s5 6 port turbo.. who's done it? questions inside
03-10-10, 04:05 PM
#51
Engine, Not Motor
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Just reference the S-AFC TPS line to a GM MAP sensor, and now you have an S-AFC that reads manifold pressure/load.
Though I still don't recommend an S-AFC for anything other then playing with a stock turbo.
As for the aux ports, they present clearance problems. While it kicks *** to keep them and use an appropriately sized turbo, the manifold fabrication required is beyond what most people want to do.
Though I still don't recommend an S-AFC for anything other then playing with a stock turbo.
As for the aux ports, they present clearance problems. While it kicks *** to keep them and use an appropriately sized turbo, the manifold fabrication required is beyond what most people want to do.
03-10-10, 10:18 PM
#52
Ah I didn't know you were going to use the T3, I haven't looked at the map for that turbo. I would personally use a T4 ball bearing instead especially if its for a 6 port high compression setup but the price different may be worth it. You might want to look at the cheap eBay T70 kits out there, its a pretty big housing for a T3 and it would probably meet your goals. You could have the manifold re-welded but the quality of the turbo might be an issue so you may want to search them. I always wondered how that setup would do on a car with lower power goals that can be acheived with a T3 hotside.
I'd rather try it, make it work and save money or try it have it suck and be out only $300-500 while still being able to go back to stock and send my stuff in for replacement due to failure linked to defect, not my setup.
Gt35r failures were linked to idiots believing they could get a full ball bearing turbo that cheap bnib and NOT CHECKING the chra to make sure it really was dual ball bearing. .030" ish restrictors were used and starved the bearing of oil destroying the shaft and bearing. Then they blamed the turbo and the seller instead of checking behind them. I'm totally willing to try it and instead of bracing the manifold against itself, i'd build a bracket that attaches to the housing to chra bolts and the engine/intake itself to take ALL the weight of the turbo off the manifold. Then if it does crack it's just from heat cycling and not the weight.
Back to tuning a 6 port.
We're chasing the goal of around 300hp. We know it cant be done or is a waste of time with a stock turbo. BNR is still an option for some.....dont take what i say about the bnr to heart. It's just my own tuning theory to personally not want one. My tuning theories and preferences are just that, mine. I dont claim they are the right or wrong or only way to get things done. Thought i'd put that out there before someone gets mad.....
I still have no idea where to start with injectors to use to keep afr's slightly rich to make that kind of power.
I've heard four 1000cc's, 720/850, 850/1000, 680/1200, 1000/1600........everyone has their own combo they'd run or are running. Not just six port but any twin rotor using high compression rotors.
We know the equation. More power needs more fuel and more fuel=safer engine and lower egt's.
With a turbo 6 port, especially shooting for 300+ protecting the engine is first and foremost.
If the op is as budget minded as i think he/she is than some insight into this will hep because we all know pinging a rotary is usually going to equal an expensive rebuild.
Bwek, thank you for pwning an evo. I'm not kidding when i say i hate 90 percent of late model evo owners.
The subie crowd is great for the most part. Really respectful and cool. I just can't stand evo guys. I clap for you!
03-10-10, 10:24 PM
#53
well know that i know that i'm getting a pretty decent tax return i'm not so much worried about the money aspect, but i'm not saying i have a whole **** load to spend either.. i just want to get all the info possible and then start buying parts. Btw, i'm a dude. Izzy is my nickname.
03-10-10, 11:05 PM
#54
It is but it isn't.
You can clip the wheel to help flow but you'll lose spool if you're after best possible response.
I'm still doing homework on the best suited turbo for the job on a six port with power goals between 300-350hp that can do so on low boost without running outside of the compressor map and without creating lots of back pressure within the manifold. Right now i'm down to .86" hotside gt35r, gt3071, holset hx35 with a 16cm2 exhaust side and 8 blade wheel, holset h1c with the same size exhaust side, and the good ol ebay t70/60-1 big shaft turbo that sells for $200 shipped bnib. I figure if i blow it up, it's easily replaced but it's the last option. I figured either turbo would spool alright on a stock port six port due to the higher compression.
You can clip the wheel to help flow but you'll lose spool if you're after best possible response.
