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Hey guys trying to get a little help with my 89 turbo 2. So I've had the car for a while. I Usually let others work on it but right now im trying to learn more and get things fixed on my own. So the car sat for about 6 months to a year from general laziness. Anyway Got it back up and running around March. Then it started running rough. Bogging, back firing and cutting off while driving and then nota starting right up for a while afterwards. Did a compression test and had right around 90 on both rotors so I figured the engine is good. Sent the injectors off to get them cleaned as I read that some of my symptoms point to that. Got them back got them installed and now the car will only spin but not start. Tried deflooding method per Aaroncake with oil in the plug holes then Tried to check for spark by having the spark plug in its wire by a strut Tower bolt and cranking while looking for arc but got nothing. Also thought about checking for codes but since I have a Haltech I'm not sure how that plays into it. If you guys can point me in a general direction or give me things to check and or rule out that would be great.
Car:
Turbo 2
Haltech e6k
550 prim 1600 sec
Supra fuel pump rewired
Ngk plugs and wires
If you weren't able to see spark by laying a leading spark plug on the strut tower, then that is your likely issue. Next step up is to check for 12V power on the ignitor at the TAN wires. If you have 12V there, then make sure the ignitor is receiving a signal from the Haltech on I believe the pink/red wire. Easiest way to do this is with an LED in series with a 1K resistor to ground. Or if you have one, a scope.
Are you able to connect a laptop to the Haltech and verify it sees RPM while cranking?
Ok I will check for power in the ignitor. As far as seeing if the ignitor it receiving a signal from the Haltech I'm not familiar with led in series or a scope. Can you elaborate on that a little more. Don't have access to a laptop right now but I will get one to check rpm
I believe the resistor is used to prevent the light from damaging the electrical circuit. An LED can be purchased at a Radio Shack and they already have the resistor built into the light apparatus.
I had the PS1000.
You would never believe that a fuse could go ..just like that...out of the blue.
Replaced it and never blew the fuse again..(weird..!)
*check fuses yet?..common stuff gets overlooked sometimes!
Just rechecked the fuses misterstyx69. Everything looked good with them. Thanks for the double check though.
So I got a multimeter and here is how I checked for 12 volts at the coils since this was my first time using one. Put the red lead to power and the black lead to ground on the battery to make sure I was reading 12 volts. I was. Then red lead was placed on the nut with tan wire that is under the plastic cover on the The coil/ignitor while black stayed on a ground. Nothing. did that for both coils(leading and trailing). Is it likely that both set of coils went at the same time or am u performing this check wrong. Thanks guys
If the Black/Yellow wires measure 12 volts w/key to on then that is good. You also want to measure the Brown/White wire at the boost sensor w/key to on and that will tell you that the ECU is powered properly and that the vref signal sent to the engine sensors is good as well. The reading should be close to 5 volts. You could then check for spark at the lead coil. Pull the plug wires off of the coil bore and lay them right up against the bore and w/key to start there should be spark at both bores.
The Green/Yellow wire at the lead coil comes from your Haltech. It signals the lead coil when to fire. W/key to on and the alternator pulley being rotated it rotates the main pulley which signals the CAS which then signals the Haltech which then sends a 5 volt signal on the G/Y wire. The 5 volt signal is very very brief and for the most part the signal on the G/Y wire will read 0 volts. If the ECU is powered and looking okay as measured on the boost sensor wire then you should have the trigger signal for the coil on the G/Y wire.
Not sure if your ECU uses the AFM but if it does you might want to unplug it and retest for spark.
So I checked the black yellow wire and it's reading .20 volts. Far from the 12 volts it needs. Not sure about the stock boost sensor still since I have the Haltech. Where else should I be checking for that. Still No rpm signal. As far as the green wire and spinning the alternator to check for voltage for the cas How would I go about that with the car giving me such a hard time getting Going.
Guessing I can check for power at the Haltech next?
So I checked the black yellow wire and it's reading .20 volts. Far from the 12 volts it needs. Not sure about the stock boost sensor still since I have the Haltech. Where else should I be checking for that. Still No rpm signal. As far as the green wire and spinning the alternator to check for voltage for the cas How would I go about that with the car giving me such a hard time getting Going.
Guessing I can check for power at the Haltech next?
Because it is something which is done "by hand." Never mind checking it for now so as to concentrate on other things.
If the B/Y wire at the lead coil has .2 volts w/key to on then obviously something is wrong (or did you measure it w/key to off). Either the main relay is not operating properly or the EGI fuse is blown.
Go to the main relay. It has two plugs. One has 2 wires and the other has 4 wires. The White/Red wire in the 4 wire plug must have constant voltage (no key). If it does not then the EGI fuse is likely blown. Second, if the W/R wire checks out okay then check the Black/White wire of the 2 wire plug w/key to on as it should have 12 volts. If it does not then the 15 amp engine fuse (interior fuse box) is likely blown.
Checked the white red wire and it had 12 volts with key off. The black/white wire is there but the plug is gone. It's been spliced into other wires it looks like. Also there is no engine fuse when I checked. Is there Anyway the Haltech can be made to run without it. I have touched nothing as far as fuses in the last 8 years since its been running like this. I even stuck a fuse In the engine spot to see what would happen and still nothing.
Checked the white red wire and it had 12 volts with key off. The black/white wire is there but the plug is gone. It's been spliced into other wires it looks like. Also there is no engine fuse when I checked. Is there Anyway the Haltech can be made to run without it. I have touched nothing as far as fuses in the last 8 years since its been running like this. I even stuck a fuse In the engine spot to see what would happen and still nothing.
The main relay is activated by the two wire plug thus I don't understand how the car could run w/o it. If the relay was just bypassed then the B/Y wire at the coils would have constant voltage. If they don't then there is something else in its place. And the engine fuse powers the main relay, alternator, circuit opening relay.
