Strange Problem 87 TII Motor Lock (hitting metal)
01-18-07, 10:53 AM
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Strange Problem 87 TII Motor Lock (hitting metal)
The previous owner replaced the OIL INJECTORS and they are longer then the stock ones. At least 1 inch longer. He claims he never tried to start the car afer installing these and the car is in a bunch of peices so I assume he is telling the truth. Is it possible that the oil injectors he installed are too long and the rotor is hitting the injector on it's way around? If so please post up, if not what else could it be. The engine turns freely until it hits that point. Very odd... Any ideas?
01-18-07, 11:04 AM
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Not possible unless he drilled out the holes or tightened them down so hard they broke through ( dont know if this s possible either,..). The hole in the actual housing is about 1mm in diameter.
It sounds like he installed oil injectors for the LIM in the housings, in which case they won't seal and will leak oil/not feed right.
On the actual problem,.. not sure, it could be a bolt or soemthing dropped into the manifold thats locking it up at TDC, i would remove the exhaust manifold and try turnign the motor both ways untill something comes out.
It sounds like he installed oil injectors for the LIM in the housings, in which case they won't seal and will leak oil/not feed right.
On the actual problem,.. not sure, it could be a bolt or soemthing dropped into the manifold thats locking it up at TDC, i would remove the exhaust manifold and try turnign the motor both ways untill something comes out.
01-18-07, 11:10 AM
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I asked him if he dropped anything down in the manifold... He said and i quote
"NO, No way man, I did that on my Camaro once and would never make that mistake again...."
But there weren't any rags or anything in the holes on the manifold... So who knows.. It feel way to solid to be an apex seal.. but I don't know....
"NO, No way man, I did that on my Camaro once and would never make that mistake again...."
But there weren't any rags or anything in the holes on the manifold... So who knows.. It feel way to solid to be an apex seal.. but I don't know....
01-18-07, 11:21 AM
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You tried turning it backwards to see if it hits the same point? I dont think the oil injectors on the blockwould clear the manifold in they are an inch longer. Id pull out the spark plugs, manifolds, and oil injectors then try turning the motor. Was this motor rebuilt? I guess it could be carbon butI wouldnt imagine that it would get stuck at the same point every time.
01-18-07, 11:27 AM
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I turned it both ways and it hit at the smae point. I was getting even puffs from the seals and then right about the time it should have puffed for the third time it hit metal... I checked the plugs and they were the correct ones.... The motor moves freely until that point.. So carbo is not likely.... It is strange. I am just glad I didn't try to compression test it.
01-18-07, 12:56 PM
#7
well he screwed something up, at this point you may as well pull the short block and remove the plugs and exhaust and try and see if you can notice anything floating around in there. he obviously doesn't know what the hell he is doing if he is trying to force the secondary oil injectors into the rotor housing position.
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01-18-07, 01:05 PM
#9
Originally Posted by Karack
well he screwed something up, at this point you may as well pull the short block and remove the plugs and exhaust and try and see if you can notice anything floating around in there. he obviously doesn't know what the hell he is doing if he is trying to force the secondary oil injectors into the rotor housing position.
01-18-07, 01:20 PM
#10
The material above the rotorhousing injector hole is relatively thin. IF he installed the long injectors here and was intent on getting them to seat against the OMP line, then it is entirely possible that he cracked the metal and pushed some of it into the chamber, and the rotor/seal is now hitting on that.
On the other hand I have never personally seen this happen, so I cannot say for sure that it can even be done.
Anytime you have physical interference with an engine not spinning there's not really much hope of it being a good engine. Even if you do get it moving again, it won't last for more than a few minutes/days.
On the other hand I have never personally seen this happen, so I cannot say for sure that it can even be done.
Anytime you have physical interference with an engine not spinning there's not really much hope of it being a good engine. Even if you do get it moving again, it won't last for more than a few minutes/days.
