apexFD

Hey guys.

I work as an aircraft refueler at an airport and i have access to 100LL (100 Octane LowLead). I can get it at cost, which turns out to be a lot cheaper than 94 Octane.

My car is a 1991 Rx7 Turbo, HKS Intake/3"downpipe to highflow cat with a 3" dual cat back.

My questions are...

1. Would 100LL harm my engine in anyway shape or form if i ONLY ran it with 100LL?? ie. seals, housings, turbo

2. Would it be worth my while from a preformance standpoint if my car is pretty much stock. If so what kind of gains can i see?

3. How regularly would i have to change my spark plugs? Concidering that i change them every 12 months.


Thanks in advance.

-Ben

Syncro

iTrader: (1)

I wonder if NASA employees who work with the shuttle have the same thoughts...

If you end up going for it, I demand updates!

nik

This is a huge waste of time if your car is stock. However, if you are overboosting due to your exhaust to 12+ psi then it may be useful safety cushion(maybe mix 50-50 with 91 octane).

The stuff wont' harm anything but O2 sensors. ***Edit: Just read you have a cat, I suspect it will be severely damaged by the lead. I've run it quite a bit it my car. It's a good fuel but you need to adjust ign timing as it has different combustion characteristics than mogas.

Just curious how much you were paying for it?

Oh yeah, your tailpipes will be white/grey from the lead and your car smell like a plane

Icemark

cat and O2 will die very very quickly using even VLL

With no (or a bad O2) the ECU will run rich at idle and mileage will drop

apexFD

^ Thanks Icemark, i was hoping you would come to the rescue.

Ya I dont want to have to change O2 sensors every month... I think ill just bit the bullet on this one..


Edit: Unless theres a magical O2 sensor that isnt affected by Lead

nik

Some O2 sensors last better than others. Also, some are quite cheap. I was running a 4 wire heated VW sensor, it cost 40$. My wideband also lasted quite well. There is no doubt their life is shortened, but it's not as drastic as a CAT would be, and a lot cheaper.

RETed

Do you realize that what you're proposing is also HIGHLY ILLEGAL?
Aircraft fuel is not taxed like autmotive gasolines, so your local state and federal tax departments are going to be pretty interested in you doing this.


-Ted

raptor22

Why do they have to know.

My ground school instructor ran his old corvette on avgas.

--Alex

RETed

It's just a warning.
I didn't say it was highly enforced.
If you go to jail, don't go crying you didn't know.


-Ted

Evil Aviator

No, an aluminum/ammonium perchlorate mix wouldn't flow very well into an internal combustion engine, and HTP is way too scary. In other words, NASA employees are too meek and **** retentive to try something crazy like that.

The US has massive fines for both the buyer and seller, but I am not aware of any jail time. The original poster is in Canada, so things may be different there. Based on the more left-wing environmental and taxation policies in Canada, they probably shoot anybody who runs AVGAS in a street car, lol.

In the US, the government usually gives a cut of the fine to the person who turns you in.

gxlbiscuit

ted you are such a party pooper....... god........ i have a buddy that has his own planes/airfield and from time to time we use it(100LL)... on his piston engine cars i havent put aything over 93 in my car yet.. im 290rwhp....stock motor.. before reted became ECO-SS/captain planet he was right youll start eatting o2 sensors...

nik

There's really not even that much lead in it. It's on par with racing gasolines(for lead content).

It's definately illegal here too. The lead in mainly dangerous in unburned fuel, as post combustion it's not in a form readily absorbed by the body.

fastrotaries

Don't do it. I am a pilot and also an Alumni of Embry Riddle Aeronautical Univ. Who for those that don't know are on the verge of getting an FAA certification for a rotary engine. From the research that the school conducted, 100LL has waaayyy too much lead and will really gum up on the seals for long term use. I.e. 2000 hr TBO. they're going to certify the engine for use with automotive gas. If you call, Atkins rotary ( who are also pilots) they'll tell you the same thing. The father has a sweet RV6 powered by a 13B. experimental ofcourse. SO to answer your question....no not worth it.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

in this particular case, it's pointless on an unmodified car anyway and it will mess up your cat. The O2 sensor will not die immediately though...

