1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Ok I have so far found 1600cc low impedance injectors for my TII for $90 a peice. I can't seem to find them much cheaper. Does anyone know of a better deal than this? Its a lot of money when you buy a full set of 4

What is the highest Horsepower that you have seen using a walbro 255lph pump? I was thinking about the Nippondenso pump but its double the price of the walbro.

I beleive that the normally used fuel regulator is the SX rising rate regulator. If so why is it the best? Just because its easily available? Is there a better option?

How many of you have converted to AN fuel lines? I was told that they will hold upto ~700hp and the stock sized lines ~500hp My goal is 400 or just shy of it to the ground. Do you all think I should go for full AN from the rails to the pump?

How much better is the K2RD fuel rail compared to an stock one?

I think thats all I am wondering about right now. I am still shopping around for fuel components and I thought you guys would know something about it.

Santiago

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Did you say 4 1600's? No way you'll ever use that much fuel for 400hp. I'd think 2 720s and 2 1600s would be more than enough.

Remember, the larger your primary injector volume, the harder it gets to control idle and low end.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Yep 4 1600's

I may go with 720's in the primarys but I want to have WAY MORE THAN ENOUGH I know I don't need that much fuel. I just want to know I have it. Security.

But yeah I know that it is harder to controll them. I plan to use either an E6X or and LTX8 for engine management which is going to be the FIRST thing that gets ordered in March when the budget clears

anyone got oppinions other than having excessive amounts of fuel?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

What Im saying is that too much fuel will make the car run poorly or not at all. You can't just go dumping fuel into an engine when it doesnt require it (idle, low end) and still have it run half assed decent.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Yes I understand what your trying to convey to me. That with large capacity injectors in the primary spots it will run like crap mostlikely. Truth of the matter is that if it does and I can't find a way to make it work ok then I will swap in some 720's or the stock 550's in. If it doesn't make a huge problem then I have a lot more fuel incase I need it or should happen to really want to go into boost later on. I know that 4 1600's is WAY more than I need for 400 ponies but who knows maybe I go crazy like Soul did with his FC. I just want to try it out. Just because it will idle like **** doesn't mean I shouldn't try. It won't blow my engine now will it. If it works ok then cool if not the I will just have a spare set of secondaries.

Now could we get into some of the other stuff? maybe the regulator?

neevosh

1600cc fuel injectors will be way more than you need. RotaryResurection is right on. It'll be hard to tune the idle and low RPM ranges. Also, I don't think a single Walbro will flow enough to meet the damand of those injectors.

NZConvertible

What the hell are you looking at injectors for? Stock turbo, stock intercooler, nothing but an exhaust? What a crazy waste of money.

Injectors should be sized for the power you're making now, not the power you might make if you ever win the lottery.

Felix Wankel

no but run it like that for a while then take a whiff of the oil dipstick.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Do you think I am that stupid to want to have 1600's for a stock setup?

This is the begining of my list. The main items you might want to look at are the TO4B 60-1 turbo and the Greddy Three row intercooler. On top of that The engine will be rebuilt after a year or so with a Half bridge port. The exhaust I want to put on is either the Racing Beat full system or a 4" system mated to some larger mufflers.

Now could we please get off of the injector thing?



EDIT A LOT OF STUFF IS STILL NOT ADDED TO THE LIST SO DO NOT BITCH ABOUT ALL THE LITTLE THINGS THAT ARE NOT IN THERE!!!!!
------------------------------------------------------
Boost guage
Oil Temp Guage
Oil PSI guage
Water temp guage
EGT guage
Wide band O2 Sensor
Lap Top
TO4B
Greddy Intercooler
HKS wastegate
HKS manifold
ApexI BOV
Forza Seats
K2RD Radiator
CP Racing Cage
Fuel Regulator
Fuel Block
Unions Three
#2 Unions Three
Y-union block
Walbro
Fuel Rail
2 Bosch 1600's
Seat Brackets X 2
Remote oil Filter mount
oil filter bypass block
oil baffle plate
XACT prolite flywheel

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

If you goal is 400rwhp then you don't need custom rails or big -an lines. You don't want a rr fpr. Sx and Aermotive both make nice fpr. 550/1600cc is WAY more fuel than you will ever use; let along 1600/1600.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I am really trying to be paitient here guys. BUt you all just don't get off of it.


I KNOW I DON"T NEED THAT BIG OF INJECTORS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do I care? no

I don't need a TII either but I bought one.
Why? because.


JUST BECAUSE!

Thats why people climb mountains.


Just BECAUSE


Why do I want a K2RD fuel rail? BECAUSE

Why do I want to do the parrallel fuel rail mod? BECAUSE

I want to make sure my car can do what I want it to do. Be it my current goal or my future goal.

Turblown

iTrader: (12)

Chill out buddy; you posted while I was typing. Now I'm lost. Whats your question?

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I'm just trying to get you all to understand that I FULLY KNOW that the damned injectors are two times OVERKILL!