01-18-07, 02:10 PM
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Hmm. Well I am pretty sure that he must have tightened the oil injectors up so hard that they split the housings. One of them is broken off in the hole... He basically totally screwed the engine. I haven't bought the car yet. But was thinking of doing so... This is rough, I don't have teh money for new housings by any means... I was going to offer $500 and see what he said, but that was under the hope that the engine could be saved.....
01-18-07, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by RRTEC
I turned it both ways and it hit at the smae point. I was getting even puffs from the seals and then right about the time it should have puffed for the third time it hit metal....
if the longer oil injectors went through the housings then hearing 2 out of 3 puffs would be impossible.
Originally Posted by rotaryressurection
The material above the rotorhousing injector hole is relatively thin. IF he installed the long injectors here and was intent on getting them to seat against the OMP line, then it is entirely possible that he cracked the metal and pushed some of it into the chamber, and the rotor/seal is now hitting on that.
is it possible that maybe a apex seal is out of whack? or maybe one of the seals is getting caught on a groove?
01-18-07, 07:18 PM
#16
IF the engine turns more than once before stopping, then it probably can't be a crushed rotorhousing. If we assume that the injector pushed the housing inward, and the rotor tip was not aimed directly at that point, then you'd only be able to turn that one face of the rotor around until the next tip came to that point and hit.
If you can turn the engine several times, it's probably more like a bolt that fell down the intake while dude was dicking around, or a carbon-stuck apex seal. When engines sit, carbon falls to the bottom of the engine, and there's usually one rotor tip/apex seal that gets affected more than the others. You really dont know until you open it up, though.
If you can turn the engine several times, it's probably more like a bolt that fell down the intake while dude was dicking around, or a carbon-stuck apex seal. When engines sit, carbon falls to the bottom of the engine, and there's usually one rotor tip/apex seal that gets affected more than the others. You really dont know until you open it up, though.
01-18-07, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by RotaryResurrection
IF the engine turns more than once before stopping, then it probably can't be a crushed rotorhousing. If we assume that the injector pushed the housing inward, and the rotor tip was not aimed directly at that point, then you'd only be able to turn that one face of the rotor around until the next tip came to that point and hit.
If you can turn the engine several times, it's probably more like a bolt that fell down the intake while dude was dicking around, or a carbon-stuck apex seal. When engines sit, carbon falls to the bottom of the engine, and there's usually one rotor tip/apex seal that gets affected more than the others. You really dont know until you open it up, though.
If you can turn the engine several times, it's probably more like a bolt that fell down the intake while dude was dicking around, or a carbon-stuck apex seal. When engines sit, carbon falls to the bottom of the engine, and there's usually one rotor tip/apex seal that gets affected more than the others. You really dont know until you open it up, though.
01-18-07, 08:32 PM
#18
well you can try soaking it with some mystery oil and see if you can work it past the stuck position.
my previous n/a had been sitting for some time with no plugs in it so i poured MMO into the spark plug holes and down the manifold and broke the engine free as it was originally siezed then a carbon stuck apex seal took over and it would lock up every 360* of rotation so i just kept working it until it unstuck and rotated freely. i reassembled the engine and flooded the neighborhood with smoke and took it for a drive, ran great for 5 months and i sold it as a great running car however it did burn a little oil on startup.
my previous n/a had been sitting for some time with no plugs in it so i poured MMO into the spark plug holes and down the manifold and broke the engine free as it was originally siezed then a carbon stuck apex seal took over and it would lock up every 360* of rotation so i just kept working it until it unstuck and rotated freely. i reassembled the engine and flooded the neighborhood with smoke and took it for a drive, ran great for 5 months and i sold it as a great running car however it did burn a little oil on startup.
01-18-07, 09:18 PM
#20
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My NA would get one about revolution on the crank either way before hitting the "stop". When I took it apart it had a piece of apex seal imbedded in the face of the rotor. Just my $.02.
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