2nd Generation Specific (1986-1992) 1986-1992 Discussion including performance modifications and technical support sections.
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Old 02-19-09, 10:25 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Dltreezan
Man what a mess. One of these days I am going to have a shop make the stuff for me. Anyhow I was making a joke about "altercation" when he meant alteration. I was just being a smart ***.
yeah it was funny, I laughed!
Old 02-20-09, 11:47 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
I'm not one to say it's wrong and quite frankly neither are you regardless of how smart you 'think' you are.
You have a lot of gall to make a statement like that...

Me:
- Two college degrees in science which include courses in thermodynamics, engine theory, centrifugal and axial-flow turbine theory, engine performance planning, and the Earth's atmosphere.
- SAE member
- Certified ISO 9001 Auditor
- 8 years of experience as a professional engine performance planner
- 2 years of experience analyzing turbine engines
- Hired to work on special projects for NASA, NOAA, and Boeing

You:
- Dropped out of school
- No industry experience at all

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I think it is totally irresponsible for you to post to this forum data from unverified and dubious sources and to make bold statements as if you were a subject matter expert when in fact you are completely and totally ignorant with respect to the subject.

Just for clarification, I do not consider myself a subject matter expert, either. However, I do have enough background to know when something just doesn't look right. I can also run basic calculations to verify data, and yours does not pass this test. Unfortunately, most of the forum members reading your thread do not know any better, and now they are even more ignorant if they take your unsubstantiated observations as fact.

Originally Posted by nillahcaz
record improperly
^ This is what I think happened. The problem is that the OP does not have the background to realize this.

Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
I will send $100 to the first person who posts a legitimate turbocharger compressor map produced by the manufacturer which clearly shows the peak thermal efficiency island labeled with a number lower than 65%.
Still waiting to send somebody $100.
Old 02-20-09, 12:04 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Roen
Bryan, could you comment on the exhaust side being restrictive and what could be done to free it up, factoring in spool time and compressor output, as well as engine reliability due to exhaust restrictiveness?
The exhaust side on a S4 is actually pretty nice in design. Its open and has a twin scroll valve in the exhaust manifold to improve velocity which is great for response. If you remove it, the turbo will gain 10-20 RWHP in the long run once you upgrade everything. The S4 turbine housing is very nice and it can be opened up and ported to flow more volume. The wastegate also can be majorly reworked to flow way more to control the boost even with a big turbo. I don't see much beyond the 400 RWHP mark, but i am going to try to make more with one.

The manifold and the turbine housing in a S5 is restrictive, but it can be modified to flow more by porting the manifold runners, making a new turbo manifold gasket and then port matching the turbine housing runners to the exhaust manifold runners. This reduces back pressure and also helps control boost better. The Turbines and housing can further be modified but that comes with upgrading the unit. I can see 400 RWHP with a S5 once it is opened up. If not, I don't see much more than 370ish. The manifold is what needs the magic.

Bryan@BNR
Old 02-20-09, 12:21 PM
  #54  
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I wasn't aware that the S5 manifold and turbine housing was more restrictive. In my head it doesn't seem right, but your the expert bryan. Have you tried building a new manifold that accepts the S5 & S4 flange? It may go nicely with a stage 3+ kit if it improves turbo response and life.
Old 02-20-09, 01:13 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
You have a lot of gall to make a statement like that...

Me:
- Two college degrees in science which include courses in thermodynamics, engine theory, centrifugal and axial-flow turbine theory, engine performance planning, and the Earth's atmosphere.
- SAE member
- Certified ISO 9001 Auditor
- 8 years of experience as a professional engine performance planner
- 2 years of experience analyzing turbine engines
- Hired to work on special projects for NASA, NOAA, and Boeing

You:
- Dropped out of school
- No industry experience at all

While I appreciate your enthusiasm, I think it is totally irresponsible for you to post to this forum data from unverified and dubious sources and to make bold statements as if you were a subject matter expert when in fact you are completely and totally ignorant with respect to the subject.

Just for clarification, I do not consider myself a subject matter expert, either. However, I do have enough background to know when something just doesn't look right. I can also run basic calculations to verify data, and yours does not pass this test. Unfortunately, most of the forum members reading your thread do not know any better, and now they are even more ignorant if they take your unsubstantiated observations as fact.


^ This is what I think happened. The problem is that the OP does not have the background to realize this.