I just want for you guys that have some of these mods to let me know what you think of them and where you all got the best deals. or atleast what you all have seen and heard of them.


Santiago*still trying to stay calm*

Sorry about the angry post. :-/

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Alright dude, that's enough of the ******** routine. This isn't a personal attack, but hopefully a reality check. I think we're on good terms, and hopefully you can take some criticism without thinking I'm personally attacking you. However, after reading the above, I'm sure you'll take it how you want to, not how it was intended.

IF you want our opinion, take it when we give it. Otherwise you'll be on your own to **** **** up. Nobody here cares to help, but you're saying stupid ****. If you were us, and you knew what was what, you would realize just how dumb you sound right now. IF you think you know so much about setups and tuning, why the hell are you here asking for our help?

You can do damn well whatever you want, and I won't lose any sleep over it. Trust me when I say you are looking at this entirely the wrong way. 720's and 1000's would be enough for what you're after...720s and 1600's are waaay more than enough.

You're thinking that you'll get massive injectors and have enough fuel for ANY situation. Well, it doesnt work that way. IF you put 1600's in the primaries, no matter what ecu you get to run the engine, you won't be able to get the pulsewidth small enough to accurately control idle and low end. You'd have a car that you've put thousands of dollars into that won't even run to get you to the corner store. You'll gas contaminate your oil supply and cause excess bearing wear right out of the box. You'll foul plugs and get 5mpg, backfire and stutter. These are all problems with running too rich.

You're sitting there acting like you know so much about tuning and setups. Truth is, the most "tuned" car you've had to my knowledge is an s4 NA with a custom cold air intake and a few other small mods. You've probably never even broken the 200FWHP (fw=flywheel) mark, much less 400, 600, or what ever you're pipe dream involves. You want to build a beast of a car, but you can't even figure out what vacuum hoses and solenoids on the engine to remove.

People that talk a lot of **** about what all they're gonna get, gonna do, etc. bother me. Talk is cheap, proof is in doing. As of yet, you haven't done jack.

IF it were me, I'd get my **** running first, take care of all it's current problems, *then* worry about what I'd do to it next. Projects often start off with big dreams and end up being sold in pieces for those who think they know more/can afford more than they actually can.

BUt hey, what does it matter to me? You do what you want and I'll do what I want, and we'll see who's **** runs better at the end of the day.

Sesshoumaru

iTrader: (1)

werd-

but harsh

fstrnyou

Umm, I'm new to the thread. What hp can the Walbro support? And what aftermarket fuel pressure regulator do you guys recommend? I was thinking of running the parallel fuel rail setup just because i like the look of SS lines. Is the K2RD fuel rail required to run 1600's? Are there any other fuel rails to use besides K2RD? I'm in the modding process and have similar questions as 1987RX7guy.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I sat here for 20 minutes reading this over and over. If I could explain things I would but I won't. Simplest thing I can do is to admit that I do not know what is what or how to tune. When I sit down here infront of my PC I really.........

I am not going to talk about this on a forum about cars. But lets just say I am trying to fix my problems but haven't made much progress yet.



Getting to what was the initial purpose of this thread and to the injectors:

Kevin: You and the others are more knowledgeable than I am so I will go with what you guys suggest, smaller injectors.

About my project: I have to have a set plan. If my goals for the car are set to high then I will find out. But I don't like aiming low because without aiming high you never progress to new and better things.

If you all still want to give your opinnions on the other items I asked about I will appreciate the input good or bad.

Sorry about being an idiot guys. I try my best but it never fails that I scew up here.


****.

fstrnyou

Hey, those injectors are WAY too big for what you need!!!!

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

My suggestions for 350-400hp, noting first that I am by no means an experienced high power tuner, are:

-a better pump than the walbro 255...from what I understand it's safe limit is 350hp.
-2x720cc for primaries, 2x1000, 1300, or 1600 for secondaries
-haltech or microtech for control (I would lean toward the haltech in this case, more people have been running it for longer on high power setups here in the states, so there will be more support available)
-probably something like a 60-1 or t66 would get the job done while still being very streetable.
-Obviously you'll need custom fuel rail for your secondaries, with an aftermarket regulator.
-The biggest IC core you can fit up front. The greddy setup I just installed is very nice, and should support almost any level of hp. IT is what 1fastt2 is running as well.
-****...Brian (1fastt2) is running 400whp, why don't you just copy his setup to the letter? Man others have already done this, so learn from their mistakes and follow their advice to the letter.

I think where you're making your mistake is that you're planning (I believe) to do all this at once. Where do you plan to come up with the 10 grand to do all of it? At one time? Not likely, is it. What I do, and most others, is build slowly. You may get to a point and say to hell with it, this is as far as I want to go. Basically, this isn't TF&F, where they come home with a truckload of shiny parts, bolt them all into a car, and go raising hell off into the sunset. Generally, the more custom work you do at one time, the more difficult it is to get the car going again. I like to do one major mod at a time, even if it may be more work that way.

