fcrx88

why not just buy an na? there dirt cheap now adays. then you have fast t2 and daily driver

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

A fast T2 that will have a burnt up stock turbo in several weeks time. And I do not have the funds currently to just buy another car. Not to mention get it operating in the condition I would like, plus the cost of another standalone. Your solution while maybe viable for yourself will not work for me.

--Fritz

BlaCkPlaGUE

Actually power to you fritz, this is kinda neat. I like the way your thinking about this! If anything this will show us what the rotary can really do with the lower end parts, you have the equipment to push it to the edge.

Good luck, and please keep us informed.

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

Thanks BlackPlague, I mean at the very least when all is said and done, at least we can all sit back and say...

"This is what a properly tuned and ported 4 port NA can make."

--Fritz

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

well, you drive your slow car and I'll blow by you in my turbo lol, anyways good luck with your turbo to n/a project and I do think it's pretty neat seeing what an n/a can do but hasn't this been done already??? I mean maybe not with a 4port but deffinatley with a 6port. Interesting to say the least!

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Preach on my man, however i will suggest a RB "holley" intake, and a 4 BBL TB

I have seen your future setup plenty of times, not as fast as an equally modded T2, but fun non the less

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

Well change is always good and at least I can say I've done it and tried it. The main thing though is reinventing the interest in NA for power.

Too many times I've seen this kind of post:

What is the best way to make my NA RX-7 faster I want more power, I already have a cone filter and exhaust. I want 30 or 40 more hp.

And then 3,000,000 of these responses:

Sell your car!! Get a TII!

Turbo it!

Get a J-spec!!

Everyone is quick to jump on the turbo bandwagon and abandon the possibilites of their car. I just hope to help aid in a resurgence in interest to highly modifying na's to do what they were built to do Kick ***!

--Fritz

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

now your talking about posts with boys that want thier cars to be faster on a budget. The mods you are talking about are extensive and expensive. a haltek and a rebuild ported is already more expensive then buying the stuff needed for a turbo II swap if you use a jspec engine. I don't know, I think that to make less horse power you are going to be spending a crap load more. If turbo's where bad then cars like the subaru and half of the german engineered cars wouldn't be turboed.

vincentwashere

"If turbo's where bad then cars like the subaru and half of the german engineered cars wouldn't be turboed." they are also not rotary, rotarys seem to need to be rebuilt more than pistons to my knowledge specially rotary with turbo if u gonna be driving hard.

fritz i believe in u! lol i just got a crappy *** 86 na. your giving me hope.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

That fine, run N/A until you can afford to get another turbo, and get back to it. I'm not saying 4port N/A's can't make power (actually I'm hoping they do quite well; my current project in fact). But the setup you have isn't ideal.

hondahater

iTrader: (2)

any car with a turbo needs to be rebuilt more often then their n/a counter part simply because of wear. Now the thing with a turbo is that it has a hole lot more potential as apposed to an n/a's horsepower cap. Yes you have a 6port n/a so lets say if he does do all this stuff with a 4port n/a you are still going to require an engine swap. All I'm saying is the turbo is the better bang for the buck. Well worth the extra wear as far as I'm conserned.

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

Hondahater you are right, I am not arguing price, turbo'ing an na is a much easier power solution, but not everyone likes being turbo. Add that to the fact that there seems to be a general concensus you can't break free of that 170hp wall if you are NA. Obviously that isn't true as people have proved it. But it still isn't widely accepted that NA's can make decent power without having a little metal snail attached.

--Fritz

PS. I just realized in one of my previous posts I spelled Accepted, excepted damn I am so ashamed

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

I realize it isn't ideal considering the CR's of the turbo rotors but I am just going to try and make-do.

--Fritz

PS. Liquid Anarchy how far along is your 4port NA it is awesome that someone else is pursuing this. What kind of rotors are you using? Renesis?

2Lucky2tha7

iTrader: (3)

I just can't understand WHY you are willing to run your TII 9.0:1 rotors when now is your perfect opportunity to run 9.7:1 rotors!! I would seriously consider trading your pair of rotors for someone elses s5 N/A rotors!! The rotors will swap without a problem whatsoever as there is no need to change the counterweights!! At most, all you will have to worry about is shipping costs, or maybe you'll get lucky and you'll only have to drive locally to swap them.
I really think that what you're doing is a good idea, but seriously man, now is the perfect opportunity to swap the rotors, as you will gain absolutely NOTHING from putting the TII rotors in there (unless you plan on throwing a turbo back on it later on).
Well, either way, best of luck!!

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

Well I have 9.7 rotors available at a friend's house..... but nahhhhh I want to run the 9.0's it will be interesting to say the least.

--Fritz

IaMtHeRuThLeSs1

I agree...unless he's just bent on using TII rotors, I dont see why he wouldnt put n/a rotors in.