Still waiting to send somebody $100.
I didn't make anything up. I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm not trying to portray any technology over another. I have nothing to gain by sharing information. As such I really have no reason to lie or make anything up either. As I said, I am merely sharing some information from a stack of things that I've acquired over the years. I didn't make it up or do these tests myself so I can't be held responsible for what the results are. I am merely passing it along. That's it. Why on Earth would I purposely spread bad info? I can't think of a good reason to and it's not April 1st. I am most certainly capable of reading comprehension and definitely know what I'm seeing though. Plain english isn't very hard to read when that's your only language.

Like I said, what you 'think' you know. Especially about me which isn't correct but I'll let you believe whatever you want. I told you I'm not getting into a pissing match with you. You're a nobody to me and I'm sure I don't matter to you so get over it. Unless you've got nothing better to do with your life than complain about people sharing info that they've found, move on. If you want to prove something, go prove it. Conduct some tests. You imply that you have the ability to. I won't even complain if your test results show what I have to be wrong. I'd even be happy if it did as people would at least learn something during the testing. Teach something for once rather than spouting off whimsical bs about someone else's data all day. As I said, I'm just a messenger. Getting pissed off at me isn't going to get you anywhere since I could care less who you are or what you think you know. You just don't matter to me and I could care less what you think in return.
Old 02-20-09, 03:03 PM
  #56  
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Perfect response, Fred.

B
Old 02-20-09, 04:43 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Evil Aviator
I will send $100 to the first person who posts a legitimate turbocharger compressor map produced by the manufacturer which clearly shows the peak thermal efficiency island labled with a number lower than 65%.
This is about as close as you're going to get: https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/stock-turbo-wheel-size-818137/.

I seriously doubt there is a compressor map from Hitachi/Mazda floating around somewhere, so you'll have to settle for estimates based on Garrett turbos with similar wheel measurements. Both of the maps in that thread (T3 50 trim & GT2259) put the efficiency of the stock turbo below 65% in the 30-40 lbs. of air flow range.
Old 02-20-09, 09:46 PM
  #58  
"your turbo source"

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Originally Posted by WingsofWar
I wasn't aware that the S5 manifold and turbine housing was more restrictive. In my head it doesn't seem right, but your the expert bryan. Have you tried building a new manifold that accepts the S5 & S4 flange? It may go nicely with a stage 3+ kit if it improves turbo response and life.
The turbine housing isn't the restriction in the S5, but the manifold just doesnt flow. The front runner turns 2 90's and squeezes down in size. Being so close to the engine combined with the runners size and length, it hurts flow. You can still make good power on it, don't get me wrong. The S4's manifold is open and the exhaust atleast has a sort of a plenum to fill up before it enters the turbine housing.

People for years favored S5's. Now the wastegate woes of the S4 have been eliminated and the S4 turbocharger system has as much or more potential than the S5 units. The S4's were pretty much useless w/o major surgery to the wastegate assembly.

I don't get into making manifolds. Just not worth the time. You can get a T4 manifold now cheap.

Bryan@BNR
Old 02-21-09, 01:20 AM
  #59  
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Wouldn't a manifold designed to flow more than the stock S5 manifolds, but still be used with the philosophy of "bolt-on simplicity" for S5's be worth something on the open market? Unless there's an aftermarket one readily available?
Old 02-21-09, 09:38 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by nillahcaz
nice sales pitch.

and um... this is the second gen forum, whats with this single turbo conversions stuff?
I wouldn't call that a sales pitch at all. It's simply stating Bryan's observed facts. Bolt on units can make >2X the power of stock.

Originally Posted by nillahcaz
I under stand this. My point is in the second gen forum there is little point to talk about "going single" or "single turbo conversions."
He's saying "going single," would it make a difference if he said, "going big single." He's trying to get people to understand that you don't need to drop and immense amoutn of cash on turbos, manifolds, wastegates, piping, custom fuel systems etc etc etc to crest the 350 - 400 RWHP mark. Reworking choked designs and using different compressor/turbine wheels can achieve this goas at a fraction of the cost.