For instance: I'll build an engine and put stock peripherals on it. Drive it, break it in. Then, I'll change the exhaust. Then, custom intake. Then, FMIC setup. Then, injectors. Then, turbo...you get the idea.

BTW, I didnt mean to be overly hard on you earlier, but I felt you could use a strong nudge back into reality

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

Cool now we're hummin along.

That suggestion about following Brian's setup is a good one. I will probably send him a PM and see what he has to offer as advice for me.


I have switched back and forth(in my wittle head) about which one to use for engine management. The E6X from haltech would be a little cheaper because I am missing the stock TPS on my car and a GM TPS is like 60 bucks instead of paying 100 or so for a used Mazda oem one. But the microtech is more of a value as far as stuff I get with a comparable amount of money. I was planning on a full LTX setup with the Bosch coils(I don't want to trust the OE ones) a hand controller(to allow me time to buy a nice laptop) and the laptop adapter itself(planning on getting an older laptop as they get cheap fast).


Kevin: What Greddy kit is it you are using?

I too wanted to use a Three row Greddy kit or a comparable sized spearco unit with custom pipes made.

Walbro 255lph: this is why I wanted the NipponDenso unit or the Bosch unit. But the reason I though about using it was that on the K2RD site they talk about using it on a 20B which would probalby make more ponies than my S5's two rotor but i guess they are just blowing smoke to sell pumps....

Fuel lines/reg: I planned on using the K2RD rail in conjunction with REteds parralel fuel rail mod to help keep the pressure in the rails when the secondaries come on.


Turbo: yeah I planned on using a TO4B with a 60-1 trim and probably the HKS manifold at first and posibbly upgrade to a divided manifold later on.


About funding this project: In about 2 months I will have ~$2000 dollars to dump into the car. I plan to do the car in stages not all at once. First the engine management is going in. Then I will have to descide what comes next. The current plan for it is to build it in roughly two years. My conservative estimates right now on cost is ~$8000 dollars in upgrades plus any shipping charges applied. Cosmetically the car needs ~$2500 put into it in the form of body work and paint. And I would estimate another $1500-2500 in pure restonrations and stock parts. There is no plan for aftermarket cosmetic parts for the car eg. body kits or anything along those lines so all the money is for good stuff and not junk like RE amemiya parts or anything like that. My ultimate goal for the TII is to make it look and sound stock at first glance. But obviously have a serious kick in the nuts to anyone that challenges me at the track.

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

I would suggest you pull the engine now and build it. Build the block to handle high hp, and bolt back stock peripherals onto it. Do the breakin and such now, while it is easy and there is no tuning/rigging to be done. By the time you have more money to modify, you have laid the foundation with a strong block and an easy breakin and you can go raise hell.

Looks like that thing has been sitting a long time from the dust in the pics and all the missing parts. That is why I say build it now.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

The engine has 120(front) and 118(rear) compression numbers.

What kind of re-enforcing should I look into?

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

IF those numbers are accurate then it has to be a damn near fresh rebuild, less than 30k miles. In that case, I would just ride it out until it died. But, rotaries that sit unturned for a long time are bad to up and let go for no reason...seals stick inside and don't like to be forced back into service. With those compression numbers, it must be nearly new, and hasn't had time to build up enough carbon to make anything stick inside.

I'd say you're okay with that. If you were serious about power, you'd want a big streetport or a half bridge, 3mm seals, possibly s4 8.5 rotors, hardened stationary gears and 3 window bearings, clearanced rotors, and the like. You get into serious money there, that is stuff I don't even offer in rebuilds.

1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

I am 90% sure that the numbers are accurate. I did the test twice just to be sure of it. I started to move the engine with a 19mm socket and a ratchet in both directions(I don't know if that is bad or not) while I lubed it up with two stroke oil and a little MMO.

I used a length of silicone tubing and my own lungs to hold some oil in the tubing and then release it into the exhaust ports of the engine doing maybe 1-2 ounces per chamber per rotor face. Every time I came to an apex seal I wiped it off and looked at it through the mirror I was using to see the rotation of the engine through the exhaust port and felt it with my finger. The all felt round and smooth not sharp or broken.

I think I am more worried about the rubber seals in it than the apex, corner and side seals.

My current plan involved no strengthening but I am thinking I should reconsider to save money down the road on engine components. I guess I will have to read up on the various forms of internal mods you pointed out. I have the RB catalog which includes most of what you said and I will re-read that section.(Big thankyou goes out to wankel7 for letting me have this while he is back home. thanks bud!) The porting that I wanted was in the order of a medium or large street port or a half bridge performed by Brian(BDC) and the rebuild most likely done by me so I can get to know the building process.

Santiago

RotaryResurrection

iTrader: (8)

Uh, I hate to break this to you, but putting oil/atf into the chambers drastically raises compression numbers. You wont be able to get an accurate reading until the thing is running normally and has burnt off all the oil internally. IF we all ran compression tests with oil in the chambers, we would all have 135psi of compression.

The true compression is probably 110 or less without oil.