Timing Set, But CAS all to one side..
07-04-07, 07:01 PM
#1
Timing Set, But CAS all to one side..
Alright, I've done some searching on the subject, but didnt really find anything....
Basically, I just rebuilt the motor, stabbed the CAS. It Started right up no issues. So then i go grab a timing light and to get it on the mark i had to crank it all the way retarded. So it is on the mark, but i found it strange that it needed to be retarded all the way.
I didnt remeber the motor being like this before, so thats why im asking if this is normal?
Basically, I just rebuilt the motor, stabbed the CAS. It Started right up no issues. So then i go grab a timing light and to get it on the mark i had to crank it all the way retarded. So it is on the mark, but i found it strange that it needed to be retarded all the way.
I didnt remeber the motor being like this before, so thats why im asking if this is normal?
07-04-07, 07:11 PM
#2
Lives on the Forum
Timing changes with engine temp, and I bet the engine was still cold?
Reshoot it once you can get the engine up to normal operating temps.
Don't worry about it now - it'll still run with the CAS "close enough".
-Ted
Reshoot it once you can get the engine up to normal operating temps.
Don't worry about it now - it'll still run with the CAS "close enough".
-Ted
07-04-07, 07:23 PM
#4
Sounds like you may have stabbed the CAS one tooth off. Follow the FSM/Haynes directions, re-stab and try again. Make sure you warm the car up fully before setting/checking the timing. If the idle is to high when you check the timing it will already be advancing.
07-04-07, 10:18 PM
#6
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You sure your aligning to the right mark on the pulley? There are 2 marks, one is for trailing and one is for leading. Leading mark is to the right.
Food for though, I have not been able to get my engine started when the CAS is one tooth off either direction.
Food for though, I have not been able to get my engine started when the CAS is one tooth off either direction.
07-05-07, 02:36 AM
#7
You're either a tooth off, or you swapped pullies versus front hub and your timing marks are now inaccurate. It's hard to explain, but the pully with the marks was marked AFTER being installed on the respective hub it came on. Even though you can swap pullies to other hubs, the marks can be significantly off.
I found this out a few years ago when I started doing rebuilds and exchanging blocks with people, and they put their original pullies on a block with a different hub and couldnt get timing lined up right.
It might be worthwhile to find new timing marks mechanically, which is not too hard to do.
IT's also possible that you put the worm/timing gear on backwards when you did the rebuild...the side with the larger bevel on the inside should have faced the engine/front iron. You can install this backwards and the car will still run pretty normally, but I believe it affects timing something on the order of 3-5 degrees.
BTW, I think you cruised behind me at DGRR this year back and forth across the dam, or at least a blue FB just like what's in your sig did.
I found this out a few years ago when I started doing rebuilds and exchanging blocks with people, and they put their original pullies on a block with a different hub and couldnt get timing lined up right.
It might be worthwhile to find new timing marks mechanically, which is not too hard to do.
IT's also possible that you put the worm/timing gear on backwards when you did the rebuild...the side with the larger bevel on the inside should have faced the engine/front iron. You can install this backwards and the car will still run pretty normally, but I believe it affects timing something on the order of 3-5 degrees.
BTW, I think you cruised behind me at DGRR this year back and forth across the dam, or at least a blue FB just like what's in your sig did.
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07-05-07, 08:04 AM
#8
Well i am almost certain that the gear is on the right way, as i made sure about that. However, I wouldnt be suprised about the pulley... So now just to clear things up, there is a chance that the entire pully and hub is from another engine, or would it be just the pulley?
If it were the pulley, the only ones that i have access to are from the 1st gen 13B and the S4 13bts.
About the cruise, Couldnt have been me, None of our rx7s have been in the states as of yet!
If it were the pulley, the only ones that i have access to are from the 1st gen 13B and the S4 13bts.
About the cruise, Couldnt have been me, None of our rx7s have been in the states as of yet!
07-05-07, 10:09 AM
#9
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After my rebuild, with the CAS stabbed 100% correctly, I had the turn the CAS almost all the way retarded.
I tried to stab the CAS foward and backward 1 tooth and then it was definately wrong. My engine was also setup with a mild street port, and I was thinking that might have had something to do with it.
My conclusion...as long as the timing is good, and the engine runs good that it's ok to have the CAS set to the limit.
I wouldn't feel comfortable about extending the slot on the housing. :O
I tried to stab the CAS foward and backward 1 tooth and then it was definately wrong. My engine was also setup with a mild street port, and I was thinking that might have had something to do with it.
My conclusion...as long as the timing is good, and the engine runs good that it's ok to have the CAS set to the limit.
I wouldn't feel comfortable about extending the slot on the housing. :O
07-05-07, 02:24 PM
#13
The hub is the round metal chunk that slides on the end of the e-shaft, and is held on by the big bad 19mm bolt. It has 4 holes in it, for the pulleys to bolt to.
The way this works is...the eshaft, and hub, are keyed together. Your stock leading timing mark should be 90* away from the keyway in the shaft/hub (clockwise as viewed from the front). If you have a hub/pulley combo off the motor, you can simply pick it up, hold the keyway at the top, and the timing mark should be exactly at 3 oclock on the pulley.
