Starter will not engage....
06-12-09, 10:10 PM
#1
Rotartist
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Starter will not engage....
So i turn the key and all the electronics in the car come to life, radio, lights, fan but my 1990 FC3S refuses to even try to engage the starter. I need to know where to start... I have hooked up a good battery, and jumpered the starter and it works... The car doesn't even act like the starter is putting a draw on the battery at all. I kinda want to get the electrics straight prior to putting in the T2 engine..
06-12-09, 10:56 PM
#2
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It could be the electrical brushes inside the starter. They're probably worn and don't have a good enough contact. Take it apart and look at the brushes, I believe there is a wear indicator on them as well.
If all else fails push start it.
If all else fails push start it.
06-12-09, 11:22 PM
#3
If the starter solenoid doesn't see enough current, it won't engage the starter. You'll just get a click. I've battled a similar problem for awhile now, and come to the conclusion that it's just due to old wiring to the solenoid. I've had success whenever I've cleaned the battery terminals and the connection at the main fuse. But it's always short lived. Eventually some corrosion builds up and the current on the signal wire drops just enough to cause intermittent starting problems. I've replaced the starter, ignition switch & battery cables, but none of those things helped. My next step will be to run a completely new wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid & see how that goes.
06-13-09, 01:18 AM
#4
I've had the exact same problem, but very rarely. Everything gets power, it's just like I'm not turning the key at all.
I had started looking at a switch under the clutch pedal (IIRC). I can't remember the details of it ATM, but it's a white switch and I can't remember the name or the specific purpose of it. I've had this problem so rarely that it fell the forgotten land on my to-do list for my car.
I'd dig up the FSM pages....but an emergency trip to Walmart is needed. I got no TP and I feel like I might give birth to twins.
I had started looking at a switch under the clutch pedal (IIRC). I can't remember the details of it ATM, but it's a white switch and I can't remember the name or the specific purpose of it. I've had this problem so rarely that it fell the forgotten land on my to-do list for my car.
I'd dig up the FSM pages....but an emergency trip to Walmart is needed. I got no TP and I feel like I might give birth to twins.
06-13-09, 03:32 AM
#5
OK, personal crisis has been "wiped away"
It's been too long to remember the specifics. But as I remember it I had the problem where everything was powered up but I'd get not even an attempt from the starter to turn the car over. I found that after pumping the clutch a few times without doing anything else, no key being turned in the ignition. Then when I went back to turn the key...waaa laaa. Car started like there was never a problem at all.
I found some google info quicker than I found info on our forums.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/135439...-relay-do.html
From the page:
Then, search the Tech Talk forum for the phrase "clutch interlock". You will see one thread started by me that shows you how to bypass the interlock switch. It's for S13 but the concept is pretty much the same.
The purpose of the interlock switch is so idiots don't start the car in gear and hit stuff, then sue other people. If you don't hit the clutch, the relay grounds out the starter signal and it won't crank.
It's been too long to remember the specifics. But as I remember it I had the problem where everything was powered up but I'd get not even an attempt from the starter to turn the car over. I found that after pumping the clutch a few times without doing anything else, no key being turned in the ignition. Then when I went back to turn the key...waaa laaa. Car started like there was never a problem at all.
I found some google info quicker than I found info on our forums.
http://zilvia.net/f/tech-talk/135439...-relay-do.html
From the page:
Then, search the Tech Talk forum for the phrase "clutch interlock". You will see one thread started by me that shows you how to bypass the interlock switch. It's for S13 but the concept is pretty much the same.
The purpose of the interlock switch is so idiots don't start the car in gear and hit stuff, then sue other people. If you don't hit the clutch, the relay grounds out the starter signal and it won't crank.
06-13-09, 03:12 PM
#6
Rotary Freak
If the starter solenoid doesn't see enough current, it won't engage the starter. You'll just get a click. I've battled a similar problem for awhile now, and come to the conclusion that it's just due to old wiring to the solenoid. I've had success whenever I've cleaned the battery terminals and the connection at the main fuse. But it's always short lived. Eventually some corrosion builds up and the current on the signal wire drops just enough to cause intermittent starting problems. I've replaced the starter, ignition switch & battery cables, but none of those things helped. My next step will be to run a completely new wire from the ignition switch to the starter solenoid & see how that goes.
IF your car is a series four, then if you run a new wire b/t the igniton switch and the starter solenoid, remember you need to also splice the original trigger wire that was on the starter to the new wire.