But... is there really some kind of consensus that leaded gas ruins the seals in a rotary engine? Didn't the early Rx cars in the 70s run on leaded? Many of the cars making big power have leaded gas... i mean yeah your motor might not last 100k miles or whatever, but detonation is always worse than a little bit of lead.

Or does Avgas really just have a really high concentration of it? I'm just a big skeptic that lead will actually hurt seals. On piston motors, lead acts as a lubricant... Somebody needs to cite a source on these studies.

Either way, when I do a turbo upgrade, the car won't see less than 110. I've got 4k miles on the motor and I'm realistically not looking for more than 20k, which is a couple years.

bryanfc

Heehee

move to australia, we have 98 and 100 octane at service stations

steve2323

100LL is low lead but only compared to gas from years back , by todays standards 100LL probley has more lead than pump gas. Also as a ski doo inthuiest that gas is desined 4 high alttatude and 4 wide open throtal if u use it any other way your looking 4 trouble.

Risky Devil

iTrader: (1)

I'm sure RETED doesn't break the speed limit either since its highly illegal.
Instead he races on the internet for fun

raptor22

Only designed for high altitude/full throttle? Umm...no.

Cruise conditions for a short GA flight are about 70% throttle and a few thousand feet, and the airplanes run PERFECTLY fine off of it.

nik

Looks like this thread has turned into a big pile of misinformation now. This stuff has no more lead than racing gasolines.

Bottom line don't waste your time with a stock/ish car.

My5ABaby

iTrader: (7)

For some unknown reason I'm going to defend RETed. All he did was state that it's illegal. God forbid he give out useful information for once.

scathcart

Someone getting shot in Canada? There's no guns up here.

There would be a fine, if that, and that's it. Our judicial system is so pathetic that you can get house arrest for murder 1 if you "are too small physically that you would be brutalized in prison". Pretty much ANY crime these days gets you mere house arrest, unless its you're a mega-repeat offender, and even those guys get nothing. First crime is always just a warning.

Its really frustrating to the taxpayers and law abiding citizens, and even more so to the police and RCMP, but the judges seem to have this drive to maintain Canada's image of being compassionate to anyone, even those who make mistakes which cause immense grief to the public. Things are getting a little better under the current conservative government (not that I support the cons. gov't, though).

An example: recently, in BC, a gas station attendant stepped in front of a car that was trying to drive away after stealing $12 in gas. The driver ran him over, and dragged him more than 6 miles to his death. The police followed the trail of blood. The driver called one of his friends while he was dragging this guy, and bragged about how he could here the victim screaming from underneath the car.
The driver was sentenced to something like 7 years in jail, but a panel of judges found the original judge was too harsh in his original sentence, and reduced it to 5 years.
That's just plain fucked.... but I guarantee you would get more jail time for lynching him.

Evil Aviator

Thanks, but I would rather avoid your poor quality control.
http://www.btinternet.com/~madmole/R...RONMONPON.html

Speeding isn't highly illegal in the US. Most of the time you just get a fine of a few hundred dollars. That is a lot different than getting fined $25,000.

All internet forum threads turn into a big pile of misinformation.

Less actually. Over the years the lead content of 100LL has lessened to about 2g/gal. Leaded race gas is usually 3 to 8g/gal.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that, lol.

RotaMan99

Im also a fueler at an air field and have debated using 100LL just as "free fuel". Extra sediment and water checks

apexFD

^ Haha, thats funny. Now that i think of it... We dispose of 2L of 100LL and JetFuel every morning.. i guess my fuel could be free!! Im sure my company wouldnt care, saves them the trouble of disposing of it.


We actually use to run out International truck out here on our waste avgas... But thats a truck and its sure not a picky rotary engine.


I think to be on the safe side ill just use 94... Its not too big of a deal, i just though i possibly found the holy grail of milking free fuel.

Thanks for all the input guys

-Ben

raptor22

I would definitely think about running on 100LL if I could get it free...but don't put jet fuel in there. I mean, you want your car to run, right?