IF the stuff is on the motor, the head of the 19mm bolt covers up the keyway so you can't make this judgement. Removing that bolt can be a bitch and can also lead to other problems under the front cover, so I don't recommend removing it once installed.
Back to the hub...it has a keyway that indexes it to the shaft. There are 4 holes drilled for the pullies. Then the pullies bolt onto that. You would think that the factory would have referenced the 4 hole pattern versus the keyway in the hub...but they did not. They just drilled those 4 holes at random with respect to the keyway. Then they bolted on a pulley, and THEN they made the timing marks.
This means that, though every hub will bolt to every engine, and every pulley can bolt to every hub, the marks can vary greatly once you start swapping them around.
IF you leave the pullies on the hub they originally came on, you are always good to go. If you remove the pullies and put them on a different hub, your marks WILL be off by some amount.
The way this works is...the eshaft, and hub, are keyed together. Your stock leading timing mark should be 90* away from the keyway in the shaft/hub (clockwise as viewed from the front). If you have a hub/pulley combo off the motor, you can simply pick it up, hold the keyway at the top, and the timing mark should be exactly at 3 oclock on the pulley.
IF the stuff is on the motor, the head of the 19mm bolt covers up the keyway so you can't make this judgement. Removing that bolt can be a bitch and can also lead to other problems under the front cover, so I don't recommend removing it once installed.
Back to the hub...it has a keyway that indexes it to the shaft. There are 4 holes drilled for the pullies. Then the pullies bolt onto that. You would think that the factory would have referenced the 4 hole pattern versus the keyway in the hub...but they did not. They just drilled those 4 holes at random with respect to the keyway. Then they bolted on a pulley, and THEN they made the timing marks.
This means that, though every hub will bolt to every engine, and every pulley can bolt to every hub, the marks can vary greatly once you start swapping them around.
IF you leave the pullies on the hub they originally came on, you are always good to go. If you remove the pullies and put them on a different hub, your marks WILL be off by some amount.
01-01-09, 08:45 PM
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The hub is the round metal chunk that slides on the end of the e-shaft, and is held on by the big bad 19mm bolt. It has 4 holes in it, for the pulleys to bolt to.
The way this works is...the eshaft, and hub, are keyed together. Your stock leading timing mark should be 90* away from the keyway in the shaft/hub (clockwise as viewed from the front). If you have a hub/pulley combo off the motor, you can simply pick it up, hold the keyway at the top, and the timing mark should be exactly at 3 oclock on the pulley.
IF the stuff is on the motor, the head of the 19mm bolt covers up the keyway so you can't make this judgement. Removing that bolt can be a bitch and can also lead to other problems under the front cover, so I don't recommend removing it once installed.
Back to the hub...it has a keyway that indexes it to the shaft. There are 4 holes drilled for the pullies. Then the pullies bolt onto that. You would think that the factory would have referenced the 4 hole pattern versus the keyway in the hub...but they did not. They just drilled those 4 holes at random with respect to the keyway. Then they bolted on a pulley, and THEN they made the timing marks.
This means that, though every hub will bolt to every engine, and every pulley can bolt to every hub, the marks can vary greatly once you start swapping them around.
IF you leave the pullies on the hub they originally came on, you are always good to go. If you remove the pullies and put them on a different hub, your marks WILL be off by some amount.
The way this works is...the eshaft, and hub, are keyed together. Your stock leading timing mark should be 90* away from the keyway in the shaft/hub (clockwise as viewed from the front). If you have a hub/pulley combo off the motor, you can simply pick it up, hold the keyway at the top, and the timing mark should be exactly at 3 oclock on the pulley.
IF the stuff is on the motor, the head of the 19mm bolt covers up the keyway so you can't make this judgement. Removing that bolt can be a bitch and can also lead to other problems under the front cover, so I don't recommend removing it once installed.
Back to the hub...it has a keyway that indexes it to the shaft. There are 4 holes drilled for the pullies. Then the pullies bolt onto that. You would think that the factory would have referenced the 4 hole pattern versus the keyway in the hub...but they did not. They just drilled those 4 holes at random with respect to the keyway. Then they bolted on a pulley, and THEN they made the timing marks.
This means that, though every hub will bolt to every engine, and every pulley can bolt to every hub, the marks can vary greatly once you start swapping them around.
IF you leave the pullies on the hub they originally came on, you are always good to go. If you remove the pullies and put them on a different hub, your marks WILL be off by some amount.
05-14-09, 02:47 AM
#18
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If the engien was rebuilt and the same pulley was reinstalled and you have a problem with the CAS being fully rotated to one side............read the following thread and post #5 by Mr Green. https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/need-help-setting-ignition-timing-703971/
I had/have the same problem with a 86 na car. Instead of pulling the front cover off and turning the CAS drive gear 180*, I just cut the slot in the CAS a bit with a rotary file so it could rotate a bit more. Ain't removing a front cover for that small problem. Not worth it and no value added doing that.
I had/have the same problem with a 86 na car. Instead of pulling the front cover off and turning the CAS drive gear 180*, I just cut the slot in the CAS a bit with a rotary file so it could rotate a bit more. Ain't removing a front cover for that small problem. Not worth it and no value added doing that.
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