Originally Posted by Roen
Wouldn't a manifold designed to flow more than the stock S5 manifolds, but still be used with the philosophy of "bolt-on simplicity" for S5's be worth something on the open market? Unless there's an aftermarket one readily available?
Why Roen? S4 turbos/manifolds can be had on the cheap. From what I'm hearing, it's not so much the manifold design that's the choking point, it's more the bolt-on philiospy. If that makes sense.
Old 02-21-09, 06:09 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by rotarygod
I am merely passing it along.
Merely passing along the information would have been fine if you qualified the data up front. However, you took it upon yourself to include your own analysis, such as:

- This little bit of info goes out to all those people who criticize other forms of forced induction such as roots blowers on the grounds that they aren't "efficient".
- I just remember seeing people criticize roots blowers long ago on the grounds that turbos are always more efficient. Not true yet some wouldn't concede to that saying that they are.
- You can use a nice aftermarket turbo and NO intercooler at stock boost levels and be fine is one thing I see.

This is NOT merely passing along information, so you can stop feigning the passive messenger charade. Nice try, but no dice.

Originally Posted by rotarygod
As such I really have no reason to lie or make anything up either.
I am not accusing you of lying. I am accusing you of ignorance and irresponsibility. Just look at all of the forum members who replied that they thought this was a good thread, or that it should be archived. God help us. If I posted something this bad by accident I would ask the moderators to delete it or at least edit it so as not to cause any more damage.

Originally Posted by rotarygod
You just don't matter to me and I could care less what you think in return.
Your misinformation and flawed analysis does not affect me at all, so that is not my issue here. However, what about the hundreds of forum members who will read your thread and believe it because they don't know any better? Are you really so self-centered that you don't care about them at all?

Originally Posted by RotaryRocket88
This is about as close as you're going to get: https://www.rx7club.com/showthread.php?t=818137.

I seriously doubt there is a compressor map from Hitachi/Mazda floating around somewhere, so you'll have to settle for estimates based on Garrett turbos with similar wheel measurements. Both of the maps in that thread (T3 50 trim & GT2259) put the efficiency of the stock turbo below 65% in the 30-40 lbs. of air flow range.
My major disagreement is with the statement "The stock TII turbo at it's MAX efficiency point is only 49% efficient!!! Ouch!" The OP's statements did NOT take into consideration the 13B's flow rate, but rather referenced the HT-18 turbo's max efficiency, and then he went on to compare it to the max efficiency of Roots superchargers.

However, since you have brought it up due to your better understanding of the subject than the OP, the pressure ratio line on a compressor map would be somewhere around the 1.54 range for an S4 TII when using Garrett's dry air parcel numbers. If you interpolate the 1.54 PR mark and follow it across the efficiency bands on the Garrett T3 50 map, it intersects the 75% efficiency boundary line around the 10 lb/min mark. Yes, the efficiency would go down as the flow rate approaches the max operating range of the engine. However, the OP did not make an efficiency claim based on this value, but rather the MAX efficiency value, which quite obviously is not 49% as he stated. We need to compare apples to apples here.

The compressor maps in your link show 75-76% max efficiency islands, which is fairly typical of modern turbochargers. I do have some old Rajay compressor maps showing as little as 70% peak efficiency. I would really like to see a map with a peak efficiency island below 65%, and that is why I was very specific about the terms of my $100 challenge. Please keep trying.

Originally Posted by BDC
Perfect response, Fred.

B
As always, thank you for the comic relief.

Originally Posted by NotTTT
I wouldn't call that a sales pitch at all.
I agree. In fact, I consider the excellent BNR side discussion to be the only redeeming portion of this thread.
Old 02-21-09, 06:39 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Evil Aviator

As always, thank you for the comic relief.

Atleast I've got the ***** to do real-world testing and post both my successes and failures so folks can learn instead of beating my chest and shoving my resume down everyone else's throat.

B
Old 02-21-09, 09:18 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by BDC
Atleast I've got the ***** to do real-world testing and post both my successes and failures so folks can learn instead of beating my chest and shoving my resume down everyone else's throat.

B
1. If you had a better resume then the majority of your testing would not be necessary.
2. I find it strange that you discount my professional real-world testing experience as "beating my chest", yet you defend the undocumented numbers which are the subject of this thread.
3. As you stated, you post YOUR results and you quite plainly qualify them as such. I have never known you to post unverified numbers from a dubious source and pretend that it is gospel. It would be nice if the OP emulates your example in the future.
Old 02-22-09, 12:52 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by NotTTT
Why Roen? S4 turbos/manifolds can be had on the cheap. From what I'm hearing, it's not so much the manifold design that's the choking point, it's more the bolt-on philiospy. If that makes sense.

