RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

similar port design to mine with the exception mine is more radical, quit trying to find imaginary faults with it AGRT, it isn't the porting.

a loss of 100hp is a fair amount, im thinking the injector timing is off or spray patterns out of whack causing the mixtures to be there but the output from the combustion to be off but i have not dealt with this issue while tuning yet so i'm not sure how it would read on the dyno or AFR readout.

it really just sounds to be a combination of several different small things that combined are all affecting the output.

J-Rat

iTrader: (2)

I am also kind of interested to see if base timing is locked in solid where its supposed to be. I helped J get his base timing, but I he never got back to me on if it worked or not.

Angel Guard Racing Team

Mixture is too rich... Do your tunning using the "ALL RANGE" option so all maps will coincide in mixture. Need to lower fuel mixture, be conservative when doing so and use the dyno to do it... Also get an EGT gauge...

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

AFAIK it worked well. I was there when he called ya....

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I guess you're just skimming through eh?


I believe I mentioned the EGT gauge was a Greddy 52mm with under 3k miles of use.


Why would he use the ALL RANGE option? wouldn't that screw all the maps up, outside of the one you're dealing with?

I doubt you'd need the exact X.XX msec from 7000rpm at 10psi at 2500rpm at 10PSI. I am not a tuner though so I could be wrong....


And two other tuners said he was still lean so your statement that its rich is quite perplexing.....

eriksseven

iTrader: (6)

Hey Wankel7, what springs did you use in your motor? (apex, corner specifically) Also, did you reuse (old) sideseals on the fresh motor?

I just can't imagine having 90psi compression on new housings...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

that all depends if the AFR is accurate, is there any major exhaust leaks? where is the wideband situated in the exhaust? does it have a split air pipe on it still and smog pump for some odd reason?

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

New Mazda springs. New side seals, which took for ever to sand to spec!

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Major exhaust leaks? no James thinks he has one but I have no idea where it would be all the gaskets have around the same mileage as the engine plus 35 miles give or take. The exhaust system was installed just prior to loosing the engine last year(12/04 IIRC) The wideband is at the end of the 80mm RB dp with a custom copper heat sink made by James so the only exhaust leak that would hurt AFR accuracy would be the turbo->DP, engine->mani, mani->turbo.


The car is full non-smog legal. We 'bareblocked' it nixing the rats nest/ap/sap/acv/bac/etc...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

well i would try upping the split, i believe a bit of power is being lost from that being so low. never even heard of many people running it that low with the exception of judge ito but it can only be done if mods support it.

after a little thought, you did set the timing according to haltech's instructions right? the standalone cannot differentiate whether the timing is correct or not so though it may say it is advancing the timing 25-30 degrees if the base timing is off then it could only be advancing 15 degrees or even less depending on how far the timing is off and could explain the flames(yes i know flames can happen but rarely on a properly tuned engine).

Wankel7

Yeah, after the dyno the first thing I did was I rezeroed the timing.

My method for that was -

1. Pull the fuel pump fuse
2. Remove the spark plugs
3. Lock the timing at -5
4. Timing light on L1
5. Santiago cranked the engine with it floored
6. I shot the timing light and adjusted the CAS until the yellow mark was lined up with the pointer.

I will restab the CAS to rule that out though.

I think it is easier to set timing with the engine not running...jrat told me about that method.

The flames were because we were doing the loading on the dyno....and well...we were feathering the throttle so it was above fuel cut...and it was good for flames on decel.

I think there MIGHT be an exhaust leak. I am going to let it suck a lil premix thru a vacuum line and see if any smoke comes out at places besides the mufflers

James

RETed

If this hasn't been mentioned yet, you need to chamfer the ports.
It's hard to tell if the exhaust ports were chamfered, but I know for sure the trailing edge of the intake ports aren't - adding the chamfer here will prevent damage to the side seals when they slide over the port itself.


-Ted

Wankel7

Yeah, I see what your saying in that second secondary port picture...that was before I did what I did to it in the first picture. There is a camfer on the closing part of the port.

What you see in the second picture is an atkins special. No camfer. I added it to the port in the first picture.

