supercharged drift FC?
03-04-06, 06:18 PM
#1
supercharged drift FC?
anyone running a supercharged N/A instead of a turbo ii for drifting. I'm taking into consideration supercharging my car after i do an engine rebuild. i know that superchargers are more responsive than a turbo, but I've also read about newer designs for turbos that cut down on turbo lag. I'm just looking for some opinons. thanks.
03-04-06, 06:25 PM
#2
Peronally I believe that any form of forced induction can be made to work quite well assuming it's done correctly and see no reason why it couldn't be made to work well for you. The key is with doing it properly with the proper type and size of supercharger. This is a serious detail that no one here has yet addressed which will lead to many of the responses you'll get from people. A word of warning, there are many people here that have no clue what properly means that only believe that a turbocharger is always better than a supercharger so expect to get the typical "go turbo" responses as well as the generic "superchargers suck" responses as well. Also expect to be told by many that you should sell your car and buy a T-II. Ignore the fact that they aren't common easy to find vehicles anymore. Properly doing a supercharger is by no means is cheap. If you take the time to do it properly and choose the correct blower for your intended use, it can work just fine. You will have to do it as a custom install though as there are no kits out there that are worth the money for what they can do.
03-04-06, 06:27 PM
#3
Engine, Not Motor
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99% of the supercharger setups for the RX-7 don't work out very well. The stock turbo is very responsive and larger more modern aftermarket units (especially the ball bearing GT series) will build boost almost immediately.
If you are starting with an NA then the easiest thing to do is the standad TII swap.
We just had a detailed discussion on supercharging so you should be able to search for "supercharger" and then read any topics that come up in the last 5 days or so.
If you are starting with an NA then the easiest thing to do is the standad TII swap.
We just had a detailed discussion on supercharging so you should be able to search for "supercharger" and then read any topics that come up in the last 5 days or so.
03-04-06, 06:37 PM
#4
I wouldn't be inclined to drift a supercharged NA. The NA drivetrain isn't that strong, and drifting is definitely hard on a drivetrain.
Now, as for drifting a supercharged vs turbo vehicle, assuming the drivetrain can hold up, I don't have a lot to offer. The response of a supercharger would be nice, but as stated above, getting a good ball bearing turbo that's properly sized can offer almost the same response, without the shaft losses of a supercharger.
-=Russ=-
Now, as for drifting a supercharged vs turbo vehicle, assuming the drivetrain can hold up, I don't have a lot to offer. The response of a supercharger would be nice, but as stated above, getting a good ball bearing turbo that's properly sized can offer almost the same response, without the shaft losses of a supercharger.
-=Russ=-
03-04-06, 08:47 PM
#6
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What RPM would that ball bearing turbo charger boost at? I've driven piston turbo engines, and a stock T2, and from what I could tell the T2 had a lot of turbo lag compared to the other turbo cars i've driven. I'm just trying to get an idea.
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03-04-06, 09:10 PM
#8
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Originally Posted by GodSquadMandrake
What RPM would that ball bearing turbo charger boost at? I've driven piston turbo engines, and a stock T2, and from what I could tell the T2 had a lot of turbo lag compared to the other turbo cars i've driven. I'm just trying to get an idea.
If you're worried about lag, you could always size down the turbine A/R or run more aggressive ignition timing on initial boost spool.
There are ways to tune everything to give you better spool...
-Ted
03-04-06, 09:14 PM
#10
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Yeah, both sides have all of their downs and ups, personally I love the feeling of the instant boost and could see where it would come in handy in drifting (and I've done it a few times in my car) if you dont plan on drag racing the car you could do a smaller turbo and what not, but either way you're cost is going to be well over what you expect...
03-04-06, 09:22 PM
#11
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from what i've come to understand the characteristics of a supercharged engine lead to a more predictable drift car. with a turbo, the torque curve is usually quite steep leading to smaller window for error. with the supercharger you have a more linear curve which offers a smoother transition and more predictable behavior at the edge.
that said, i will always prefer turbo. hahaha
that said, i will always prefer turbo. hahaha
03-04-06, 09:41 PM
#13
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If I am mistaken, from what little I know about drifting (thank the lord) most PRO drifting vehicles appear to be highly modified and turbocharged. There are so many options when it comes to custom building a turbocharger, just build one with less turbo lag.
Like most of you have said in many SC vs TC debates, superchargers just don't cut the mustard period.
Like most of you have said in many SC vs TC debates, superchargers just don't cut the mustard period.
03-05-06, 12:09 AM
#15
I am the stig.
How about a Pro Charger?
http://www.procharger.com/superchargers.shtml
http://www.procharger.com/SPORT_COMP..._compact.shtml
Their example cars are running 8-10 psi with HP gains of 50-100%. I've seen some shows (like Horsepower TV) with their racing setups and they dominate. I, of course, don't have a procharger, but it sounds damn good. (And would like to get one if someone dropped a couple of grand in my lap.)
Universal Sport Compact kit
Complete Intercooled ProCharger systems are currently available for the Nissan 350Z, Infiniti G35, Civic Si, 1.8L Integra, and Ford Focus Zetec and SVT. For all other sport compact applications, a Universal Sport Compact Kit is being offered (fabrication and tuning required). The Universal Sport Compact Kit contains the C-1 ProCharger, 2 core compact sheet metal intercooler, universal tubing kit, right-hand or left-hand universal supercharger bracket, a Bosch surge/bypass system, and an air filter. Optional items include ProPump fuel pump assembly, FMU assembly, and a 3 core compact sheet metal intercooler.