I'm still doing homework on the best suited turbo for the job on a six port with power goals between 300-350hp that can do so on low boost without running outside of the compressor map and without creating lots of back pressure within the manifold. Right now i'm down to .86" hotside gt35r, gt3071, holset hx35 with a 16cm2 exhaust side and 8 blade wheel, holset h1c with the same size exhaust side, and the good ol ebay t70/60-1 big shaft turbo that sells for $200 shipped bnib. I figure if i blow it up, it's easily replaced but it's the last option. I figured either turbo would spool alright on a stock port six port due to the higher compression.
Well what about rtek?
4x 720's on a large frame turbo with aux injection and 2.0/2.1 should handle 10 psi, right?
I'm talking t70/60-1, t04b, gt3582 sized snails with 3" turbo back, fmic, and standard stock port.....
I'm s4 but the high compression turbo aspect is STILL there.
The gt35r i will be using has these specs:
Compressor
A/R: .63
inducer: 63.1mm
exducer: 82mm
inlet/outlet: 2.5" / 4.0"
Turbine
A/R: .70
inducer: 62mm
exducer: 67.8mm
Ball bearing cold side, journal hotside, not full ball bearing......
If it's not available at the time i need to make purchase i will grab a gt3582 instead. Not wanting to go bigger because i want full boost just off idle. Not wanting a peaky setup at all.
4x 720's on a large frame turbo with aux injection and 2.0/2.1 should handle 10 psi, right?
I'm talking t70/60-1, t04b, gt3582 sized snails with 3" turbo back, fmic, and standard stock port.....
I'm s4 but the high compression turbo aspect is STILL there.
The gt35r i will be using has these specs:
Compressor
A/R: .63
inducer: 63.1mm
exducer: 82mm
inlet/outlet: 2.5" / 4.0"
Turbine
A/R: .70
inducer: 62mm
exducer: 67.8mm
Ball bearing cold side, journal hotside, not full ball bearing......
If it's not available at the time i need to make purchase i will grab a gt3582 instead. Not wanting to go bigger because i want full boost just off idle. Not wanting a peaky setup at all.
03-11-10, 02:32 AM
#55
High Comp Booster
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so looks like you and i are going to embark on the same journey. Are you doing s4 or s5 6 port turbo? Also how confident are you on running an ebay turbo, i've contemplated this idea, but i have the nay-sayers saying i'm gonna regret it. What's your take on them, and if anybody else has any input on this, please feel free to chime in. Also, suggestions on a size of turbo for the 330-350 whp would be great too.
I think You could hit those numbers with a stock turbo and water injection pre-turbo maybe 15-16 psi Think is the key word here lol with all the supporting mods like 3" exhaust, injectors, pump etc etc Just remember any turbo you buy will be at least 19 years old lmfao
03-11-10, 05:58 AM
#56
With all of this talk about the lean spike while using a s-afc when going WOT from the lower rps, i just wanted to know if i have to really worry about this when using the Microtech LT-10s. The reason i as is because i AutoX this car on the regular. So i would hope that i can still use this car to autoX with after i do this work.
03-12-10, 02:53 AM
#59
i'm s4 izzy. Either way the na/t setups are going to be very similar. Standalone, larger than stock turbo....etc..... Similar work is involved to make it happen and keep it from blowing up.
I'm confident that i wont be necessarily pissing $300-400 away on a china turbo..... The manifold however i feel might not be worth buying...even in a pinch considering the used market for quality manifolds. I'm 50/50 on it right now but sold on the turbos and wastegates. Like bwek was saying people are running them (EVEN THE CHINA MANIFOLDS) on their 1-6 toyotas with great results.
I'm looking at making around 300hp on 8-10 psi with stock ports on this turbo but it's only speculation and it also depends on my exhaust setup. 8 psi with a 3" straight pipe with proper fuel and management might land me at that mark.
we shall see though. I was gauge "window" shopping last night and because i want accurate gauges to accurately take care of my engine and good gauges are anywhere from $100-300 EACH. It's all keyboard tuning until i actually have the setup completed, installed and on the rollers.
