Relocating Battery...need the wiring guru's
06-14-05, 07:11 PM
#1
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Relocating Battery...need the wiring guru's
88 TII. I am relocating my battery to the passenger side storage bin. I am using the battery relocation kit from Summit. I have a few questions:
1) Best ground?
Positive wire (4ga) goes to starter. The smaller wire (12 or 10 ga i think) goes through the 80A main fuse to the alternator and the ignition switch.
2) Where is the wire for the ignition switch? Is it on the driver side engine harness or on the chassis harness? (Both engine harnesses are out of the car at the moment, but chassis harness is in car.) What color/size is the wire?
3) This wire branches off between the 80A main fuse and the alternator, correct?
1) Best ground?
Positive wire (4ga) goes to starter. The smaller wire (12 or 10 ga i think) goes through the 80A main fuse to the alternator and the ignition switch.
2) Where is the wire for the ignition switch? Is it on the driver side engine harness or on the chassis harness? (Both engine harnesses are out of the car at the moment, but chassis harness is in car.) What color/size is the wire?
3) This wire branches off between the 80A main fuse and the alternator, correct?
06-14-05, 07:18 PM
#2
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Isn't there a writeup on this somewhere?
Best ground for the main feed would be the same as the OEM ground (near the starter). My opinion...
Ignition feed wire is black (S4's, anyway).
Have no idea where all the splices are for the positive branches, never had to dig into mine. If all else fails, look at the FSM wiring schematics and go from there, trying to duplicate the OEM runs...
Best ground for the main feed would be the same as the OEM ground (near the starter). My opinion...
Ignition feed wire is black (S4's, anyway).
Have no idea where all the splices are for the positive branches, never had to dig into mine. If all else fails, look at the FSM wiring schematics and go from there, trying to duplicate the OEM runs...
06-14-05, 07:24 PM
#3
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your easiest way in this situation is just take your to engine bay terminals for the battery, for the positive run large guage wire to where you want it, and for negative you should have a ground block, and ground wires going to the motor, bell housing, body etc...
06-14-05, 07:38 PM
#5
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ALSO...do I need to ground out the engine harness or anything to the battery ground or do i just put it to the bell housing ground and forget about it?
06-14-05, 10:22 PM
#6
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I'm not entirely following the question, but if you're asking about the rear rotor housing ground, just leave it as is. The bonding jumper between the tranny and firewall can also stay as is, provided the contacts are in good shape.
The whole car's the ground, basically, so the only thing you need to concern yourself with is placing the "main" ground near the component that's going to use the most current- the starter. Another reason the main ground should terminate somewhere on the engine is because that's where the alt is.
If you don't follow this advice, you'll have high amp currents flowing through the structure of the car, and the bonding jumper on the engine.
The positive cable needs to be as close to the alt as possible also, although that's not very feasible with the battery in the right bin. Just use a fairly large cable for the batt-alt run to reduce the effects of voltage drop...
Long story short- try to use the OEM locations as much as possible, especially the grounds...
The whole car's the ground, basically, so the only thing you need to concern yourself with is placing the "main" ground near the component that's going to use the most current- the starter. Another reason the main ground should terminate somewhere on the engine is because that's where the alt is.
If you don't follow this advice, you'll have high amp currents flowing through the structure of the car, and the bonding jumper on the engine.
The positive cable needs to be as close to the alt as possible also, although that's not very feasible with the battery in the right bin. Just use a fairly large cable for the batt-alt run to reduce the effects of voltage drop...
Long story short- try to use the OEM locations as much as possible, especially the grounds...
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06-14-05, 10:39 PM
#8
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...Not to mention the battery may shift unexpectedly and make you hit a wall due to the center of gravity shift...
Just kidding...Trying to spool ya up, Rat, the forum's been quiet today
Just kidding...Trying to spool ya up, Rat, the forum's been quiet today
Last edited by WAYNE88N/A; 06-14-05 at 10:54 PM.
06-14-05, 11:19 PM
#11
Haven't we ALL heard this
Just thinking about wire length.
And it is still a better situation since it is not hanging infront of the front axle.
Besides, how many folks actually corner weight their car to know the difference?
And it is still a better situation since it is not hanging infront of the front axle.
Besides, how many folks actually corner weight their car to know the difference?
06-14-05, 11:57 PM
#14
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I'm curious.... Why would you spend as much as 200 bux to buy a battery relocating kit, when you can just as easily pull the battery, and the mounting bracket, and relocate the entire kit 'n cabootle to the rear-end; running new AC Delco cables, as well?
Yes, the easiest way to run the wiring is body ground everything up front, body ground the relocated battery, and then run wiring extension fron engine bay to the rear end... Easiest isn't always the best.
Personnal experience (I've done a few of these), says this:
Basically, a ground's a ground. Bear in mind, GROUND does not mean NEGATIVE. If there's any doubt, dual-run the engine bay wiring to the rear-end, straight to the battery, as it was.