Complete Intercooled ProCharger systems are currently available for the Nissan 350Z, Infiniti G35, Civic Si, 1.8L Integra, and Ford Focus Zetec and SVT. For all other sport compact applications, a Universal Sport Compact Kit is being offered (fabrication and tuning required). The Universal Sport Compact Kit contains the C-1 ProCharger, 2 core compact sheet metal intercooler, universal tubing kit, right-hand or left-hand universal supercharger bracket, a Bosch surge/bypass system, and an air filter. Optional items include ProPump fuel pump assembly, FMU assembly, and a 3 core compact sheet metal intercooler.
http://www.procharger.com/SPORT_COMP..._compact.shtml
Their example cars are running 8-10 psi with HP gains of 50-100%. I've seen some shows (like Horsepower TV) with their racing setups and they dominate. I, of course, don't have a procharger, but it sounds damn good. (And would like to get one if someone dropped a couple of grand in my lap.)
03-05-06, 01:36 AM
#17
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Originally Posted by VashtheStampede
from what i've come to understand the characteristics of a supercharged engine lead to a more predictable drift car. with a turbo, the torque curve is usually quite steep leading to smaller window for error. with the supercharger you have a more linear curve which offers a smoother transition and more predictable behavior at the edge.
-Ted
03-05-06, 01:55 AM
#18
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Originally Posted by RETed
Most SC'd 6-ports don't make more than 200...250hp at the rear wheels.
Most drift cars run at least 300.
Are you willing to run at a handicap?
-Ted
Most drift cars run at least 300.
Are you willing to run at a handicap?
-Ted
03-05-06, 02:55 AM
#19
Originally Posted by Elite_Insane
Ive got a friend with a stock *** Corolla not maybe 110 HP to the wheels, he seems to get it driftin just fine. A lot of NA FC drifters around here too, they seem to manage pretty well. Shouldnt matter if he knows how to do it.
Torque is the key to drifting, not horsepower. I think drifting is mainly 75% Driver and 25% Car. Superchargers just help with low end torque, but any turbo will boost under load at any RPM.
Any drifting is easy in any car when you work the clutch enough. Hence why its hard on the drivetrain. Good quality clutch is key.
In all reality, when your tires are spinning, your not really putting an extreme amount of load on the drivetrain. Since the tires are spinning, theres no resistence, because the tires are spinning. Example: Think Drag Racers and tires. Better you hook up, faster things break. N/A Drivetrain should work out fine if your not making oooooodles of horsepower.
That just something someone told me. Im my mind it makes sense. Any thoughts?
03-05-06, 08:28 AM
#20
Originally Posted by Elite_Insane
Ive got a friend with a stock *** Corolla not maybe 110 HP to the wheels, he seems to get it driftin just fine. A lot of NA FC drifters around here too, they seem to manage pretty well. Shouldnt matter if he knows how to do it.
03-05-06, 08:42 AM
#21
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Originally Posted by RETed
Only those ignorant to turbo tuning will say such bullshit...
-Ted
-Ted
here is why I think i am right:
dyno charts taken from : http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno.asp
Last edited by VashtheStampede; 03-05-06 at 09:04 AM.
03-06-06, 05:39 AM
#23
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Originally Posted by VashtheStampede
ok, so i would have expected a little more civility in a response from such a respected member of the forum. but please do correct me if i am wrong, only provide a more detailed explanation of why i am wrong.
here is why I think i am right:
dyno charts taken from : http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno.asp
here is why I think i am right:
dyno charts taken from : http://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/dyno.asp
Posting two dyno graphs with no description really doesn't help me much.
-Ted
03-06-06, 07:33 AM
#24
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I know this really isn't your question, but I'll back up what's already been said. Drifting has everything to do with your technique and much less to do with the car. If you want to modify your car to drift, spend the money on some coilovers and a clutch-type rear diff. This will have more effect than the supercharger any day.
And as for this torque issue with drifting an FC.... Our cars do make enough torque, just way up in the powerband; you just learn to use it. The NCDA guys have been running N/A for a while, and they do just fine. Seriously, you should only be looking at power mods when you get to the point where you're starting to shift into 4th gear mid-drift.
Most of the posts refering to high horsepower are people who don't really drift, but have just made observations from the pros. Those guys run crazy cars, but have crazy skill. If you got to an actual drift event, things are quite different. You'll see one guy go out in a Mustang GT350 and understeer around the course, then someone in a Corolla barely making 100hp will sing around the track...all technique.
If you want to drift, go to some events and learn to drift your car; you can drift it the way it is now. Once you've figured out drifting, start working on making the car suit your needs.
If you just want a supercharger, get it..but don't expect it to make you a drift king.
And as for this torque issue with drifting an FC.... Our cars do make enough torque, just way up in the powerband; you just learn to use it. The NCDA guys have been running N/A for a while, and they do just fine. Seriously, you should only be looking at power mods when you get to the point where you're starting to shift into 4th gear mid-drift.
Most of the posts refering to high horsepower are people who don't really drift, but have just made observations from the pros. Those guys run crazy cars, but have crazy skill. If you got to an actual drift event, things are quite different. You'll see one guy go out in a Mustang GT350 and understeer around the course, then someone in a Corolla barely making 100hp will sing around the track...all technique.
If you want to drift, go to some events and learn to drift your car; you can drift it the way it is now. Once you've figured out drifting, start working on making the car suit your needs.
If you just want a supercharger, get it..but don't expect it to make you a drift king.
Last edited by ShadowX; 03-06-06 at 07:42 AM.
03-06-06, 07:55 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by Alak
In all reality, when your tires are spinning, your not really putting an extreme amount of load on the drivetrain. Since the tires are spinning, theres no resistence, because the tires are spinning. Example: Think Drag Racers and tires. Better you hook up, faster things break. N/A Drivetrain should work out fine if your not making oooooodles of horsepower.
no but the LSD will die quick. if you go often, your stock LSD will need rebuilt in one year considering XXX,000 number of miles already on the thing.