is still open. Will this cause the car to not start?

3. Not sure about how to connect the vacuum diaphragm for the secondary throttle - Will this being open (unconnected to any vacuum source) cause the car to not start?

Symptoms: Car turns over (a little over 12 volts at the battery) but will not fire up and start. I primed the fuel system by jumping the yellow connector near the MAF, so it should have fuel pressure. Car ran fine before the small fire caused by a leaking PD, and I believe I replaced everything that was damaged in the fire.

Any help would be appreciated, I'm tearing out my hair with this car, and need to get it OUT of my garage! The owner is bugging me constantly to have it done, and I need to start working on my 85 GSL!

Thank you very much in advance,

Jacob Cloud

knight1976

TEll Voges to shut up he wasnt even man enough to work on his own car!!! jk man. I hope you get that bad boy running man. what year is it? I have a 88 fsm if ya need any help. I am at work right now. Hit me up on aim tonight and i can see what those vac hoses are supposed to be routed to.

Cloud

Yes, I am using the search function like crazy, too, but would still appreciate any feedback! Thanks!

Cloud

Thanks Knight! ttyl I can;t wait to get this thing DONE!

Samps

I'd like to point out that this is exactly the way you should post a question. Very informative and well thought out.

Any open vacuum nipple could potentially cause the car not to start. It is unlikely that one open nipple would do it, but a few could.

Does the car "try" to start or does it just turn over? What I'm saying is; does the car sort of jerk when it is turning over?

If the starter is just turning the motor over without any sort of evidence that it is really trying to start; you may not have spark. Finding out if you have spark will at least rule that out if it is in fact not the problem.

The throttle plates should have no effect on whether or not the car starts. They should be closed when starting anyways. And if they are open the car should just jump up in RPM once it is started.

You might have flooded it when you primed it. You could try to unflood it.

Cloud

Samps - thanks, I know it was a long inquiry, but I try to make it as easy as possible to help me.

I'm afraid I could have flooded it...:groan:

I am going to go pull the plugs, check fuses, and try again.

I expected that it would start, but not quite run properly w/ the several vacuum issues. I may try pluggin a few, or at least playing around with a few, and seeing if that makes any difference.

The car does not seem to "try" to start at all. It just whirs and whirs - however, after a few seconds of trying to start, a noise comes on like a warning buzzer...I'm not very familiar with second gens, so I have no clue if this is normal??

Thanks again!

HAILERS

Check the fuses in the engine compartment, then go to the ENGINE fuse in the interior and make sure its good.

If that's all ok, go to the small, white, two socket plug on the Lead coil assy and check for 12v at the black/yellow wire. No juice, no go.

HAILERS

The buzzer was put there to drive you nutz while trying to start a car that won't start. Key off, back on. Kills the darn thing for a few moments.

Make sure the fuel line from the fuel filter is going to the front pipe on the engine.

Make sure the rectangular plug is secure on the AFM.

The vac hose off the throttle body diaphram won't keep the thing from starting.

Green wire with black stripe will not effect a thing.

Cap all open nipples at the back of the throttle body/intake manifold to solve air leaks.

Cloud

Per your advice, went, checked all fuses for continuity with multimeter, all checked OK (couldn't pull 80A fuse out of engine bay box, but from a visual inspection it appears o-tay). Checked fuse in interior, OK. 12.15V at the black/yellow wire.



Dang, that thing works. Quite loud. Should it also be going off if I just leave the key in the "ON" position while I check the voltage at the yellow/blk wire? Bc it did after about 5-10 seconds.

Quite sure I routed all the fuel lines correctly, but will check again. They practically fell into place, so it is possible that I assumed something incorrectly.

This COULD be the problem - the owner had screwed with the AFM before when he botched the install of a K&N FIPK set-up (don't ask). I never touched the AFM during my time with the car, but I will double check.. :/

Okie (didn't think so), Okie (any hints on what it DOES go to then?), Okie. I'll go do all this and get back to you. I can't tell you how much I appreciate the help!

HAILERS

Green wire with a black stripe, I'm pretty sure is for a temp sensor that goes into the filler neck. Only used on cars that have a electric fan in front of the radiator. Pretty sure of this.

That thermo valve.....one nipple for a vac hose to the diaphram, the other to a nipple directly down and below the thermo valve. About six or so inches down,.

I'd see if it has spark. Also pull the lower plugs and have someone crank the engine. You should see a fuel most coming out if it has fuel.

If you have fire and fuel....then its flooded. YOU might trying the unflood procedure and if that does not work, pour some motor oil in the intake and crang the engine to spread it around, then try to start it.

Cloud

Oh, it's flooded! Can this thing be flooded from 1.5-2 months ago when the owner kept trying to start it after the fire??? I can't believe I flooded it by simply priming the fuel system for <5 seconds!

Just got the plugs out, they are soaked. Pulled the EGI fuse (the one closer to the fender, below the EGI Comp fuse) and cranked it over a bunch, can smell gas like crazy.

Is it possible to "dry" off these plugs, or do I have to run and get new ones? The bill for this car has steadily risen due to the high cost of parts...I know the plugs are less than 6 months old (owner replaced them when he got the car) so if I don't have to spend another ~20 bucks, cool. If so, so be it...

I love you. Yes, that's the one. I've been worried about it this whole time. Figures that it's not even used! Thanks! I gotcha on the vacuum routing as well - makes total sense. There are no vacuum tee's involved with what you just said, right? If not, I think I know exactly what you mean. Sweet! I can fix this while I wait for the plugs to dry...

I'll keep searching on how to unflood this FC, it's a helluva lot easier on my FB!

rx7_ragtop

Ok, to unflood it, the EASY way.