I'm confident that i wont be necessarily pissing $300-400 away on a china turbo..... The manifold however i feel might not be worth buying...even in a pinch considering the used market for quality manifolds. I'm 50/50 on it right now but sold on the turbos and wastegates. Like bwek was saying people are running them (EVEN THE CHINA MANIFOLDS) on their 1-6 toyotas with great results.
I'm looking at making around 300hp on 8-10 psi with stock ports on this turbo but it's only speculation and it also depends on my exhaust setup. 8 psi with a 3" straight pipe with proper fuel and management might land me at that mark.
we shall see though. I was gauge "window" shopping last night and because i want accurate gauges to accurately take care of my engine and good gauges are anywhere from $100-300 EACH. It's all keyboard tuning until i actually have the setup completed, installed and on the rollers.
03-12-10, 05:59 AM
#60
Let me know what turbo you plan on running i want to run something similar. I'm glad to see that there are a few people that think running a "china" turbo will be ok. whats the diff with the t3 and t4 flange on the turbo, and why are you choosing to run a t3? I was also "window" shopping for gauges and i sold on stack stepper motor gauges for everything besides the boost gauge. I think i'll be using an innovate wideband too.
03-12-10, 03:30 PM
#61
The Doctor
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Just a little side information. Garrett turbos quality has gone down the dumpster over the past few months. They've been outsourcing construction of the turbos. I read a article about it from a actual employee of garrett. Warehouses full of returned GT35's, 38's, 40's, and 42's. I can link you to it if you want.
On that note, I've heard lots of good results on the t70 turbos. As said before, spending 3-400 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year sounds a lot better than spending 1300 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year.
On that note, I've heard lots of good results on the t70 turbos. As said before, spending 3-400 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year sounds a lot better than spending 1300 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year.
03-12-10, 06:03 PM
#62
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No pistons I think that if you did a water injection setup with a stock turbo on s4 rotors should get you close to or over 300whp with a pretty much stock setup less the injectors and fuel management
03-13-10, 02:07 AM
#63
Just a little side information. Garrett turbos quality has gone down the dumpster over the past few months. They've been outsourcing construction of the turbos. I read a article about it from a actual employee of garrett. Warehouses full of returned GT35's, 38's, 40's, and 42's. I can link you to it if you want.
On that note, I've heard lots of good results on the t70 turbos. As said before, spending 3-400 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year sounds a lot better than spending 1300 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year.
On that note, I've heard lots of good results on the t70 turbos. As said before, spending 3-400 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year sounds a lot better than spending 1300 on a turbo and sending it back after 8 months to a year.
Dont believe everything you read on the internet. That garrett "letter/article" is bullshit. Garrett addressed it and addressed the forum where the "rumored email" first popped up on the web.
Also said gt ball bearing turbo from garrett has a chra buy back........so....in a way you're getting what you pay for. Not every china turbo vendor will give you the option to exchange your turbo in the event of a failure. Some will, just depends on who and the situation and how you handle yourself.
Izzy, here are the specs of the turbo i'm using. t3 flange but t4 flow.
compressor inlet :4 inch
Outlet: 2.5 inch
Compressor trim: .70 ar
Compressor Wheel diameter: 66.36 /81.87
Turbine wheel diameter : 64.50 /73.60
Exhaust trim: .82 ar
Turbine flange type: t3 flange
Downpipe flange type : 4 bolt downpipe flange
Twin scroll turbine housing
It's going to be a few months before i actually get it. I'm eager to get my hands on an emanage ultimate unit and profec e first to get a feel for tuning with it before i slap the stuff on but i'll be sure to document ALL my findings on the "path less traveled" online for others to use for reference.
03-13-10, 08:38 AM
#64
Good stuff, thanks for the info, i hope that you don't mind if i go with a similar turbo. On another note, i'm contemplating using a FD uim... good or bad idea? I have already sourced the adapter for it. WIll i need to change the pigtail on the wire harness so that it will work with the lt-10s? Anything else that i'll have to do/buy to run the FD uim. And on a final note, should i buy a fd oil pressure regulator to increase oil pressure in the system? Thanks to all who can shed light in this topic.