The reason you want to do that, is that the original starter wire also splits off and goes to the Circuit Opening Relay and the ECU. Not only does it trigger the starter solenoid, but also gives the ECU a head's up that the engine is being started (ECU uses the internal Start fuel Map instead of the AFM) plus it powers one of the two coils in the Circuit Opening Relay so it can/will power the fuel pump as long as the key is held to Start, that is.
Series five starter circuit is a bit different. Not that much.
So you own a Olds 88, eh?
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06-13-09, 06:42 PM
#8
Rotary Freak
What's odd?
And RRTEC..........Does the starter make any noise when you go to Start? Like the infamous click of the starter solenoid but no rotation of the starter?
I think your saying NOTHING happens when you go to Start. If so then it's the open circuit b/t the ignition switch and the starter solenoid as mentioned above in other posts.
Or possibly an open circuit caused by the Theft Protection circuit. As in the Starter cut relay being pulled in by the Theft unit causing the open circuit to the starter (outside possibility).
And RRTEC..........Does the starter make any noise when you go to Start? Like the infamous click of the starter solenoid but no rotation of the starter?
I think your saying NOTHING happens when you go to Start. If so then it's the open circuit b/t the ignition switch and the starter solenoid as mentioned above in other posts.
Or possibly an open circuit caused by the Theft Protection circuit. As in the Starter cut relay being pulled in by the Theft unit causing the open circuit to the starter (outside possibility).
06-13-09, 07:52 PM
#10
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IF your car is a series four, then if you run a new wire b/t the igniton switch and the starter solenoid, remember you need to also splice the original trigger wire that was on the starter to the new wire.
The reason you want to do that, is that the original starter wire also splits off and goes to the Circuit Opening Relay and the ECU. Not only does it trigger the starter solenoid, but also gives the ECU a head's up that the engine is being started (ECU uses the internal Start fuel Map instead of the AFM) plus it powers one of the two coils in the Circuit Opening Relay so it can/will power the fuel pump as long as the key is held to Start, that is.
Series five starter circuit is a bit different. Not that much.
So you own a Olds 88, eh?
IF your car is a series four, then if you run a new wire b/t the igniton switch and the starter solenoid, remember you need to also splice the original trigger wire that was on the starter to the new wire.
The reason you want to do that, is that the original starter wire also splits off and goes to the Circuit Opening Relay and the ECU. Not only does it trigger the starter solenoid, but also gives the ECU a head's up that the engine is being started (ECU uses the internal Start fuel Map instead of the AFM) plus it powers one of the two coils in the Circuit Opening Relay so it can/will power the fuel pump as long as the key is held to Start, that is.
Series five starter circuit is a bit different. Not that much.
So you own a Olds 88, eh?
Not sure what you mean about an "Olds 88". 1988 Oldsmobile?
lol
06-13-09, 08:56 PM
#11
Check your starter cut relay, and your clutch safety switch. Starter cut is the big relay by the trailing coil pack. Safety switch is the button on the clutch pedal on all 87 + 7s. Jiggle the pedal up and down while turning the key and see if that helps. Try jumpering them to full on. I have spares if you need them.
Is the fuel pump whining and are you getting spark? If so, the starter cut and clutch switch are both active and you have a bigger problem such as a faulty ground cable or maybe your cables are reversed...
Is the fuel pump whining and are you getting spark? If so, the starter cut and clutch switch are both active and you have a bigger problem such as a faulty ground cable or maybe your cables are reversed...
06-13-09, 08:57 PM
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See if the solenoid wire at the starter is loose.It needs 12 volts when the key is turned,in order to Roll the starter.
How did you jumper the starter?.Cables directly to the Starter?then the Starter is GOOD.you just have to find out why you are not getting Juice to the Starter when you turn the key.
That Solenoid wire sometimes comes loose.That is why I am Mentioning it.let us know what you find.
How did you jumper the starter?.Cables directly to the Starter?then the Starter is GOOD.you just have to find out why you are not getting Juice to the Starter when you turn the key.
That Solenoid wire sometimes comes loose.That is why I am Mentioning it.let us know what you find.
06-13-09, 10:00 PM
#13
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Buy a digital multimeter. Most important tool in my toolbox concerning these cars!
Check voltage at the solenoid while someone else turns the key, No voltage? Move to the clutch interlock switch thats been discussed and the ignition assembly itself to see if you have the correct voltage.
