RRTEC

iTrader: (13)

Part it then crush it.... Or give it to Ncross and he will get it back on the road..lol

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

I just got finished trying all of that and more, everything i could find online, the FSM and hyans manual. And just can't get the idle below 1500 unless i close the TB by hand, and then i am not sure if it is the TPS or the TB that is causing it to drop.

Plus when it does idle lower it gets real rough.

Though i did start messing with the crank sensor and noticed it would greatly change how the car idled. Does anyone know how to set that right?

NCross

iTrader: (18)

CAS will affect it pretty good. When I did my last swap I had it installed crooked and not all the way clamped down to the front cover. It started and ran... but it went crank thump crank thump crank thump crank thump thump smoke smoke start....

The front cover is made of low quality aluminum and it is easy to strip the 10mm bolt hole. My recommendation is to use an over sized length bolt. Maybe 1 1/2 inches long. That way you can torque it down good and not strip the female threads.

**POSSIBLE STUPID QUESTION**

There was no intake funnel or filter pictured... please tell me one is connected while running the car??

NCross

iTrader: (18)

Also, is the car premixed? The reason why it smokes is because the seals get sealed better when hot. due to thermal expansion. Its probably just running rich until warm due to vac leaks and seal leaks.

DeMoe Aurelius

iTrader: (4)

thatnk you for that info for my problems.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Yeah, the CAS could very well be my problem, when i got the car is was just sitting in there and i pressed it down to lock it in, it is still ont screwed down. But i can't seemto find how to reinstall it correctly.

Yes, under the hood everything looks like it did bone stock as far as the engine is concerned. Ait hose and box installed ect.


Yes, the car is running premix until i can get the banjo bolts to the OMP so i can install those lines. But it is not smokeing hardly at all anymore, that was just the first startup when it was burning all of the oil i put in the rotor off. Now just a little smoke at startup then no smoke, exahust smells pretty bad but no smoke.

Really, other than not having sec. injectors hooked up (waiting for the correct ones to get here) and thus not able to rev above 4000rpm it runs pretty darn good except for the idle.

Thanks for the help.

NCross

iTrader: (18)

no secondaries could cause lumpy idle to i believe. they still squirt a little under 3800RPM. Is the air pump hooked up correctly? put a bit of PB blaster on the aux. port actuators and finger them open and clsed a few times to make sure theyre functioning. how much premix are you doing?

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well the idle is actually perfect, it just won't go below 1500rpm. And if i manuall force the TB closed/the TPS sensor closed more it will drop some more and then it gets rough.

Yeah, i need to look at those AUX ports, keepmening to do that but since i can't actually drive the car or even rev it above 3800 have not had a reason yet.

I am running a little oil heavy premix right now just to make sure that it gets plenty of luberacation as it has not been ran for 2 years. About 2.5oz a gallon.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Adjust the TPS (there are plenty of write-ups on here about it), make sure that the throttle cable isnt binding, and check around for vacuum leaks. Also, if the thermowax is still on the TB, make sure that it has coolant lines running to it, otherwise that could be what is propping the throttle open. Its basically a heat-dependent throttle stop that makes the car idle higher when its cool.

I'm just about certain that the secondaries dont do anything below 3800 rpm, since they are sitting in intake tracts that are stagnant at low throttle openings. The 3800 rpm boundary is kind-of mazda's way of making sure that those tracts would be open and that the fuel would get to the engine instead of just sitting in the intake.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

I have proibly read all of those TPS write-ups and done them too lol. Tried the lights (by using a volt meter to see if they would be on or not), tried the voltage, and tried the Ohms. All of which don't help anything.

Not sure what or where the thermowax is but this just might be it, i know there are coolent lines going to the intake, when i was changing out vacume lines i pulled one off and could not figure out what it was for. But i know that when i manually close the TB it is not like a metal stop and that Thermowax sounds like what i am feeling. How do you test/fix that?

Thanks again!