Follow ups to that would be:

1. Is there interchangeability between the S5 turbo (from what I've gathered, the S5 BNR Turbo is still superior to the S4 BNR Turbo) and the S4 manifold?
2. If not, is the S4 BNR Turbo and Manifold a straight bolt-on swap to the S5 engine bay setup?
3. What is the utmost you can get from the bolt-on philosophy, such that, past a certain goal, you're forced to go custom? I guess that is what I'm trying to get a clearer sense for.

My interest is this is to see how far I can take a complete bolt-on setup.
Old 02-22-09, 09:08 AM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by Roen
Follow ups to that would be:

1. Is there interchangeability between the S5 turbo (from what I've gathered, the S5 BNR Turbo is still superior to the S4 BNR Turbo) and the S4 manifold?
2. If not, is the S4 BNR Turbo and Manifold a straight bolt-on swap to the S5 engine bay setup?
3. What is the utmost you can get from the bolt-on philosophy, such that, past a certain goal, you're forced to go custom? I guess that is what I'm trying to get a clearer sense for.

My interest is this is to see how far I can take a complete bolt-on setup.
1) - I don't know about mixing S4 manis' with S5 turbos. I'm going to say "no" based on the pictures of exhaust mani gaskets that I just looked up

2) I believe it is. If it's not, you're looking at minor modifications to plumbing. Most of which I would do anyway.

3) Looks like around 400RWHP is about the most you can get from a bolt on philiosophy. Now, and mabye Bryan can comment on this, how stressed is the engine due to EBP at that point? I feel that one thing that alot of people don't take into consideration is the overlap present in these motors and that excessive amounts of EBP can lead to pre-ignition.
Old 02-22-09, 11:12 AM
  #66  
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I guess the 400 whp from the stage 4 would be a complete lag monster next to a 400 whp twin turbo RE, right?
Old 02-22-09, 02:17 PM
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Yeah When sequential I had good positive pressure by 2k (& this was with a heavily damaged primary turbo turbine wheel) and non sequential positive pressure by 3.2k and more than wastegate pressure (~9.5lbs which is ~ 2lbs of creep) by mid 4's. The nose of the car lifted running 5k springs. Talking about this makes me want to buy two new housings and end the waiting. Thanks Roen.

Oh, that was with bone stock ports, the next motor will be both intake and exhaust ported.

Now that being said, stock twins should be good for 350-380 which isn't the 400 that the stage 4 has. I dileberatly traded higher HP for MUCH better response.

On that note though, when the secondary cartridge does eat it, I plan on going BNR Stage 3's becuase again, I think best bang for the buck lies in what Bryan is doing. That setup though will be good for ~415RWHP sequential. Hopefully more becuase I'm planning, and I need to talk to Bryan about this more in detail before I do it, doing ALOT of work to the manifold and the turbine housings. Porting, port-matching and ceramic coating. I would like to see 425RWHP sequentialy.
Old 02-22-09, 03:12 PM
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This is a really interesting read chaps and I will take from it little bits here and there where I have to. Too much macho stuff going on here but that does not matter as you are being ignored anyway. People are interested regardless of where the info came from, If anyone is serious about upgrading turbos or even going to a supercharger then they will do so having done their homework before shelling out their hard earned cash and not based on this one thread alone. Lets face it the original thread is about efficiency of turbos and superchargers and what may be good for our application, it would be nice if it stayed on topic.
Old 02-22-09, 11:16 PM
  #69  
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Yes, back in 1988 Grass Roots Motorsports had a project TII and found out what Rotary God has stated.

From what I remember, the stock turbo was at ~40% efficiency from peak power onward at stock boost and the intercooler did have a pressure drop of 1 psi at stock 5.5psi boost...
Old 02-23-09, 12:50 AM
  #70  
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How did they test it? The turbo will change drastically in efficiency and so will the intercooler depending on air temp, absolute pressure, relative humidity, etc.

and you say from "peak power onward" if this is true it could *its not* But could be at 99% efficiency at some point before peak power and that statement would still hold true. Also if this is the case would the current peak power still be "peak power" if the turbo where more efficient at that point?
Old 02-25-09, 12:01 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Roen
I guess the 400 whp from the stage 4 would be a complete lag monster next to a 400 whp twin turbo RE, right?
lag? i start boosting at 2k with my stg 4. i mean yes twins will spool alittle fast but....
Old 02-25-09, 12:45 PM
  #72  
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I think NotTTT might be at full boost at 2k......or, some ridiculously low rpm.
Old 02-25-09, 02:47 PM
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Damn close to it. This was also in 1st & 2nd gear too. It's not like I was on the highway ~45 in 4th and punched it. That would probably net >10lbs. Don't know. The one time she was on the highway she was running <.7L and bucking violently when attempting to accelerate at more than a gentle rate.