Pull the plugs out.

Remove the 2 fuses closest to the engine.

Crank it over for 10 seconds or so. Wait a minute for things to cool. Repeat about 5 times or so. (better have a strong battery.) If you then stick just a tiny bit of oil or atf in the spark plug holes and crank it a few times, this helps to "seal" the apex seals to maximize compression. Clean/dry the plugs or replace- brake cleaner works VERY well for this! Just be sure it all evaporates before you reinstall the plugs- don't worry, it evaporates fast! Reinstall the plugs and plug wires, put the fuses back in, and try to start it. If it floods, just pull those fuses and crank it until it tries to start, then replace them again and start it. Holding the throttle open may help too.

Brad

HAILERS

I see you have another RX near by. Maybe swap the lead plugs b/t the two cars after you try rx ragtop's reply. You know your car works and it's plugs are ok. Now you can put his plugs in and see if they are ok or not.

Cloud

This thing is driving me nuts!

It is obviously flooding. Here's my amatuer diagnostics...

• Pulling the plugs for inspection reveals that they are soaked - very obvious gas fumes, and oily black. Should oil be on them??
• Checked for spark by grounding a spare plug and attaching an ignition wire to it. Result = spark.
• Screw it, got new plugs to replace the flooded ones (replacement NGK's, same as it has always had). Pulled the two EGI fuses (comp and inj), cranked it with throttle floored (LOTSA gas fumes coming out the exhaust) several times(have another battery hooked up so that voltage doesn't drop too much). Once I was satisfied that I got as much gas out as possible, injected some MMO into each of the lower 2 spark plug holes (an ounce or so into each - since it's been sitting for a couple months now, I figured it would probably need it anyway). Crank it over a couple seconds to make sure the MMO makes itself familiar with the rest of the motor.
• Put the new plugs in, put the fuses back in, make sure all the wires are connected to the correct plugs, make sure the battery has plenty of juice, and get inside with a huge grin on my face. "This thing is gonna start, and it's gonna smoke up my whole apt. complex. Sweet!"
• me: <turns key, doesn't TOUCH accelerator pedal>
• rx7: "whiiiiir, whiiiiiir, whiiiiiiir, whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiir..."
• me: YOU MOTHERF*(&ING BI&$@ *** ****!"
  
• 30 seconds pass. Girlfriend wonders what causes primal screaming to come from garage...
  
• me: <deep breath...deep breath...> turn key...pray...
• rx7: "whiiiiir, whiiiiiiir, whiiiiiir, *smoke*, whiiiiir, whiiiiiiir, whiiiiiir"
• me: collapses into fetal postion, crying, wailing, and in general feeling like the worst mechanic in the world...

So, yeah, pulled the plugs and they are gas/oil soaked again, and I'm a little upset. Help please? It's about 70 degrees and perfectly sunny outside - the epitomy of convertible weather, and this damn thing isn't cooperating at ALL...

Your frustrated RX7 friend,
Jacob "Gonna stop working on this and go install rice-sessories on gf's 240SX" Cloud

Cloud

Oh, and RX7 Ragtop - I'll go try that again as soon as I get the S-AFC installed in the 240...it'll give me a few minutes to cool down and hopefully not throw a wrench through the window of the rex...

Thanks!

dr0x

It might be so heavily flooded cranking wont get it going. Wire up a fuel pump kill switch and tow/push start. Turn the ignition to "ON" and turn the pump off, put it in gear w/ the clutch engaged, have someone w/ a truck or whatever you tow around the block a few times (get it going at about 4000rpm in first gear). Keep the accel to the floor. After 2 or 3 min, let go of the accel and turn on the pump. After like 3s or whatever push the clutch in, it should be running on its own. This will make basically any flooded car start. However, some people have said it took well over a mile to get theirs unflooded, mine took like 2 blocks.

HAILERS

If the cas has not been messed with since the last time it ran.........and you have spark........the darn thing has low compression and that's what is making it so hard to start. The pull and tug should work.

On the whole you need to get some oil in and around the rotors, either thru the plug holes or some other way and then rotate the engine to get that oil spread around. Next, prior to trying to start, make a fuel cut switch or disable the fuel pump. I've been lucky on rebuilds to disable the pump, spray starter flluid into the intake prior to the filter and then start the engine. It just goes varoom for a moment so I do it several times to get the oil to move around and then flip the fuel pump back on as I start it with starter fluid one more time. Works for me but I noticed it did not work for another fellow on this site. I know not why.He poured motor oil thru the bac somehow, spun the engine and started it. Pull or push the thing if you have to , though.

Cloud

Well, that doesn't sound very fun...I'm not even sure if my little 85 GSL will push that piggy 'Vert....

gamble302

dude dont knock the stock 12a power, im sure it could push it well downhill at least

dr0x

Im sure 3 or 4 guys could push that thing to get it started. I could probably push my car fast enough to get it started by myself (my alley has a slight slope to it).

Cloud

IT RUNS!

Did the "complex" un-flooding procedure again with about 2 ounces of MMO this time in each lower spark plug hole, and push started it with a Ranger @ ~ 10-15 mph. Started almost right up! LOTS of smoke filled the apartment complex parking lot, lotsa strange looks from the neighbors, and nothing but a huge smile across my face...

Well, until it started smoking again...but then I remembered I forgot to tighten the filler neck cap! Oops...other than that, and the idle being WAY too high (1800 rpm) it runs GREAT!

Thanks for all the help guys, gonna change the oil tomorrow, adjust the idle, and move on to my first gen!

Couldn't have done it without the help, you guys rock!