Did you ever check the B/Y wire at the coils w/key to on?
Yes I just rechecked it. Still the same low voltage with key on. So the yellow/black wire from the lead coil is running toward the front of the car bound with some other wires that are taped up. These wires run up to a relay down the other side of the relay is a fuse that goes straight to the + side of the battery. The other wires that are loomed up go back to the other coil 2 plug connector. Also the relay gets warm turning the key on. Should I be checking that fuse for ohms maybe ?it doesn't look blown
I wouldn't count on me making heads or tales out of the picture.
And when checking the fuse it should be done removed from what is holding it. And the other wire should supply voltage to the fuse so it could pass the power on to the B/Y wire.
You need to figure out how the relay is being bypassed as in where is the wire which is supposed to supply voltage to the fuse which you say is hooked up to the black/Yellow wire that runs to the coils.
If the Haltech was installed with the Haltech harness, then the main relay was likely completely bypassed as the Haltech harness comes with a set of relays and fuse panel.
Can you take some detailed pictures of the coil connection area, the area the Haltech ECU is mounted (with fuses, relays), find out where the Haltech 12V trigger wire ties into (hopefully the key switch) and some general pictures of the wiring on the engine?
In theory, no stock stuff will be used. But anyone can install a standalone however they wish, and it's usually wrong.
This is where the computer is. I realize it's a mess when I looked at it. I honestly never really looked down here before since the car has worked prior.
Where the harness comes out of the firewall
Relays and fuses
Harness coming across for various sensors
Underneath the trailing coil near the main relay
Trailing coil and leading coil wire meet up. leading coil has fused relay to the battery
Not sure what this wire is.just saw it.
Another view of leading coil wires
Underneath the dash wiring. Think the 12 volt switch power is going to the window.
That is a horrifying installation. I would not consider that car drivable.
It's not immediately obvious what is causing your issue but I will get back to that in a moment.
Off hand, I see:
-Haltech fuse box and relays hanging in the engine bay. These components are not sealed and not designed to be installed outside the cabin of the car. All of that stuff should be inside and under the dash where it is nice and dry.
-MAP sensor installed horizontally. The MAP sensor must be installed with the nipple pointing down so that any liquid accumulating in the hose stays in the hose. Try pulling the hose and see if it is full of oil.
-Not entirely sure what the black wire with the red crimp connector is. But unsealed crimp connectors fail about 3 minutes after they are installed.
-Looking at the trailing connector it looks like the Haltech harness is connected via two blue crimp connectors. The wires should be connected to the harness wires that lead to the white and red wires on the coil pack side. The tan wires on the coil side should lead to switched 12V supplied by either the stock harness or more preferably, a newly run wire from the Haltech harness. Blue crimp connectors should be replaced by sealed connectors.
-I think the terrifying relay near the battery is the power relay for the coils as you say the wires meet up. Yikes. From there at least you can confirm that the coils receive 12V with the key on by tracing the wires from that relay.
To the problem at hand. I'd concentrate around that coil relay near the battery. Test it to make sure it switches with the key on, that there is steady 12V at its output, and that those wires lead unbroken to the tan wires at each coil pack.
Also check all the Haltech relays that they activate with the key on and supply 12V to the Haltech.
Can you connect up a laptop to the Haltech and verify it sees RPM, MAP, etc. while cranking?
So here's the thing. If someone brought that car to me with your symptoms I'd tell them flat out I wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole and would only be willing to fix it by completely rewiring the Haltech.
Thanks for the honest reply Aaroncake. So the update is I got a computer. Going to connect it to the Haltech to see if I can diagnose anything.
Also checked the area you were talking about some more Aaroncake and satch.
The relay had +12 volts sometime and then not. This changed after tapping it some. Car would still not start though. So I got a new relay to try out. I started checking the other relays for clicking first when I noticed a spark plug wire and plug by be strut tower sparking. So I try To start the car and it starts up with a big puff of smoke. It then cuts off as I back it out of the driveway. So it seems like it might be the relay. Maybe that would explain it cutting off while driving if the relay dealing with spark is only working intermittently. What do you guys think?
Thanks for the honest reply Aaroncake. So the update is I got a computer. Going to connect it to the Haltech to see if I can diagnose anything.
Also checked the area you were talking about some more Aaroncake and satch.
The relay had +12 volts sometime and then not. This changed after tapping it some. Car would still not start though. So I got a new relay to try out. I started checking the other relays for clicking first when I noticed a spark plug wire and plug by be strut tower sparking. So I try To start the car and it starts up with a big puff of smoke. It then cuts off as I back it out of the driveway. So it seems like it might be the relay. Maybe that would explain it cutting off while driving if the relay dealing with spark is only working intermittently. What do you guys think?
What precisely does this mean (seems a bit vague)?
Haha. Sorry about the rushed post. Guess it was a little vague.
I was saying I appreciated the recent comments from everyone. It has helped me learn some more about the car.
Next I just wanted to give an update with what's happened since the last post. I wAs able to get a laptop computer. I've got the Haltech software loaded and I now just need the correct cable to pair it with the car. By doing this I hope to see if I can learn anything from the Haltech pertaining to the way the car has been running.
I rechecked for +12 volts and continuity at the relay connected to the coils and got it. I also got spark while checking for power so decided to try to start the car. It started but died as I was reversing out of the garage. So Maybe the intermittent relay (that controls the leading coil and spark)cutting out would possibly be causing the car to cut off while running?
The dying while in reverse is not that odd for a car which has not run in a while. Perhaps letting it idle for a long time before putting it in reverse and also feathering the throttle while backing up might help some. If it continues to die while in reverse then there are things you can address.
10-21-16, 07:53 AM
I would not consider that car drivable.