James

Angel Guard Racing Team

I'm not skimming... I just missed it... So if you got one then start looking at it, I'm gonna give you a hint... try running between 800 and 1200 degrees... apex seals usually give up around 1400 more or less... And no it will not screw the maps, it will just make them match. What I meant by the porting was that it will affect timming... Let me be more specific... Timing is off and mixture is rich... lean that mf a bit and you will see increase in HP... BTW the first bar of your fuel map never should be higher than the last one... I bet that car just bogs when floored suddenly... The only reason that the engine has not given up is that it is running rich as hell... BTW with that porting you can run up to 30psi of boost (don't) but just to give you an idea... If anybody that is posting opinions would take a look at the maps you will notice that the first bar on his map for secondaries is higher than the one at 15psi mark... Not to mention the are all too high... That setup should give him over 300 ponies. I'm just trying to help not criticize... The car is running rich, start leaning out conservatively and you will see hp go up... Like I said the engine would have seized already if it wasn't for all that fuel...

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

hey just got back from trying a compression check after i switched to a new starter that actually cranked fast and found that I have 100psi in the first 4 or 5 hundred miles of my rebuild so my first low compression figures was because of the slow cranking starter i had before. Just something to try.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

What reasoning are you using for your EGTs?

1400* I assume you mean Farenheit(sp?) not Celcius. 1400F to C is around 760C. I run that EGT ~6-8" away from the exhaust port cruising. I run closer to 800C at WOT. 800C to F is almost 1500F. My compression is still well enough to start every day and drive damn good if I do say so myself. If you were refering to 1400C then my apologies as that temp is beyond the greddy gauge's chart I believe it reads 1300C at the top of the 'redline'

Angel Guard Racing Team

Farenheit... You might be pressing your luck, be careful on how long you run at WOT... I would just like to know the EGT on the dyno just to show how rich he's running... That is the most accurate way of knowing rich or lean status trust me on this one... I'm seriously trying to help here but if you don't trust me I cannot help if everytime I say something I'm gonna get questioned...

Wankel7

Dude, trust me ... I want to hear what you say...at this point I am just treading water (my first ems).

When we were loading on the dyno to hold it at a preset rpm we of course had the car floored. Just wow on how fast the oil temps were coming.

I seem to remember the EGTS under full throttle were around 900-940C (1652F-1724C). My sensor is located right behind the flange of the DP at the turbo. I would have to imagine that its screamn hot out of the engine.

I can see how an EGT could be super usful...when we had the car locked on load I was leaning/enriching and I could see the egt change. I could not play long simply because my oil temp needle was coming up so fast you could see the needle moving.

I saw what you said about 1400F (760C). I just don't see how you could run it that cool.

James

RETed

Dude, that's way too hot...


-Ted

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Is your Haltech setup for -5 (BTDC?) In the thing you said above you mention locking it at -5, not sure if you mean ATDC or what.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I see, please don't be offended by my constant questioning of your replies. I mainly just want to comprehend the reasoning behind what everyone is saying. I don't like to just take someone's word for it 'just because' ya know?



If you mean the staging point, we did that to compensate for what we believe is a fuel pressure drop as the secondaries open up. We did a spend what I would say was a couple of hours smoothing out the hesitation at the transitions in all the maps. Leaning just after the transition always yeilded hesitation, so we did whatever it took to remove that behavior which was fattening the map up at the first bar after stage.

Wankel7

UPDATE

Well, we went out last night and did some tuning.

- We added a boost controler
- It holds about 12-14 psi

- We made the trailing timing more conservitive

- Then we started messing with leading timing.

Before we did that a full power run would yield almost 900C. Then from 3500 rpm to 5000 rpm we advanced the timing 3* from 0psi-15psi. Then did a run. The EGT held steady around 840C and as SOON as the rpm went past 5000 rpm it climbed about 40C.

Then to confirm it was a timing change that affected EGT we advanced 3* to the 5500 rpm map. Did the same thing but the EGT jump didn't happen until after 5500rpm.

Intresting, my timing was way to retarted. We will play with it tonight.

Two things did happen that scared us. The intercooler pipe to the TB blew off...that was loud.

Then we heard around 4k and 10psi a pop from the motor....it just didn't have that detnoation sound. It was so defined. Where detnotation sounds like hollow and airey. Not sure what the sound was.

James

RETed

ORLY?


-Ted

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

YARLY

Wankel7

Well, it is feeling ALOT stronger...gonna keep playing with timing...

I am not gonna have a chance to get her on the dyno. So, I will watch out for advancing it to much where peak tq occures....but I guess that will be just a guess. I am thinking becarful around 4k -5.5k?

James