1987RX7guy

iTrader: (3)

to the original poster good luck with it. Hopefully i'll have a good christmas suprise for all of you.

S

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

I don't care how long you've built them, go back and build some more, because I'm telling you, the A/C clutch DISENGAGES and spins FREELY, it provides little to no DRAG at all. I've done it on rx7's on dynos back to back for this very reason to prove it. And as far as I remember, the RX7 Ps clutch disengages as well, both via speed sensor or RPM (the two different models, i know they didn't have both)

kenn_chan

HIS CAR IS NOT HE CAR WE WERE SPEAKING ABOUT ORIGINALLY i MADE A SUGGESTION THAT POSSIBLY THE ORIGINAL POSTER DID NOT HAVE IT TUNED PROPERLY YET (AS HE HIMSLEF SAID) AND THAT MAYBE HE WAS LOOKING FOR MORE OF A DAILY DRIVER (RELIABILITY) AND THAT A ??? INCREASE OVER STOCK DEPENDING DEPENDING ON WHICH ACCESORIES HE HAD INSTALLED (ALONG WITH OTHER VARIABLES) COULD AND WOULD MAKE A LARGE DIFFERENCE.

YOUR FRIEND THEN MADE THE COMMENT THAT IT WOULDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE.


THIS WAS MY ORIGINAL POST:
Guys do yu have the full specs of what he's done....Not yet should be yur answer. Is he running cats, will it be an easy to start, easy to use dailey driver? I personally don't see much more than 190 with an NA that doesn't have some kind of porting done, but I am probably wrong, (isn't a side port good for about 220?) is his engine rebuilt? does it have Full accesories Includeing air pump and AC..... I know for a fact that there are many people on this forum who sacrifice bothof those creature comforts to maximize ther engines power and acceleration if he has all accesories installed and operateing, and makes 200 with out straining anything than 3000 dollars is a steal thats an easy chunk of drivable HP that we last for ever and a day....I am falling asleep at my comp must sleep. will argue Pros and cons later.

PLEASE NOTE THAT I ASKED IF YOU HAVE THE FULL SPECS ON WHAT HE HAS DONE? As it not all listed on this post thats why I asked a question about how the car ws setup. I also commented upon reliability christ i can make 300 hp on a NA with a carb, a distributor, and a 3" hole saw, but that doesn't make it reliable the 2 people who have been posting back and forth and the others making comments like oh thats only this or that or my car makes morehp or what not have missed the entire point of the original post for 3K and increase of 25% that will last for 5~10 years is perfectly acceptable as was stated in my original post.

right now I apologize to RX7fromCal for hijacking the thread, and the two of you probably should too.

RXciting

OK so still no torque curve or actually HP curve maybe he doesn't have alot of HP up top but it might be a nice full curve to go with the torque

Also just curiouse, what's the compression on the engine, and is it ported? Was it brought to or close to factory condition b4 the SC was added or is the engine on it way out??


I have to agee with Aaron, you didn't buy the system, you didn't pay for it, and it's not on your car, agreed that for some or maybe many ppl that's alot of money for that HP but it wasn't your money, so let the guy enjoy his new power band

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Well, the problem is, we've provided other methods, which are just as reliable (180k miles running 15psi is reliable wouldn't you think?) As for the whole 'difference' thing, you claimed one thing, which was untrue on rx7's, and I provided that it was wrong, but you continue to argue the same point. Furthermore, we're not 'bashing' or 'insulting' or anything to the original poster, we're trying to understand just what's going on, relaying our dislikes and concerns, and then explaining why they even exist. I've already stated over and over that the torque curve is the missing peice to actually determine anyone, but everyone keeps on rambling and posting about it. Like I posted earlier, there are two things that matter A) the HP increase was not a whole lot, and is kind of lacking for 10psi and B) the torque curve may be the saving grace, but until we can see it, we can't debate the whole 'is it worth it or not' because nobody knows how it'll look. So why everyone keeps debating these useless damn things I really don't know, but if you continue to post, I'll continue to answer with as much proofs as I can provide to prove what you say, or if I believe it wrong, to disprove. Welcome to the forum, where debate is #1!