03-13-10, 11:22 AM
#65
so wait ..... i can sell my garret turbo back to garret? even if i didnt but it from them?
ethier way has anywun ever herd of a garret tv7512? i am curious if i will be able to spool this beast.
and another question... i dont think no one has asked the most important question.
HOW CAN WE ENSURE OUR ENGINES ARE IN GOOD SHAPE..(sorry for caps)
is there a way to check thru compression numbers and so on so fourth?
ethier way has anywun ever herd of a garret tv7512? i am curious if i will be able to spool this beast.
and another question... i dont think no one has asked the most important question.
HOW CAN WE ENSURE OUR ENGINES ARE IN GOOD SHAPE..(sorry for caps)
is there a way to check thru compression numbers and so on so fourth?
03-13-10, 05:32 PM
#66
Well, if it holds steady oil pressure and you get 6 good audible pops from the apex seals turning the engine over by hand you should be ok.....
That's how i went about selling my last motor. Took the belts off the e shaft and removed the uim. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.....all in equal tone/pitch. Check for bubbles in the coolant, make sure you dont have any oil leaks or vac leaks..... The usual stuff.
FD uim you can either have modified to fit or use the adapter plate. You'll need the tb and tps iirc. I thought about running it but it's far cheaper and easier for me to either retain the oem n/a manifold or switch to TII stuff.
The thermal pellet that's in the front of the e-shaft should have been shimmed already and switching to a turbo or fd oil pump is a good upgrade.... I'll be sticking with stock though and just simply shimming my thermal pellet.
Izzy, i dont mind if you use a similar turbo or even the same turbo. I honestly dont care about "copy cat" childish stuff. Do whatever works to make your car enjoyable.
That's how i went about selling my last motor. Took the belts off the e shaft and removed the uim. Pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, pop.....all in equal tone/pitch. Check for bubbles in the coolant, make sure you dont have any oil leaks or vac leaks..... The usual stuff.
FD uim you can either have modified to fit or use the adapter plate. You'll need the tb and tps iirc. I thought about running it but it's far cheaper and easier for me to either retain the oem n/a manifold or switch to TII stuff.
The thermal pellet that's in the front of the e-shaft should have been shimmed already and switching to a turbo or fd oil pump is a good upgrade.... I'll be sticking with stock though and just simply shimming my thermal pellet.
Izzy, i dont mind if you use a similar turbo or even the same turbo. I honestly dont care about "copy cat" childish stuff. Do whatever works to make your car enjoyable.
03-14-10, 03:14 AM
#67
High Comp Booster
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Dont believe everything you read on the internet. That garrett "letter/article" is bullshit. Garrett addressed it and addressed the forum where the "rumored email" first popped up on the web.
Also said gt ball bearing turbo from garrett has a chra buy back........so....in a way you're getting what you pay for. Not every china turbo vendor will give you the option to exchange your turbo in the event of a failure. Some will, just depends on who and the situation and how you handle yourself.
Izzy, here are the specs of the turbo i'm using. t3 flange but t4 flow.
compressor inlet :4 inch
Outlet: 2.5 inch
Compressor trim: .70 ar
Compressor Wheel diameter: 66.36 /81.87
Turbine wheel diameter : 64.50 /73.60
Exhaust trim: .82 ar
Turbine flange type: t3 flange
Downpipe flange type : 4 bolt downpipe flange
Twin scroll turbine housing
It's going to be a few months before i actually get it. I'm eager to get my hands on an emanage ultimate unit and profec e first to get a feel for tuning with it before i slap the stuff on but i'll be sure to document ALL my findings on the "path less traveled" online for others to use for reference.
Also said gt ball bearing turbo from garrett has a chra buy back........so....in a way you're getting what you pay for. Not every china turbo vendor will give you the option to exchange your turbo in the event of a failure. Some will, just depends on who and the situation and how you handle yourself.
Izzy, here are the specs of the turbo i'm using. t3 flange but t4 flow.
compressor inlet :4 inch
Outlet: 2.5 inch
Compressor trim: .70 ar
Compressor Wheel diameter: 66.36 /81.87
Turbine wheel diameter : 64.50 /73.60
Exhaust trim: .82 ar
Turbine flange type: t3 flange
Downpipe flange type : 4 bolt downpipe flange
Twin scroll turbine housing
It's going to be a few months before i actually get it. I'm eager to get my hands on an emanage ultimate unit and profec e first to get a feel for tuning with it before i slap the stuff on but i'll be sure to document ALL my findings on the "path less traveled" online for others to use for reference.