Found some housings so in a few weeks I'll be able to elaborate and post a few data logs hopefully.
Old 02-28-09, 10:56 PM
  #74  
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My S5 BNR stage 4 makes ~2psi boost by 2,000rpm, only has ~7psi boost at 2,500rpm and full 14psi at 3,300rpm.

Not laggy at all, but definitely not as much 2,000 to 3,000rpm punch as sequential twins!
Old 02-28-09, 11:15 PM
  #75  
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Okay, my 5 year old memories were a little off.

88 TII turbo was 49% efficient at the motors stock peak airflow rate and note its efficiency drops off past 5,000rpm...

Here an excerpt of the GRM project with the most relevant information

PART IV: UPGRADING THE TURBO SYSTEM

This is the fourth and final installment in our Project RX-7 Turbo series. In the past three months, we've
optimized the performance of our 1988 Mazda for SCCA C Stock Solo II competition, then upgraded the
suspension for A Street Prepared action. The final step is to upgrade straight line performance for Street
Prepared competition. In keeping with the nature of our project, we want to increase power without
sacrificing new car reliability; the simplest way to do this is to increase the turbo's efficiency by adding
Cartech Performance Systems' intercooler upgrade kit.

In order to develop products for upgrading the Mazda Turbo II, Cartech spent ten months living with the
factory turbo under various conditions and at varying levels of modification. As with all their development
projects, Cartech development manager Todd Wilson went through an extensive exercise in determining
baseline turbo, intercooler, fuel, air inlet, ignition and exhaust system efficiency prior to making any changes.
This included instrumenting and measuring most or all of the following on the stock vehicle operating on 92
octane fuel:

Ambient air temperature
Barometric pressure
Air/fuel ratio*
Vacuum ahead of compressor inlet*
Compressor discharge pressure (intercooler inlet)*
Compressor discharge temperature (intercooler inlet)*
Intercooler discharge pressure (before throttle)*
Actual pressure in intake after throttle plate
Exhaust manifold pressure before turbo*
Exhaust backpressure after turbo, ahead of all converters and mufflers, plus individual readings ahead
of each individual point of restriction
Exhaust gas temperature*
Tailpipe temperature*
Actual cooling system temperature
Underhood temperatures at air filter inlet, behind radiator, air inlet to i.c., air discharge from i.c.
Timing changes related to boost pressure - at varying levls betwen 0 & stock max boost

Once these baselies are complete, a plan is outlined to concentrate effort an those areas weakest in the base
car's various systems. In the case of the Mazda RX-7 Turbo II, the results showed that the following major
areas could be improved.

PROBLEM AREAS & SOLUTIONS - EXHAUST BACKPRESSURE

The stock exhaust has four points of restriction. First and second are the two monolith convertors on the
turbo outlet; third is the main catalytic, and fourth are the dual rear mufflers. Starting from the rear, the
measured amount of pressure ahead of the mufflers showed that the factory produced a good-flowing
muffler with only 2 psi of restrictions. The main cat showed a tolerable 3.5 psi restriction, and the two
monoliths rendered an additional 5 psi restriction.

So what does backpressure have to do with performance? Simply put: If the burned exhaust can't flow out
the tallpipe, then a reversion of outward flowing gas occurs at the combustion area, along with not allowing
maximum inlet flow, this increases combustion temperatures and lowers horsepower. Even more directly,
lowering this backpressure in a turbo car results in a noticeable increase in boost response.

Cartech offers the autocrosser, for off-highway use, a high flow header from the back of the turbo to the "Y"
intersection of the stock exhaust. This bolt in/out replacement eliminated over 80% of the total exhaust
restriction, and wakes up the boost response dramatically.

INTERCOOLER EFFICIENCY

The most critical concerns In any turbo design are maintaining a proper air to fuel mix in the combustion
chamber, and keeping the combustion temperatures low enough so that the air/fuel mix does not explode
ahead of the flame front (i.e. ignition spark). When this explosion due to too small a fuel versus air mix or too
high a combustion temperature occurs, it is called 'detonation.' Detonation is several hundred times more
violent than normal spark-ignited, controlled combustion the results of this violence can, in instants,
necessitate several thousand dollars worth of overhaul repairs.