Checking the wiring itself, and run whatever's going to the NEG side, runit there. Whatever's GROUNDED, ground it to the standard tail-end ground (like where the fuel pump grounds). Grounding to the rear-end isn't really a good idea. Though it's got fluid in it, it still generates some static, and may offset your voltage.
Just don't start talking about installing a new grounding system.
Ant
Yes, the easiest way to run the wiring is body ground everything up front, body ground the relocated battery, and then run wiring extension fron engine bay to the rear end... Easiest isn't always the best.
Personnal experience (I've done a few of these), says this:
Basically, a ground's a ground. Bear in mind, GROUND does not mean NEGATIVE. If there's any doubt, dual-run the engine bay wiring to the rear-end, straight to the battery, as it was.
Checking the wiring itself, and run whatever's going to the NEG side, runit there. Whatever's GROUNDED, ground it to the standard tail-end ground (like where the fuel pump grounds). Grounding to the rear-end isn't really a good idea. Though it's got fluid in it, it still generates some static, and may offset your voltage.
Just don't start talking about installing a new grounding system.
Ant
Last edited by TrboSpdAnt; 06-15-05 at 12:23 AM.
06-15-05, 12:25 AM
#15
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Originally Posted by TrboSpdAnt
I'm curious.... Why would you spend as much as 200 bux to buy a battery relocating kit, when you can just as easily pull the battery, and the mounting bracket, and relocate the entire kit 'n cabootle to the rear-end; running new AC Delco cables, as well?
The easiest way to run the wiring is body ground everything up front, body ground the relocated battery, and then run wiring extension fron engine bay to the rear end.
Personnal experience (I've done a few of these), says this:
Basically, a ground's a ground. Bear in mind, GROUND does not mean NEGATIVE. If there's any doubt, dual-run the engine bay wiring to the rear-end, straight to the battery, as it was.
Checking the wiring itself, and run whatever's going to the NEG side, runit there. Whatever's GROUNDED, ground it to the standard tail-end ground (like where the fuel pump grounds). Grounding to the rear-end isn't really a good idea. Though it's got fluid in it, it still generates some static, and may offset your voltage.
Just don't start talking about installing a new grounding system.
Ant
The easiest way to run the wiring is body ground everything up front, body ground the relocated battery, and then run wiring extension fron engine bay to the rear end.
Personnal experience (I've done a few of these), says this:
Basically, a ground's a ground. Bear in mind, GROUND does not mean NEGATIVE. If there's any doubt, dual-run the engine bay wiring to the rear-end, straight to the battery, as it was.
Checking the wiring itself, and run whatever's going to the NEG side, runit there. Whatever's GROUNDED, ground it to the standard tail-end ground (like where the fuel pump grounds). Grounding to the rear-end isn't really a good idea. Though it's got fluid in it, it still generates some static, and may offset your voltage.
Just don't start talking about installing a new grounding system.
Ant
And when you're talking about the 100 amps used by the starter at kick-in, a little bit of resistance goes a long way to effectively drop the voltage. The longer the wiring run to the starter, whether positive or ground, the less voltage the starter has to work with...Same with the alt (which is the "battery" when the car's running, remember)...
A ground's a ground, yes, on a very well bonded structure. Our cars are not very well bonded. Want proof? Go get a meter and read from the furthest forward metal point on the car to the furthest back point. On a well bonded structure, you should get less than 1 milli-ohm (aircraft have to meet this criteria from their nose cones to the elevators on the tail for lightning strike protection). What do you get???
06-15-05, 12:34 AM
#16
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If you click the GTU link in my sig. There was alot of contraversy about my relocation "thow it was unfinished pics" I still got hell. But alot of good came out of it from Aarom Cake and another member sharing more proper techniques. I would sugest checking it out none the less.
06-15-05, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by J-Rat
This is why I run a Hawker Genesis.
All the benefits of a relocated battery, none of the freakin hassles.
All the benefits of a relocated battery, none of the freakin hassles.
My room mate is running a rather small battery, and makes a lot of room and less hassle compared to a battery relocated elsewhere. But he seems to not have very many chances at starting it, if he leaves his lights on for more than 10 minutes, he's push starting to get home.
How does this battery compare?
-Justin
06-15-05, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
12 volts is crap for electrical potential, so every extra foot of wiring makes a BIG difference in the total resistance of a circuit.
And when you're talking about the 100 amps used by the starter at kick-in, a little bit of resistance goes a long way to effectively drop the voltage. The longer the wiring run to the starter, whether positive or ground, the less voltage the starter has to work with...Same with the alt (which is the "battery" when the car's running, remember)...