Evil Aviator

The video game and import car magazine influence seems to have clouded this supercharger issue. Contrary to inhuman statistics tables, the look, sound, and feel of a sports car makes up its character as much, if not more so, than its more tangible aspects. For example, a convertible is always slower than its associated coupe version, so why do so many people like convertibles? It's because they give the driver a sensation that is not offered by the coupe. The same goes for a superchager. Sorry guys, but a belt-driven supercharger is not some cheap way to get extra horsepower out of your road roach. Rather, it is designed to allow for a "connected" feel of the engine for those who do not like the "disconnected" feel of a turbocharged engine. Also, a supercharger has a unique look and sound that differentiates it from the plethora of TII's on the road.

New and exciting? OK, but what about retro? FYI there are a LOT of people who prefer more traditional things over the current status quo. It would be a very sad world if the only things for sale were those determined by the cultural elite to be the "in" things.

I'm going to need to disagree with this assessment because a supercharger makes more noise than a turbocharger since there is no turbine wheel soaking up noise in the exhaust stream. Also, a TII engine would be just as drivable at the same output level.

No, not necessarily. The point of a belt-driven supercharger is to have boost based on rpm rather than load, and it's not really any more complicated than that. Were low-end torque only associated with blowers, you would not see so many semi trucks and military armored vehicles fitted with turbochargers.

Agreed. I know people who spent more than 3K on their paint job, lol.

Bukwild

all I know is their is a guy who runs a black NA with a M90 supercharger on it and he says that he has not dyno'd it yet but he thinks he has 250rwhp. I never belived that **** once especially because his car wines like he has 400rwhp but when he takes off and goes through the gears he cant ever peel the tires. You can hear the car coming down the street it sounds bad ***. I think these number posted above are about right with what this guy around here has as well because we raced and I smoked him 30-120mph like he was not even racing. Race was over in second gear. So I have no reason to ever recommend to someone that they should ever spend 1 dollar on supercharging

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

That's funny, when I've built m90 setups running 275 (14psi, air to water, stock port), but it depends if it's done properly. I've also just helped with a whipple install, can't wait to see that one. The problem is most people use the stock manifolds and force the charger to run the entire time instead of actually relocating the TB and etc.

RX7FROMCAL

ok guys after reading all your comments , ill post my shitty dyno . then u guys can have a hayday, im going back in wed to finish the tuning, but for u who want to see it no prob ill post it on monday when i get back to my office. cya all drive safe. specs on car 45.000 miles on the engine header to the stock cat 2.5 exhaust from the cat back 450 prime 650 secondary,walbro 255 fuel pump.apexi 2 ,stock ecu no air hook up just power stering also nos 60shot thats not hooked and beleave me it is running at about 9.5 tp 10 of boost, unless my gadge is lieing , lol. thats what the car has im sure im forgetting something. so pick that apart.im new to this rotory stuff , so if i forgot something, im sure ill post it when it comes to mind. cya all

88t2romad

cant we all just get along??? : they guy with the beer looks happy, so go have a beer and shut up

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=dDuB]I did, at one point, have intention to buy this. I emailed atkins/camden numerous times during its development with questions and was eager for its arrival. And I do have the money to do so. But after seeing the gains, or lack there of, I've decided a turbo'd n/a project is more suited for my goals. I had both of them in mind and ever since I decided I wanted to go forced induction I've been weighing the costs/gains of each to decide what I wanted to do. Now I know.[/.quote]

I think you're in the minority. As much as it pains me to say this, 90% of 2nd gen owners are cheap. They do things like install used differential mounts to save a few dollars.

The question I always ask myself is "Would I buy it?". I think the answer is yes. Why? Because it's different. Its something to experiment with. And I have to believe that there is much more power available then the base setup.

That's what I'm interested in. It's probably not all about peak gains, but continuous gains through the RPM range.

This would be regarding building the NA with an obnoxiously loud exhaust, radical porting, etc. And the target audience doesn't necessarily want to swap engines/drivetrains.

snub disphenoid

I took my car out for a drive last night, and I noticed that the power was much more substantial. Launching from anywhere above 3k is just plain stupid, and the car breaks the tires loose inside a turn at 3000rpm.

To dispell one myth about superchargers - you won't see full boost until about 4000rpm. You get about .3bar at 2500, .4 bar at 3000, and I'm seeing .6bar by 4000rpm. Boost starts to peter out after 6000rpm, but the car feels like it makes power to 7500rpm. Only the dyno will tell the true story. As for my butt dyno, I'm no expert, but it's telling me about 180-190hp untuned.