Even though the stock car operates at a very modest 5.5 psi of boost pressure, the RX-7 benefits from a
sophisticated electronic feedback sensor capable of listening for detonation and adjusting the ignition
advance/retard level to protect the engine several hundred times every revolution. Cartech found that the
large injectors and the aggressive fuel curve afforded by the stock EFI rendered a correct air/fuel mixture to a
level of about 8 psi without lowering discharge temperatures; with other improvements, it was possible to
run safely to the 11 psi range before additional modification to the fuel system was required.

In measuring the intercooler efficiency the stock car showed a heat rejection of 68% of the incoming
temperature from the turbo above ambient, and a pressure restriction of 1 psi at 5.5 psi of boost. The
pressure restriction is important, since for every psi of boost lost the turbo must produce that much more to
equal the desired boost at the engine; and for every psi of work the Mazda produces, there is a rise in
compressor discharge temperatures before the intercooler of approximately 22 degrees. So, in the case of
the Mazda, the turbo is called on to produce a temperature equivalent to that at 6.5 psi boost in order to
achieve a 5.5 psi pressure in the intake manifold. In addition, a pressure restriction is a percentage of total
boost; so as boost rises, so does the restriction, which further exacerbates the condition.

The reasons for the stock intercooler's lack of efficiency are two-fold. First, the heat rejection surface area is
located at a less-than-optimum position for air flow. In fact, according to a drawing Mazda supplied to Rotary
Rocket (a magazine for Mazda owners), which that magazine published in its December '85 Collectors'
Edition, the designers would have done much better to point the air intake for the intercooler back toward the
windshield. The area they did select receives very poor flow, because it is smack in the middle of a pressure
zone where the air is moving upward. The optimum location would be ahead of the radiator; however, we
can understand Mazda's reluctance to locate it there due to the massive complications that location would
create. The second area of inefficiency, pressure restriction, is even more fundamental; the intercooler lacks
internal flow area. This area, which on the stock intercooler measures right at six square inches, is again
forced by the location and resultant physical size. There are two common ways to increase the flow area on
an air to air unit: one is to increase the size of the complete intercooler; the other is to change the internal
aerodynamic shape of the heat transfer core. A third solution involves redesigning the system as an air to
water unit.

Cartech's solution began with building, installing, and testing three different air to air intercooler units. All
three maintained the stock location, but the smallest more than doubled the total intercooler size. The
pressure losses came down, but the heat transfer was only modestly improved. A serious effort to locate the
intercooler up front was proposed; but it did not look like this could be accomplished without requiring the
consumer to own a body shop so he or she could reconstruct the Mazda's sheet metal. So, in order to
simplify the Installation, a more complicated plan for intercooling was necessary, thus Cartech arrived at this
plan for the world's first twin-pathway air to water intercooling unit.

Cartech has built air to water intercoolers for a number of years, but the typical single path air to water unit
has an efficiency that is generally accepted to be in the mid-70% range. This is good, considerlng that the
given flow area in this method of intercooling is much greater, and the result is typically a much lower
pressure loss (a norm of about . 1 psi). At 70%, however it is not good enough to suggest that the owner of a
new Mazda Turbo II should scrap his or her original unit,

So the Cartech engineers arrived at the idea of producing an intercooler plenum that bolted into the position
of the stock intercooler, but had two completely separate pathways (two separate intercooler core units)
inside. The twin-pathway design would offer the user a combined efficiency of 86%.

Air to water units have an air to air intercooler welded into a plenum. These units flow the water through the
pathway normally carrying the pressurized air, while blowing the pressurized air across what is normally the
frontal or heat rejection surface area. A small electric pump then moves the water from a reservoir to the front
of the car where the heat rejection coolers are located. So the twin pathway design contains two intercoolers
in the plenum, two reservoirs, two pumps and two coolers running one after the other.

TURBO COMPRESSOR EFFICIENCY*

The rotary engine is an interesting application for turbo use, in that it produces an extremely high amount of
exhaust heat and velocity. This is largely due to the two cycle function and the associated firing of the
combustion chamber at closer intervals than are found in four cycle piston engines. Cartech learned to
exploit this high exhaust gas velocity by utilizing very large turbos on applications for the non-turbo Mazda;
they also worked hard to find ways to modify the stock Mazda turbo unit for a similar advantage.