A ground's a ground, yes, on a very well bonded structure. Our cars are not very well bonded. Want proof? Go get a meter and read from the furthest forward metal point on the car to the furthest back point. On a well bonded structure, you should get less than 1 milli-ohm (aircraft have to meet this criteria from their nose cones to the elevators on the tail for lightning strike protection). What do you get???
And when you're talking about the 100 amps used by the starter at kick-in, a little bit of resistance goes a long way to effectively drop the voltage. The longer the wiring run to the starter, whether positive or ground, the less voltage the starter has to work with...Same with the alt (which is the "battery" when the car's running, remember)...
A ground's a ground, yes, on a very well bonded structure. Our cars are not very well bonded. Want proof? Go get a meter and read from the furthest forward metal point on the car to the furthest back point. On a well bonded structure, you should get less than 1 milli-ohm (aircraft have to meet this criteria from their nose cones to the elevators on the tail for lightning strike protection). What do you get???
If a battery has more CRANKING Amps and Volts, then it should make up for it. Not to mention, like I said, my experience -up to now - has been with Hondas and Acuras. Their system of grounding varys a little. Most of them were also between '92 and '03.
I can definately see what you're saying. If you have 4 extra feet of wiring, at 2Ω a foot, then yeah, that extra 8Ωs of resistance will play a part in the starting of the car. But not so much in running it.
As you said, the Alternator's the "battery" while the car's running.
I wasn't taking in to accomodation of the amount of resistance in the body.
My bad.
Ant
06-15-05, 12:15 PM
#20
What I did is remove all the old power wiring:
- battery to starter
- battery to fuse box
- fuse box to alternator
- main ground on driver shock tower
- main ground on rear iron underneath oil filter pedestal.
Then I ran:
-0awg +12v from battery (in bin) thru 250 amp fuse to distribution block in engine bay
-0awg ground from battery to chassis inside bin.
-0awg to starter
-4awg to fusebox
-4awg from fuse box to alternator
-4awg ground from rear iron to firewall near where the fuel filter used to be.
- battery to starter
- battery to fuse box
- fuse box to alternator
- main ground on driver shock tower
- main ground on rear iron underneath oil filter pedestal.
Then I ran:
-0awg +12v from battery (in bin) thru 250 amp fuse to distribution block in engine bay
-0awg ground from battery to chassis inside bin.
-0awg to starter
-4awg to fusebox
-4awg from fuse box to alternator
-4awg ground from rear iron to firewall near where the fuel filter used to be.
06-15-05, 02:48 PM
#21
Originally Posted by Mx6-Rx7 Addict
Which model (size) did you use, and where did you mount it?
My room mate is running a rather small battery, and makes a lot of room and less hassle compared to a battery relocated elsewhere. But he seems to not have very many chances at starting it, if he leaves his lights on for more than 10 minutes, he's push starting to get home.
How does this battery compare?
-Justin
My room mate is running a rather small battery, and makes a lot of room and less hassle compared to a battery relocated elsewhere. But he seems to not have very many chances at starting it, if he leaves his lights on for more than 10 minutes, he's push starting to get home.
How does this battery compare?
-Justin
And it seems to be just fine, but with any small battery, it doesnt come with a whole lot of reserve capacity. And mine is still installed in the stock location.
06-15-05, 07:02 PM
#22
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Originally Posted by eViLRotor
What I did is remove all the old power wiring:
- battery to starter
- battery to fuse box
- fuse box to alternator
- main ground on driver shock tower
- main ground on rear iron underneath oil filter pedestal.
Then I ran:
-0awg +12v from battery (in bin) thru 250 amp fuse to distribution block in engine bay
-0awg ground from battery to chassis inside bin.
-0awg to starter
-4awg to fusebox
-4awg from fuse box to alternator
-4awg ground from rear iron to firewall near where the fuel filter used to be.
- battery to starter
- battery to fuse box
- fuse box to alternator
- main ground on driver shock tower
- main ground on rear iron underneath oil filter pedestal.
Then I ran:
-0awg +12v from battery (in bin) thru 250 amp fuse to distribution block in engine bay
-0awg ground from battery to chassis inside bin.
-0awg to starter
-4awg to fusebox
-4awg from fuse box to alternator
-4awg ground from rear iron to firewall near where the fuel filter used to be.
How did you hook up the positive run to the starter? From your "distribution box"? Or is that 0 gauge wire listed third down the positive run?
06-16-05, 06:23 AM
#23
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How does power get to the ignition switch? In the wiring diagram that i have it shows that the wire from the 80A main fuse to the alternator branches off and goes to the ignition switch. Can someone clear this up for me?
06-16-05, 10:10 AM
#24
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
Lot of extra wiring weight, but I guess it works, eh?
It works for sure, the starter cranks like crazy
Originally Posted by WAYNE88N/A
How did you hook up the positive run to the starter? From your "distribution box"? Or is that 0 gauge wire listed third down the positive run?
Last edited by eViLRotor; 06-16-05 at 10:13 AM.
