May have preemptively pulled my motor for a rebuild
10-22-18, 01:20 AM
#1
May have preemptively pulled my motor for a rebuild
Hello all, so I jumped the gun and pulled my motor asuming bad coolant seals and didnt compression test it. How much coolant should have come out if they were blown and how can I compression test the motor now thst its out? I have come across someone selling a turbo kit they took off of their motor and want to save the money I would spend on the coolant seals.
10-22-18, 04:25 AM
#2
Hook up the bellhousing (if separable) or the whole transmission to the back of the engine, install starter, then rig the starter wiring to work. If you've left the main harness in the car like I suspect, you can either extract it from the car or make a simple test harness. Positive terminal of the battery to a button and to the lug that isn't already hooked up on the solenoid (the other is the starter field wire - don't touch it), opposite end of the button to the solenoid trigger (small tab in between the lugs you use a spade connector on). Ground the body of the transmission or starter to the negative terminal of the battery. Make sure the wiring is pretty beefy for the lugs (it's like 6AWG on the stock harness I believe) and that the engine is not going to flop around when the inertia tries to make the engine dance. The rest is standard fare - plugs out, thread in gauge, crank engine, and watch for consistent pulses.
Ideally, no coolant should be making its way to the combustion chamber. You can try setting the engine nose up, cap the rear iron heater hose and throttle body coolant nipples, filling the coolant jackets with water, and peering into the exhaust ports to see if water is pooling inside the engine. You should check it under pressure as well, but that's tricky now that the engine is out of the car. What you can do if you have some tools is cut and drill a plate to cover the water pump housing flange on the front iron, tap in a schrader valve or quick disconnect air fitting, cap the 2 nipples tightly with hose clamps, fill the engine with water, bolt the plate on with a gasket (with the studs on, you might need a lot of washers or you can fit the water pump housing over it and then tighten the nuts onto that), and then apply compressed air to the previously mentioned fitting. Keep the pressure down, since the stock cap only goes to 0.9 bar (13 psi). I'd just use a bicycle pump to do it. Watch for if it doesn't hold pressure as well.
Best of luck
Ideally, no coolant should be making its way to the combustion chamber. You can try setting the engine nose up, cap the rear iron heater hose and throttle body coolant nipples, filling the coolant jackets with water, and peering into the exhaust ports to see if water is pooling inside the engine. You should check it under pressure as well, but that's tricky now that the engine is out of the car. What you can do if you have some tools is cut and drill a plate to cover the water pump housing flange on the front iron, tap in a schrader valve or quick disconnect air fitting, cap the 2 nipples tightly with hose clamps, fill the engine with water, bolt the plate on with a gasket (with the studs on, you might need a lot of washers or you can fit the water pump housing over it and then tighten the nuts onto that), and then apply compressed air to the previously mentioned fitting. Keep the pressure down, since the stock cap only goes to 0.9 bar (13 psi). I'd just use a bicycle pump to do it. Watch for if it doesn't hold pressure as well.
Best of luck
10-22-18, 11:04 AM
#3
Ok, I will be able to work on the car this weekend so I will try those things and get back to you. Thank you for the input. I see you have a 6 port turbo, this is what I plan on doing with this car. do you have any tips that would help me along the way? What ecu are you running?
10-22-18, 02:26 PM
#5
Yes, no dropoff in pressure is a good sign. I would still inspect the exhaust ports to be sure.
My 6 port turbo build is a little out there, so I'm not sure how applicable it will be to you. S4 block, T62-1, shooting for 350-400WHP. With that goal in mind, I never bothered thinking about the stuff most 6 port turbo guys do, like NA or T2 ECU, piggyback or whatever. I'm jumping straight into a Megasquirt standalone. Not sure on MS2 or MS3X yet.
A 6 port turbo is a lot of forging your own way. Straight away, you need to decide on what your power goal is. Everything is decided by that. While you may be tempted to look more at how much effort each route is and decide based on that, you're ultimately going to be doing a ton of fabrication work, so it doesnt matter in the end. First things first since regardless of power goal, it's going to be insufficient: make sure fueling can catch up. Pump and injectors are necessary at a minimum. Size according to your power goal and turbo (bigger turbo can run less pressure for the same power goal, which demands less out of the fuel pump, but they're also slower to spool). That then necessitates some control strategy on the ECU side. Piggyback, rtek-type of chipped ecu, or standalone. A wideband O2 is pretty much a minimum to properly tune it.