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Ok, i was just looking through the 86 and guess what i found in the storage compartment?

2 more TPS sensors. So how exactly do you test these and are they supposed to work?

Both of these ohm out to the same, and they are both the same as the one on the car.

from the top pin to 1 of the other pins goes from ~250 ohms - 2000ohms at about half way out then drops to nothing.

The other pin then starts at half way and goes until all the way out. I guess this is how they are supposed to work?

I just can't get the idle lower then 1500, that thermowax stuff is the best lead i have so far, i just wish i knew how to test/override it.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Pictures of the thermowax:
https://www.rx7club.com/2nd-generation-specific-1986-1992-17/wtf-768645/

How to test it/how it should be hooked up are in the FSM under Fuel and Emissions Control IIRC:
http://www.wankel.net/~krwright/cars/rx7/88_manual.htm

Im guessing that you've tried just adjusting the little screw sitting right on top of the throttle body... this is the main way of adjusting idle on NA's.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Oh yes, i have that screw closed tight, that is what got the idle down to 1500 from 2500.

I know i don't have vacume leaks, i tried the good ol Carb cleaner spray down test.

Thanks for the link and picture, I will check that out tomorrow. This is pretty much the last thing i can think of, i have already tried the RPS, and the mixture resister, the screw, and everything else i can find. So hopfully it is this, because if it is not then i don't have a clue where to go next.

Also, where in the FSM is it? I looked through the contents of the emissions section and didn't see anything about it.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I just checked it out on a spare TB I have, and the thermowax couldnt be pressed in by just turning the throttle body like you seem to be experiencing. It is responsible for a fast idle, and it could be that you're just deflecting one of the brackets. Theres also a damper hooked up to the TB that could be sticking, or one of the TB rods itself is bent slightly and binding.

This last one happened on a TB I was using for a swap. It was bent a little and just stuck, keeping the RPMs at idle a bit high (1200 or so warm), and I was just able to see which direction it was deflected and bend it back... then it worked fine. I was also able to force it closed, dropping the idle, but it would spring back to the partially open position the next time I hit the gas. I havent seen any other occurances of this on this site, but its something to check into anyway.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well that doesn't sound wuite like my problem, I can force it closed but as soon as i let got it will go back to the high idle. But will still check it out.If all else fails i guess i can live with the high idle but would rather get it fixed.

I still think that crank sensore could be causing it, i am going to try reseting it per that FSM link you posted and see what that does. I know that just by turning it while the engine was running the RPM's would go up/down by 1500rpms. I just didn't want to leave it way off without knowning it was set.

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

the high idle is really just caused by one thing, and thats excess air getting into the engine whether past the throttle plates, thru a vacuum leak, or through the idle valve. Even if the CAS was off, that would just mean that the spark timing was off... however if the engine ran at all, it would be within +/- 150 rpm or so of where it should be... aka 600 to 900 or so rpm. It wouldnt bring the idle up to 1500.

maybe check the wiring for the idle air valve, and see if the idle drops if you unplug that valve or squeeze off its air supply. Its on the intake plenum sticking off towards the drivers side and has a coolant line running to it and from it, an air line running to it that connects back to the intake pre-throttle, and a blue plug that looks like one of the injector plugs.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

As for the CAS, all i know is that i had a buddy sit in the car while i mesed with it and i could hear the engine speed up/slow down a LOT and he said about 1000 - 1500 RPM's. It was a lot more then 150 though i could hear that.

I will also check the idle valve. Whats driving me bats oh is that i just can't seem to get anything to work. No vacume leaks, the idle screw doesn't do anything, the TPS doesn't do anything the mixture resister doesn't do anything (well they all do something but that is make it run faster or if it runs slower it is REAL rough).

Thanks again for all the help!

NCross

iTrader: (18)

They do. Idle your car and open and close the actuators. Youll hear the engine idle up and down. Very small amount of RPMs but it does affect it if they are stuck shut or open. They just dont actuate until driving conditions are applied. Mainly it has to be the TPS or a VAC leak. He said it wont idle smoothly under 1500RPM but it will idle under 1500RPM correct? This tells me that he has vac leaks through the intake manifold or funnel/TB.