Dont buy the profec you can buy a nice netbook for that kind of money and tune via laptop which is far easier
Side note i just bought a greddy emanage ultimate used for $275 And i Sold my Emanage blue for $150 in one day :P
I did the Electronic boost controller mod on the Blue it feels soo good you can really feel when that stocker hits lol
looking forward to the Ultimate
03-17-10, 11:26 PM
#68
What to you guys think about a Precision Turbo PT-67. specs are 4 inch intake, non-divided .83 hotside. Can i make 350 whp to the wheels with this. reason i ask is i found a used one for a good price and great condidtion. let me know what you guys think.
03-25-10, 04:56 PM
#69
Update!
I just got my 6 port turbo lim. All the work was already done by Japanla2.
Anybody out there still. What do you guys think about a Hybrid T03/T04 turbo. its a 70 trim and a .69 ar. Will this turbo get me into the 300-350 range running about 10 psi? if anybody has any input let me know.
I just got my 6 port turbo lim. All the work was already done by Japanla2.
Anybody out there still. What do you guys think about a Hybrid T03/T04 turbo. its a 70 trim and a .69 ar. Will this turbo get me into the 300-350 range running about 10 psi? if anybody has any input let me know.
03-25-10, 09:59 PM
#70
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Update!
I just got my 6 port turbo lim. All the work was already done by Japanla2.
Anybody out there still. What do you guys think about a Hybrid T03/T04 turbo. its a 70 trim and a .69 ar. Will this turbo get me into the 300-350 range running about 10 psi? if anybody has any input let me know.
I just got my 6 port turbo lim. All the work was already done by Japanla2.
Anybody out there still. What do you guys think about a Hybrid T03/T04 turbo. its a 70 trim and a .69 ar. Will this turbo get me into the 300-350 range running about 10 psi? if anybody has any input let me know.
04-25-10, 12:33 PM
#72
How important is the turbo baffle behind the front cover? if you do not know what i'm reffering to here you go: http://forum.teamfc3s.org/attachment...8&d=1103329973 I cannot seem to find anyone that wants to see one.
04-25-10, 08:23 PM
#73
The Doctor
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How important is the turbo baffle behind the front cover? if you do not know what i'm reffering to here you go: http://forum.teamfc3s.org/attachment...8&d=1103329973 I cannot seem to find anyone that wants to see one.
Again, not personal experience, just from word of mouth.
04-25-10, 09:46 PM
#74
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Maybe someone with more building experience can ring in after me but I've been told its fairly important. When I asked a personal builder about it, he said it was important as the turbo front cover has the oil return for the turbo blowing on the oil pump chain and can put pressure on and cause issues with deflection of the chain if the baffle is not installed in a turbo car. On a n/a it isn't a issue.
Again, not personal experience, just from word of mouth.
Again, not personal experience, just from word of mouth.
I might add that I just fabricated one out of some sheetmetal. A little bend here, a little bend there, a little cut here and there with tin snips.......a couple of holes drilled in the sheet metal etc.
04-25-10, 09:52 PM
#75
Question.
If you buy an oil pan baffle and decide you want to drill and tap one of your irons (outside of the combustion area....you know, the legs that you hylomar/rtv during a rebuild) would that keep the oil from backing up into the pickup tube?
I'm probably going to buy a TII engine swap so i have everything i need BUT i'm slaping everything on to my n/a block beforehand but i was just curious.
The way our sumps are, oil pan fittings look like they'd back up rather easy under cornering.
If you buy an oil pan baffle and decide you want to drill and tap one of your irons (outside of the combustion area....you know, the legs that you hylomar/rtv during a rebuild) would that keep the oil from backing up into the pickup tube?
I'm probably going to buy a TII engine swap so i have everything i need BUT i'm slaping everything on to my n/a block beforehand but i was just curious.
The way our sumps are, oil pan fittings look like they'd back up rather easy under cornering.