BUSTN

Guys, I am currently in the last steps of my motor build. I am looking fo radvice on which side seals to use for my 13b turbo motor. I am planning on running 35 lbs of boost and would like to make sure every piece in the motor is up to par. Thanks!!

Brodie121

iTrader: (8)

what are the other parts your building it up with?

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

http://www.eastcoastparts.com/

ALS sideseals clearanced properly...

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

RA Super Seals... Have NEVER been broken. Only warped under EXTREME conditions.

Rataryaviation.com

BUSTN

I have half a set of these in my rotors now, the other half don't fit.

I guess I will try the Rotary aviation set, hopefully no issues will arise?
Thanks guys!

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

What do you mean they don't fit?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

You have to make them fit. If you've never done it before, it takes a really long time.

Turbo II Rotor

iTrader: (2)

Lol, wow. I see 0 psi of boost in your future.

BUSTN

Should I have to grind down the center of the seal for them to fit into the rotor? Only 4 seals have this problem. They where to cut to fit the rotor but these 4 wont go down into the notch in the center (the material is thicker)? With the factory seals, this was not an issue. Am I wrong?

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

grab some sandpaper if im correct and you slowly shave some off and every little bit just check if they fit you want it to be snug not to the point where your shoving it in there
TwEaK

BUSTN

Side Seal and Spring
1. With side seal and spring installed, press seal with finger and ensure it moves freely in groove. Check side seal protrusion. If not within specifications, replace side seal and/or spring. Side seal protrusion should be .020" (.5 mm).
2. Check clearance between side seal and groove with feeler gauge. If clearance exceeds specifications, replace side seal. Check clearance between side seals and corner seals. See Fig. 19 . If clearance exceeds specification, replace side seals.



The side seal in the center protrudes way too much as it wont seat. That is my issue. Should I have to grind them? The issue I see is inconziztancy by hand filing them to seat. Like I said, only 4 will not fit as the others all seat properly and protrude the desired amount. Please advise as I am new to all of this. thank you!

TwEaK

iTrader: (6)

maybe call rotary aviation and tell them you think you got a bad batch?
TwEaK

BUSTN

These seals are the ALS Side Seals.

So, I am correct in the fact of not grinding down the center of the side seal to make them seat?

Thank you for any help with this matter!

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

RA seals fit perfect everytime...

why bother with the head ache of ALS seals?

Liborek

This is about side seals... I´m not aware about side seals from RA....

BUSTN, did you measured thickness of side seals?? Did you try fit seals that didn´t fit to another groove??

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

oh, lol... i gues i read it to fast. my bad. ignore my posts.

and for side seals. I heard good things about Hurley ones. But i have never used them myself...

arghx

iTrader: (3)

that's because they need to be filed down. they are too long and are bowing outward when you install them. Be careful, you can break them during removal.

No seal fits "perfect" every time, not even OEM! The grooves in the rotor vary! Being able to slide them in and out doesn't mean that much, they could have a very loose clearance which will result in additional blowby and oil consumption. The factory tolerance is about 2 to 6 thousandths... which is kind of like saying you can torque your lug nuts from 40 to 120 lb/ft

The side seals must be hand clearanced if you want to minimize blowby for a high horsepower setup. This is time consuming. When I built my engine (which is a 400+ whp setup) I clearanced every brand new OEM side seal to around .002" (2 thousandths), the tightest clearance allowed by the FSM. And I only allowed a tolerance of about +/- .00025" , a quarter of a thousandth. I ended up scrapping 6 side seals because I had either broken them or under filed them.

this video shows one way to clearance the seals: http://www.rebuildingrotaryengines.c...ing_Side_Seals

sen2two

iTrader: (10)

^ i was refering to apex seals, not side seals. i was confused on the topic.

and every side seal from any maker has to be clearenced. except for rx8 renesis side seals. they come clearenced and beveled correctly. you have to buy them depending on wich rotor casting you have...

BUSTN

Ok, I understand that the end needs to be trimmed for a specific tolerance. Now, I didn't understand that the center of them has to be filed to fit as well. The problem I see is that the center is not seating. How do I get the EXACT tolerance sanding down the center to match the rest of the side seal. I have tried numerous times to contact ALS but to no avail in reference to this. So then the problem I have is reversed then? I have 4 good side seals and 8 crappy side seals that fit with no issue? I saw the video but it did not say or show a tolerance or what needed to be done to have a side seal fit in the center only the ends.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

they don't. if the seal is too long, it will "appear" to fit, but will in fact be bending and won't seat properly. Am I understanding the problem? Can you post a pic?

what you need to do is install two corner seals adjacent to the side seal. lay one end of the side seal in there, and then slowly lower the other end. if it touches the corner seal as you try to install it, you need to file it down more. You file it on the sandpaper some, test again, file, test again. Then you will have to bust out the feeler gauge and continue the process. First the seal won't even lie in there without bending some, which is what I think you are experiencing right now. Then it will barely fit in but movement will be hindered and clearance will be very very tight, like half a thousandth of an inch. Then you keep filing until you are in the 2 - 3 thousandth range according to the feeler gauge.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Are you sure its not an issue with the rotors?

BUSTN

I actually was able to cut one but it does not fit. I will post pics in the morning. I know pics would have helped this thread alot more sorry but thanks alot guys for the help!!

BUSTN

No, the rotors arer in mint condition. The other seals fit perfectly it's just the 4 seals that wont go into the rotors in any slot front or back.