NZConvertible

Ah, the silly obsession with peak hp. If you think a 200rwhp NA is going to be any where near as fast as a 200rwhp Turbo you're kidding yourself, and that's if you even get near that, which I doubt. You will very quickly learn that what makes the Turbo fast is the torque, not just the power. That flat torque curve you're hanging out for is only flat because it's missing all the torque even a stock Turbo generates in the mid-range where you spend most of your driving time.

F1blueRx7

iTrader: (5)

I think the obvious answer here is that Rx7's are cheap enough that you can own and modify both turbo and naturally aspirated rx7's. I keep the N/a as the daily for the better gas mileage. Then go raise hell in the turbo when I'm bored or ... in a hell raising mood.

Icemark

Yep, that is the draw back to non turbos... more Torque when starting from a stop, but that extra bit stays flat as RPMs climb. Unlike a Turbo which the torque climbs as the RPMs do.

Take my non turbo vert, typically 165hp at the rear wheels peak on the dyno, but with a peak 142 ftlbs. Hardly a stop light racer.

But the biggest gains are in the weight loss... something that it did not appear that Fritz was doing. By using the Turbo driveline (tranny/rear end/drive shafts/etc) he has added about 150lbs... over the non turbo. The extra weight is something that a non turbo can not really afford.

jpd3253

And for a brief moment, I actually thought this thread would not become a series of "turbo is better" posts. Why do all threads dealing with N/As ended up with a "turbo solution"?

JP

Icemark

Because this board has a bunch a kids that think racing and going faster than anyone else is the ultimate.

Liquid Anarchy

iTrader: (2)

S4 NA front cover, S4 TII Front Iron, S5 NA Rotor Housing (TII Sleeves), S5 Intermediate Iron, S5 NA Rotor Housing (TII Sleeve), S4 TII Iron. S5 Rotating mass w/ (soon) ACT 13# flywheel. 460cc Prim. 550cc Sec, TII Fuel pump, TII Oil pump, FD OPR, Atkins 2mm Seals, Megasquirt on fuel, 12A Dizzy w/ DLIDFIS on spark.

Getting a big SP on the sec's, and mild on primary.

What I consider on the right track for "ideal"

KNONFS

iTrader: (14)

Easy, cause he can strap the ol'turbo if he so desires

Fritz_X

iTrader: (1)

Jason, while I appreciate that if I left the stocker on my car it would be a torquey bitch I am going to use a dyno from a similar car as an example....



This is a relatively stock S4 on the stock turbo. Now while it might look like it is 304 tq and that is awesome. Notice how driving it would be like a giant wave.

Low tq, crazy tq, low tq.

Not too mention once again that this kind of power was never meant to be made with the stock turbo and it burns itself up driving like this. I want to be able to drive the car to it's limits but not past them, and with the stock turbo in place I am looking at a giant limit. NA I am much more free to do what I want, and rev the car to the allowable redline. All while not worrying about the turbo cooking itself, and heat soaking the IC past what it was built for.

Is there another solution?
Sure drive the car like a little bitch and never get on the throttle, and when I do shift at 6k rpm.

Do I want to do that?
No.

Do I care frankly if my car is turbo or not?
Not really.

Am I planning to go out and win any races with this setup, and establish my name on the street as the baddest rx7 ever with the mad fast shiftin y0?
No, I only plan on racing my baby brother, and last I checked he had a Radio Flyer and that was it, so the competition isn't fierce.

Do I want to spend the 2k or so it is going to take me to go with a fully upgraded turbo system, (T04E, Manifold, DP, FMIC, Piping)??
Don't really have the money or the interest at the moment.

I am going to be perfectly happy retrograding, or downgrading my TII as some of you may say. I'm quite interested to see the results. If I end up disliking it so much that it is killing me, I can toss the stocker back on,(doubtful) Or just give the damn moneypit to charity and get a geo metro

As to what hondahater, and several others said, about giving too much hope to the NA guys, when I already have extensive and expensive mods that outweigh the cost complaints of going turbo. How about the fact that all of the mods that I currently have, for the most part, help achieve a solid platform for any rx-7 be it NA or Turbo and the mods should be done really in either case? They aren't wasting their money if they get a 800$ haltech (that's what e6k's go for used now I think) over a 900$ beater jspec motor, the haltech will come in handy later on if they do go turbo, in which case they do it all the way and right. That way they won't have a jspec t2/na hybrid with wiring issues and 85 compression on all the rotor faces, like it seems so many members here do.


--Fritz

ddub

What the ****? Relatively stock s4 with stock turbo and it's hitting 304 rwtq? And how the hell did it get more torque than hp (304 tq 260 hp)? I've never seen an rx-7 do that. The other runs seem more realistic, that last one just seems effed up.