gold87na

Are there any (dis/)advantages to making my secondary 2 butterflys open in sync with the primary? basically take the delay out of the secondaries. Also is it normal to see wet gas all over the back of the butterflies (i took the TB off 2 mins. after shutting engine off). There was also a visable ammount of gas in the dynamic chamber. The only reason i ask is because i thought the gas got introduced after that point.

SpeedRacer

You can actually remove the 2ndary throttle plates completely. The only disadavantage is on/off throttle transistions are a little more abrupt. You will however gain a little bit of throttle response with them removed, and you may notice a slight increase in upper end HP. As for gas in the dynamic chamber and back of the throttle plates, that isn't normal. Is it possibe it is oil you are seeing? Have you cleaned/oiled your oil-filter element lately? Also it is possible for the PCV to malfunction and pull oil from the oil-filler neck and have it injected into TB.

NZConvertible

You can remove the FIRST set of secondary throttles, not both sets! Otherwise you'd be running an unthrottled engine!
The reason the primary and secondary throttles are staged is to improve low-end performance and light throttle driving. They're all fully open when your foot's on the floor, and there'd be absolutely no performance advantages in having all three throttles start to open together.

gold87na

It definately was gas on the back of the butterflies. I have already done the trottlebody mod and have removed the first of the secondaries. I have also removed the thermowax valve.

I guess I'm going to have to figure out why or how gas is getting to the dynamic chamber. If this helps I have also trying to figure out why my car engine runs so cold. I have not done a compression test (dont have a job/income currently) but I will say for n/a it goes very well.

gold87na

also I am getting REALLY bas gas mileage matbe 7-9mpg

gold87na

some more things that i have done are:
changed o2 sensor (3months ago)
removed dashpot
removed thrmowax & 2nd set of secondaries

The gas i seen on the throttlebody was only on the dynamic chamber side of the butterflies. It got me..

rx7_turbo2

You have already done the TB mod? Then why do the remaining secondary plates stage open. If I am incorrect then please excuse me but the staged throttle plates are the ones that should have been removed. Did you remove the wrong throttle plates? As for the gas I have no idea.

gold87na

no I removed the plates that are even with the thermowax whitch are connected to a vacume actuator. What I was asking was, when you slowly open the throttle your primary will start opening, Then the seconaries will start opening (shortly after). I was wondering if there will be any differance if I take that gap out and have it so both the primary and secondary plates open at the same angle.

NZConvertible

I don't know what you know about the TB, so I'll assume you know nothing. Don't be offended.
There is one throttle in the primary bore, operated directly by the accelerator. Simple. There are two blades in each of the two secondary bores (that's five throttle blades in total!). The first set of secondary throttles (at the front of the TB) are operated by a linkage from the second set, but via a dashpot to slow their operation for a smoother transition when you mash the throttle. These are what are removed in the TB mod. The second set of secondaries (directly in line with the primary throttle) do not start to open until the primary throttle is about ¼ open (i.e. they're staged). This means at low throttle openings it's only the primary throttle and primary ports feeding the engine. This is for higher port velocites, better fuel atomisation, smoother driving, etc, etc.
Phew!

gold87na

Also still pondering why gas is getting into my dynamic chamber and the backside of the TB. Seems to run ok.?

kleach18

Just a question I want to get out of they way that i remebered while reading this. When I removed the TB last time there was oil in it. Is this normal?? Bad sign \Good sign
kleach

Aerosmith145

Posting for guys like me looking for TB Primary gap info (which IS in the FSM - and their measurements ARE flip-flopped *mt vs. at*). No late-posting bashing!!

First of all, NZConvertible, it sounds like he had an S5 throttle body. Mine's the same way - cold engine, the FRONT secondaries are closed. Warm, they're open. That's all there is to them on that TB.

Next, does anyone know which measurement is CORRECT on primary butterfly gap before the secondaries (rear! via linkage - S5) open? The FSM says .025-.030 for 5spds, and .040-.065 for autos.

But then right next to that, there's an image of throttle body plate angles, where the M/T version is open MORE! AHHHH!

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

Well, a little reversion into the intake is pretty normal, this is why the inside of the intake before the injectors can still get carboned up. But if your actually seeing liquid fuel there minutes after the engine is shut down and getting really poor mileage ( you should get way more than that around town) you may just be running super rich.

What all do you have done to your car ( besides the TB stuff you already mentioned ) and what model is it?

Aerosmith145

I just realized that my post marked EXACTLY SEVEN YEARS since the last post. I feel.. even later. :P

RandomHero

iTrader: (2)

oh wow, lol. caught me too.

Aerosmith145

Since this is 7 years old, will somebody chime in on my inquiry? Has anyone else noticed this assumed misprint in the FSM?

Makes you wonder what else is wrong..