I also think my cat got clogged up, because my car was dumping fuel into the exhaust for a long time. I'm going to have a test pipe fabricated, then I'll see what's up.

13bpower

I was going by the information they supplied during development stages. I was also drawing from what they have done with supercharged carbed 12a's (that is capable of well over 250whp).

Everyone knows an N/A is capable of 171hp at the wheels. Take a N/A already at that point, install this kit, add fuel, tune it and then tell me it won't be in the "250whp range". That is what the kit is CAPABLE OF.

This place is pathetic sometimes. Everyone bitching about a well developed product for are cars because its not cheap enough.

snub disphenoid

Does anyone want a video? I'll do a 3rd gear pull from 2000-7500 to let you guys get an idea of how the power and boost builds, if you want.

RX7FROMCAL

hey snub call me , we need to talk about this sc thing man!!!!

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Make sure you find a nice empty spot to do it! Can't wait to see the dyno graph.

ddub

The superchargers for the 12a's and the carbed versions come in larger sizes, too. Remember that. Camden makes what a 5, 7, 9, and 12 inch version of their superchargers? The one suited as a "kit" for the 2nd gen that everyone is buying I believe is a 7 inch version, so DUH it can make more power from stock on the 12a's, they have kits for up to the largest size. Right now for 2nd gens all it says for anything above 7inch is "custom" and no kit is available.

The fact is that the camden chargers are not the most efficient ones to use and it's going to be hard to see 250 rwhp from the kit they have available now.

I am not trying to put this kit down completely here, you need to know this. I think it is great for people with moderate goals for power that want an easy product to install with no real headaches. I really can't way to see the dyno graph, I'm very interested. Who knows maybe that'll change my mind a bit!

snub disphenoid

http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4287377813

Fifth video, if you dont' have a membership, use:

user: rx7club
pass: knowsaboutyou

(is that right? sonicrat? anyone?)

Anyways, that's a third gear pull from 3500-7200. The first two gears are damned impressive but after third gear you realize that you don't have THAT much power. The power delivery feels almost the same, but there's significantly more midrange punch. I'll pop in a test pipe, get it tuned and get you guys a graph on Friday.

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Yes, that's the account i made for the club. Downloading vid now!

Sounds pretty good, doesn't quite wind out as fast as I'd of hoped, but then again it's a 3rd gear pull. I'm kind of interested in how the torque curve is going to look, since generally the n/a runs 4ports down that low, and now all 6 are open so it has to make up for that, so i'm interested in seeing what it does.

snub disphenoid

Well, not to make excuses or anything, but the car is completely untuned, and it has a fat exhaust restriction with the cat being blown into itself.

I should film how U-turns are performed now, it's rather impressive.

ddub

I dunno you can't really tell much, at least I can't. It's just a video of your tach and speedo, so I can't tell if you're really zooming off that much.

Can't wait for yours, or anyones, dyno graph eventually

SonicRaT

iTrader: (6)

Lol, but that's nothing the stock cars couldn't do easily themselves. Be nice to see how it does in a 1/4 or so.

RX7FROMCAL

i guess snub doesnt wanna swop ideas about this supercharger thing . oh well, ive tryed!!

kettlman

iTrader: (2)

DAMN! why is it that everytime i look around the second gen section.........
there's always people whinning and putting others down?
i'm glad i have a 1st gen!

RX&FROMCAL: do you like the supercharger? if so, THATS ALL THAT MATTERS! hope the next dyno goes well for you. i think you've been a good sport in all this. i would have just told them to **** off and buy what they want and let it be at that. i've driven 3 supercharged cars so far. and i like them. the begining power and the sound is awsome. and for power. well, a good tune will help high end. and help drivability also. i've been told of another supercharged engine (not stock) producing over 400 rwhp. so who cares what all the "KNOW IT ALLS" say. and check the pulley and ask atkins wich one it actually is. i believe the 5# pulley comes with the kit. my friends hits 211 with the 5# pulley( oh yeah.. the dyno sheet was posted in the nw section at one time.. i'm sure some-one here has seen that one). wants to goto the 11# but needs to change injectors and stuff.

so good luck and please post the dyno graph and what ever it is... as long as you like it.

by the way.. how much hp does the stock turbo2 produce?
he's doing better than one of those!

RETed

You know, you're right...
But the above statement has nothing to do with the thread.


-Ted