Tracing the circuit will tell you where the problem is, then you can fix it.
Pat
Check voltage at the solenoid while someone else turns the key, No voltage? Move to the clutch interlock switch thats been discussed and the ignition assembly itself to see if you have the correct voltage.
Tracing the circuit will tell you where the problem is, then you can fix it.
Pat
06-14-09, 08:14 AM
#14
Rotary Freak
This:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_88
RRTEC.........Do what they suggested above. Might try going to the clutch pedal first. Find the switch on the VERY top of the clutch pedal. The one on the front side of the pedal. It has two wires (BLACK/GREEN and BLACK/RED) going to the switch. Pull the plug off and jumper the two wires in the half of the plug that is a part of the harness, not the switch side. Then try turning the key to Start. You'd be bypassing the interlock switch in case it was bad.
06-14-09, 12:02 PM
#15
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First make sure all your cables are connected securly. if they are take the starter out. its easy 2 bolts and the cables. Then do a Bench test, or take it to your local auto parts store they should be able to test it for you. I had the same problem a while back and it ended up being a loos cable on the starter. Also check chassis/engine grounds.
06-14-09, 04:20 PM
#17
Rotary Freak
If you jumper the yellow two socket fuel pump check connector and turn the key ON will the pump run continuously?
ENGINE fuse good? Not starter related but fuel pump related.
Answer this: do the turn signals work? There's a reason to ask. Many things are on the Battery bus. The battery bus does not require the ignition to have any power whatsoever. The TURN signals are on what is called IG1 bus which is fed power only if the ignition switch has power going to it AND the key is to ON or better. So give us a clue by answering the question.
See the attached jpg. See the fuses underlined with red? Do any of those items work. If NOT, then I'd say that the ignition switch is getting no power and that's why the starter does not turn when the key is put to START. IF that is the case, then look near the engine bay fuse box and just below it for a single wire connector that is pulled apart. That one feeds the ignition switch. IF any of the items in red work, then forget that idea altogether.
EDIT: A real quick way to see if the ignition switch gets power, is to put the key ON and see if the wiper work at all. IF they do, then the ignition switch is getting power and you can forget the above.
06-14-09, 05:06 PM
#18
im having the same kind of problems i interior swapped my car from blue to black and the car started with out the dash in and the next day it stopped working i have tried pulling the starter checking the connections but when i try to turn the key it makes one single click and thats it......
can you run a straight circuit from the batt to the starter with a momentary push button cuz i cant figure this out
can you run a straight circuit from the batt to the starter with a momentary push button cuz i cant figure this out
06-14-09, 07:53 PM
#19
Rotary Freak
im having the same kind of problems i interior swapped my car from blue to black and the car started with out the dash in and the next day it stopped working i have tried pulling the starter checking the connections but when i try to turn the key it makes one single click and thats it......
can you run a straight circuit from the batt to the starter with a momentary push button cuz i cant figure this out
can you run a straight circuit from the batt to the starter with a momentary push button cuz i cant figure this out
Find the starter cut relay in the engine bay. It should be on the left fender area near the main relay. Pull that relay off and set it aside. Find the large Black/Green wire in the plug that was connected to the relay. Now get a long piece of elec wire and strip both ends. PUt one end in the socket with the black/green wire. Then with the car out of gear, touch the other end of the wire to the battery positive post. Starter should spin over. Did it spin over or just click?
If the car didn't have factory theft protection the relay MIGHT not exist but have a jumper connector plugged into the harness instead of the relay.
The starter itself could be bad. Get under the car with the car out of gear. With a screwdrive bridge the gap b/t the small blade on the starter solenoid and the large cable on the solenoid. Starter should spin if the starter itself is any good.
Key does not have to be in the car to do the two things above.
06-17-09, 04:42 PM
#21
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I had the same problem last night. This morning I made a jumper wire from the positive on the battery to the solenoid. The starter turned but did not engage with the flywheel to spin the engine.
Does this mean that the solenoid is bad?
Does this mean that the solenoid is bad?
06-19-09, 03:32 AM
#22
Exact same thing I've had happen. Everything gets power, but the starter acts like the key isn't being turned at all. It's been VERY sporadic so I haven't looked into it enough to really speak with any authority. But doesn't the clutch interlock switch I referenced relate to both the starter and fuel pump?