You will either need to have a custom turbo manifold made or do some sort of spacer like with Aaron Cake's early build if you stick to the stock intake manifolds (check out his website, it's a required read for anyone building a 6 port turbo). You will also need custom charge piping, a throttle body inlet adapter, and air intake. This is a bit easier and more parts are available off the shelf if you convert to T2 intake manifolds. On the stock ECU, piggyback or not, you'll have to also deal with the MAF. Then is the intercooler of course, which is most easily done with an FMIC setup (being in new york, you shouldnt have heat management issues). You'll need a downpipe as well.
You're definitely going to need to chuck your air pump and ACV. There just isnt space for the stock system. Block off plates as appropriate, and while youre at it, may as well block off the EGR. For S5, air pump removal also means needing to convert the actuation of your auxiliary intake port sleeves and VDI to work electronically (RotaryRessurection has a writeup) or deleting. Consider if your state/county requires emissions testing/visual. If it's just sniffer, you can often get away with an electric air pump as substitute.
Depending on the turbo, you will at least need oil feed/drain and possibly water feed/drain. A common solution for oil feed is to install an oil filter sandwich, with the oil drain being a bit more tricky. Most take off the oil pan and weld a bung to that. I would rather tap the side of the front cover in a similar way to the T2 front cover, but if you're leaving the engine in the car, you dont want to disturb the front hub bolt to remove the front cover lest the thrust bearings fall down. You'd have to drop the pan anyways, then drill/tap on the engine, making sure to flush out the chips meticulously. Water feed and drain if you need it, you should just tap into the water pump housing and thermostat neck.
Another thing to look out for is the clutch. There's a strong possibility that it'll slip with the increased power. Look at other forum members' cars to see the numbers they're putting down and pay especial attention to the torque numbers. Match one closest to your build and then spec a clutch from that. The clutch only cares about torque, not power, so dont get wrapped up thinking about that. An upgraded street disc and pressure plate is usually good for lightly modified setups. I'm edging on the decision between cost effective but really unstreetable single disc race clutch or an expensive but nice to drive twin disk at roughly 400 ft lbs of torque. If you get there, you might have to make that decision, too.That should about cover the minimum for turboing a 6 port.
Next is optional or situational. You're going to be making more power, and you may want to look into better cooling. Oil cooling is pretty important, though the stock cooler is substantial on it's own. I would see about an aluminum radiator first before thinking about dual oil coolers or something. A good temperature gauge will give you a better idea of the heat situation, since our stock gauges are near useless.
A lot of guys say the NA drivetrain can take a lot of abuse. I believe the anecdotes, but at its core, it's all pretty much miata spec parts. You can either keep replacing things as they break or spec up to the T2 drivetrain.
I haven't found a solid number when, but as the power goal creeps up, you'll be getting closer to needing to open the engine up for modification. To my knowledge, most every NA engine regardless of year will have the weak rear iron dowel pin landing. If this cracks, oil will shoot out of there and the lack of oil will trash the whole engine. You can either stud or pin the block. The least involved route is using the smaller 10mm studs, which do not require any machining at all. That's what I'm doing. Atkins and I think goopy sell enlargened tension bolt kits but I haven't looked into them much. The corner seal springs are recommended as being swapped for the FD style flat spring washer, since the thin wire springs FCs came with are usually dead by now. And personally, I would look at upgrading to the beefier T2/FD oil pump and running a shimmer FC or FD rear pressure regulator, though Aaron Cake says it isnt necessary. Porting is almost never necessary on turbo rotaries, but when the engine is already apart, it's much more accessible.
Your stock ignition system should be sufficient, but you'll probably want to upgrade if your goal is pretty significant. You'll be able to eek out a little more power and get better driveability. CDI systems are pretty common since our stock coils are beefy. If you're going standalone, LS coils are cheaper and arguably better.
That was a bit winded but I hope I covered all the bases.
My 6 port turbo build is a little out there, so I'm not sure how applicable it will be to you. S4 block, T62-1, shooting for 350-400WHP. With that goal in mind, I never bothered thinking about the stuff most 6 port turbo guys do, like NA or T2 ECU, piggyback or whatever. I'm jumping straight into a Megasquirt standalone. Not sure on MS2 or MS3X yet.
A 6 port turbo is a lot of forging your own way. Straight away, you need to decide on what your power goal is. Everything is decided by that. While you may be tempted to look more at how much effort each route is and decide based on that, you're ultimately going to be doing a ton of fabrication work, so it doesnt matter in the end. First things first since regardless of power goal, it's going to be insufficient: make sure fueling can catch up. Pump and injectors are necessary at a minimum. Size according to your power goal and turbo (bigger turbo can run less pressure for the same power goal, which demands less out of the fuel pump, but they're also slower to spool). That then necessitates some control strategy on the ECU side. Piggyback, rtek-type of chipped ecu, or standalone. A wideband O2 is pretty much a minimum to properly tune it.