The reason it was felt that a larger turbo would be beneficial is that the stock turbo has a measured efficiency
of only 49% at the peak flow rate of the motor. A 49% rating shows a little better pumping efficiency than that
of a positive displacement supercharger (commonly considered to be peaked out at about 42%); this is
nowhere near the current 70 to 75% which is considered "state of the art" in terms of turbos.

Just what is compressor efficiency? This is the difference between the actual temperature discharged from
the compressor at the maximum flow rate of the engine, and the calculated thermodynamic ideal. This ideal is
arrived at by an accepted thermal formula. So, to put it another way, efficiency = discharge temp. ideal /
discharge temp. actual.

The next question is: why doesn't the factory install a larger turbo - or, more exactly, why do they tolerate
such a low thermodynamic efficiency? To answer this question, we can only guess that Mazda's choice of
turbos was probably the result of a combination of searching for instant low speed response and
compromising efficiency in order to utilize a turbo size already available from their vendor.

In answer to the question of response, Cartech has found that the properly sized, 70+ % efficient turbos
used in their own applications provide a boost response target allows full boost by 3,000 rpm and continues
to pull strongly all tile way to 7,500 rpm. Conversely, the Mazda factory turbo develops full boost by 2,600
rpm, but falls off noticeably by 5,000 rpm. This is due to the compressor dropping off the efficiency curve,
and the associated rise in exhaust manifold back pressure as the turbo requires more shaft speed to
produce the same boost pressure in proportion to the rise in CFM of the engine at higher rpm. Note that as
boost pressure is raised above the factory level of 5.5 psi, the ability to perceive the turbo "falling off" is
increased.

What Cartech offers as their solution is an increase in the compressor size. This solution was selected
instead of a complete turbo change, in order to keep costs down and to maintain the low speed response
offered by the stock twin scroll exhaust manifold ports. The compressor change results in an increase of
compressor efficiency to about 66%, which is enough to afford a reduction in temperature of about two
degrees per psi. Although this reduction seems small, it is enough to justify raising the boost pressure from
9 psi to 10 psi without an increase in the temperature seen at the engine.

Although this modification involves altering the compressor or 'cold' side only, SCCA Solo Board Chairman
Gregg Lee did say in a telephone conversation that he would not consider it legal for Street Prepared
competition. This is a gray area, however, so check your local club rates. At any rate, this step in the upgrade
process is worth an additional 10 hp or so at most, and can be omitted.

Results

Chassis dyno testing of Cartech's compressor upgrade, thier dual path intercooler system and an off-road
exhaust system produced a rear-wheel horsepower of 239. Before modification the stock car tested ran just
151 hp! This would tend to validate Cartech's conservative estimate of 265 bhp.

Of course, all this technical data is great, but it doesn't answer the most important question: How does this
upgrade kit perform in the real world? With the aforementioned modifications in place, our Project RX-7
Turbo is cornpletely docile in traffic. It doesn't idle differently from the factory car. It's not appreciably louder
than the original car. It doesn't start hard. It doesn't run hot . This is truly a remarkable "hop-up" modification.
High tech performance is very different in the eighties, compared to the relatively crude modifications made
twenty years ago.

How much high tech performance are we talking about? There is virtually no turbo lag. The turbo starts to
come on strong at just over 2000 rpm. Four thousand rpm comes quickly; 6000 rpm comes so quickly, you
don't remember to shift until the you feel the rev limiter. In fact, our upgraded Mazda RX-7 Turbo recorded a
best 0 - 60 of 5.83 seconds. This represents a 19.5% increase over our stock time of 7.25 seconds! This is
true world class performance for a street car that will still commute back and forth to work.

On the Auto-X test course, we did even better. We started with an average lap time of 46.454 seconds for the
stock car; we ended tip with an average time of 43.455.

The Cartech approach to improved turbo performance is to lower the thermal stresses, and then raise the
boost back to a point at or below the stock thermal load. The company feels that this approach is the only
logical way in which factory-type durability can be maintained when turning up the boost. Some turbo
upgrades may promise more, but few manufacturers have invested the thought and planning required to
assure engine safety. The Cartech system is not cheap, but look at it this way: the price of this upgrade does
not have to include the cost of regular engine overhauls!


Quick Reply: For those who think turbos are ALWAYS efficient



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