Does the car try to die on a cold star? If so you have an intake leak. Fix the leak and correct your TPS and idle and youll be gravy.

Remove the thermo wax pellet and block it off with a little ATV sealant and the black plastic gasket. Then run a new coolent line from the iron directly to the BAC. The accelerated warm up system is nothing but trouble on a neglected car that has been sitting or improperly modified. remove it all.

NCross

iTrader: (18)

Also turn the idle mixture screw all the way to R (RICH) and back it down a hair. This will solidify your idle a tad more. It will lower it about 50 RPM as well.

HasteTheMoment

^

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Will it idle below 1500? kinda. If i just leave it be, it stays at 1500 no matter what i chance or do. But if i manually close the TB it will drop down to almost normal but it is real rough. The second i let go of the TB it goes back to 1500 though.

I know that vacume leaks are not the problem, i have sprayed the whole intake down with carb cleaner a few times and can never hear any change in idle at all.

Plus if i close the TB myself it will drop RPM so i think it has to do more with that.

As far as removing the thermowax, i am one that feels if they put something on the car it was meant ot be there. What happens if it is not there? It seems like i read problems if it was not there.

Oh, and it starts up fine cold, takes 1 or 2 extra cranks when cold but once it fires it starts right up and works perfect, except for idleing high.

Tried that as well, it did lower it a little but seems to make it run a little rough when i did it so i put it back to what it was.

It must be that thermowax, only thing left i can think of, i am going to test those other things mentioned above today and see what happens, if none of that works i will try the thermowax. Is this normal if that is not working?

toplessFC3Sman

iTrader: (1)

the thermowax was there to mitigate the engine stalling when the throttle snaps shut when the engine is cold. There is also a completely separate damper on the throttle to keep it from closing too quickly. I'd try removing these one at a time (and compare all the vacuum hose routing to the diagram in the FSM) and see if these allow the throttle to close fully.

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

OK, i just took it for it's first test drive!

Finally got the clutch rubber line in and got ythe clutch working so took it around the block and i am SO excited! Even without secindaries it really was nice to drive. with them i can't imaigne how much fun it will be!

Now a few more questions, for now i am just giving up on the idle, i will live with that for now, that is a small thing really.

When i was driving it the Power steering didn't work, needless to say it is quite hard to drive without it. Any ideas? i did fill the fluid, beyond that i don't know where to start.

The AC also didn't work, i know it wored when the PO had it a few years ago, once again, any ideas?

Thanks for all the help getting this running everyone!!

Texas_Ace

iTrader: (18)

Well just went for another test drive and now have some more to add to the above post.

now my idle problem is backwards, i can't get it to idle right. It is REAL rough and just won't idle. It is strange, if i just start it without driving it it would idle 1500 no matter what, but drving it must have done something because now it won't idle. It tryies to stay at aboyt 750, the correct idle but just dies. But if i give it some gas and leave it it will stay at 1500. If i then drive and it drops below 1500 when i let off the clutch it once again wants to go to 750 but tries to die again.

Basically it is running rough, at higher RPM's it seems desently smooth but anything below 2000 is rough.

And yes, i did reset everything as best i could to per-me messing with the idle settings. I am 99% sure it is eletronic and not mechanical. it runs great otherwise, has more power then i thought it would, and i don't even have the secondaires yet, so i can't go above 3800 rpms!

Also, the power steering is acting strange. 2 times i was coming back to my driveway and turning in, the power steering suddenly started working after i got turning the wheel a bit. But then stopped working again. So idea what is going on with that.

NCross

iTrader: (18)

I'd have to mess with it in person to get it running "right". When you lowered the idle to running rough.. did you adjust the TPS any? Is your air pump installed and properly functioning? These things alone dont affect it much but combined they do.