You will either need to have a custom turbo manifold made or do some sort of spacer like with Aaron Cake's early build if you stick to the stock intake manifolds (check out his website, it's a required read for anyone building a 6 port turbo). You will also need custom charge piping, a throttle body inlet adapter, and air intake. This is a bit easier and more parts are available off the shelf if you convert to T2 intake manifolds. On the stock ECU, piggyback or not, you'll have to also deal with the MAF. Then is the intercooler of course, which is most easily done with an FMIC setup (being in new york, you shouldnt have heat management issues). You'll need a downpipe as well.
You're definitely going to need to chuck your air pump and ACV. There just isnt space for the stock system. Block off plates as appropriate, and while youre at it, may as well block off the EGR. For S5, air pump removal also means needing to convert the actuation of your auxiliary intake port sleeves and VDI to work electronically (RotaryRessurection has a writeup) or deleting. Consider if your state/county requires emissions testing/visual. If it's just sniffer, you can often get away with an electric air pump as substitute.
Depending on the turbo, you will at least need oil feed/drain and possibly water feed/drain. A common solution for oil feed is to install an oil filter sandwich, with the oil drain being a bit more tricky. Most take off the oil pan and weld a bung to that. I would rather tap the side of the front cover in a similar way to the T2 front cover, but if you're leaving the engine in the car, you dont want to disturb the front hub bolt to remove the front cover lest the thrust bearings fall down. You'd have to drop the pan anyways, then drill/tap on the engine, making sure to flush out the chips meticulously. Water feed and drain if you need it, you should just tap into the water pump housing and thermostat neck.
Another thing to look out for is the clutch. There's a strong possibility that it'll slip with the increased power. Look at other forum members' cars to see the numbers they're putting down and pay especial attention to the torque numbers. Match one closest to your build and then spec a clutch from that. The clutch only cares about torque, not power, so dont get wrapped up thinking about that. An upgraded street disc and pressure plate is usually good for lightly modified setups. I'm edging on the decision between cost effective but really unstreetable single disc race clutch or an expensive but nice to drive twin disk at roughly 400 ft lbs of torque. If you get there, you might have to make that decision, too.That should about cover the minimum for turboing a 6 port.
Next is optional or situational. You're going to be making more power, and you may want to look into better cooling. Oil cooling is pretty important, though the stock cooler is substantial on it's own. I would see about an aluminum radiator first before thinking about dual oil coolers or something. A good temperature gauge will give you a better idea of the heat situation, since our stock gauges are near useless.
A lot of guys say the NA drivetrain can take a lot of abuse. I believe the anecdotes, but at its core, it's all pretty much miata spec parts. You can either keep replacing things as they break or spec up to the T2 drivetrain.
I haven't found a solid number when, but as the power goal creeps up, you'll be getting closer to needing to open the engine up for modification. To my knowledge, most every NA engine regardless of year will have the weak rear iron dowel pin landing. If this cracks, oil will shoot out of there and the lack of oil will trash the whole engine. You can either stud or pin the block. The least involved route is using the smaller 10mm studs, which do not require any machining at all. That's what I'm doing. Atkins and I think goopy sell enlargened tension bolt kits but I haven't looked into them much. The corner seal springs are recommended as being swapped for the FD style flat spring washer, since the thin wire springs FCs came with are usually dead by now. And personally, I would look at upgrading to the beefier T2/FD oil pump and running a shimmer FC or FD rear pressure regulator, though Aaron Cake says it isnt necessary. Porting is almost never necessary on turbo rotaries, but when the engine is already apart, it's much more accessible.
Your stock ignition system should be sufficient, but you'll probably want to upgrade if your goal is pretty significant. You'll be able to eek out a little more power and get better driveability. CDI systems are pretty common since our stock coils are beefy. If you're going standalone, LS coils are cheaper and arguably better.
That was a bit winded but I hope I covered all the bases.
10-22-18, 10:13 PM
#6
This was all very useful. I think I am going to port-match the turboii LIM and use the turboii front cover. can it be run on the stock ECU? I will definitely be upgrading to a standalone at some point but im not sure where my money will stand after the turbo kit and possible coolant seal job.
10-29-18, 09:26 AM
#7
So I got home and when I turned the engine over by hand I could hear sloshing coming from the ports, not good. So I opened up the motor and got to work. sure enough, the rear coolant seal was broken in multiple places along with the iron. I found a guy near me selling s5 middle and rear irons. so my question is, will his s5 irons bolt right up to my s4? Both engines are na.
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