gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

ok, i'm looking to get rid of all the crap on my TII other then what it needs to run. ive been searching and have found some useful threads on removing the rats nest, however the thermo wax issue is not so clear to me.

first i dont know what it does, if some on could explain to me what it does then maybe i can understand the thermo wax threads and the tech artical on RR.

thankyou, i will prolly have other questions if i learn what the thermo wax does.

freemanrx7

I think the thermowax helps the car idle when cold. Anyways if I give a wrong answer someone will chime in and tell me I'm wrong.

I kept mine.

RotaryRocket88

iTrader: (7)

The thermowax holds the throttle plates open a bit more than normal, so when the car is cold, it will idle around 1300 RPM. Once warm, the wax softens, and lets the fast idle cam rotate the throttle plates to the set stopping point. This is when the car idles at 750 RPM or whatever you set it to.

If you remove the thermowax, make sure to take off the fast idle cam as well, since it could hold the throttle open. It will be easy to spot, since it is the only spring loaded piece under the wax.

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

i'll try and get some pictures, i dont understand so much about getting rid of the thermo wax and the rats nest, but if it is exess stuff i want it gone, so i'll take some pictures and hopfuly some one will walk me through it.

Asterisk

iTrader: (3)

dude, I'm in the same boat. Could you please help me with some links for the rats nest? I suck at searching, and can almost never find stuff I need. I always find a ton of OTHER important crap, just never what I need at the exact moment,

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

if you advance search "rats nest" in the titles only and in the second gen only you will find somthing. i found one thread that had a link to RR tech artical, only problem is that the pictures are so small its hard for me to see what hes talking about.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

You can take off the thermowax, but it will just make your car idle worse when cold. You might have to keep your foot on the gas for a while depending how you have everything adjusted. I had mine off and I put it back on, it was irritating not having it and all it did was save me two coolant hoses.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

The thermowax expands as the engine warms up. This forces the cam that it moves to move away from a roller attached to the throttle plates, and lets them close. Also at the back of the throttle body, you'll find a water valve that is part of the system which controls the number 1 secondary throttle plates. Some people remove all that stuff, but I would advise against it.

The rats nest and thermowax (and other parts) are there for driveability and emmissions. Virtually little to no gains in power keeping them or taking them off. As far as simplifying and removing stuff that is not needed (and that's relative), keep in mind the rats nest is fairly hidden anyway.

I guess my point is there's not much justification in doing this, and a lot of people screw things up when doing it. Kind of like the removal of the BAC valve. Then they end up with a car that is less practical and (in some cases) runs like a bag of ****.

I know this is not what you want to hear, but just pointing out a position held by some well respected members here.

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

i understand why the rats nest is there, but i would like to brake my car down to be a simple as posible so i can tailor it more to my tastes (and make it easyer to work on). i've already gotten rid of most of the emissions equiptment, air pump (is now a lawn tractor supercharger ), AC, and Cruise control. i like being in control rather then having automated things control it for me.

This car is also not a daily and is only a summer car for me, so the cold idle is somthing i can/dont mind dealing with, besides, the cold idle issue could also be a incorectly adjusted TB after the thremo wax was removed.

freemanrx7

You gain nothing from removing the thermowax. Just keep it for ease of cold starts. Plus it's not really in the way. The rest of the stuff can go bye bye. Also there is a vac line for the twinscroll setup.

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

what about removing all those cylinoids and crap from the right side of the engine (will get pic), that can be removed with the rats nest right?

I mostly want to get rid of the thermowax because that water line on the bottom of the TB has pissed me off more than once.

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

ok, i'm posing some pics of the rats nest

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../ratsnest3.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../ratsnest1.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y18.../ratsnest2.jpg

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

ok, i found a vacuume routing picture/diagram for running only what is nessisary.

https://www.rx7club.com/attachment.ph...hmentid=230775

Were is the best place to get a block off plate set?

arghx

iTrader: (3)

http://www.2751engineering.com/2751parts.html

FRFC3S

iTrader: (24)

Seriously think about this before you do it.

What are your plans for the car?
Could it go back to being my daily driver?
I believe HAILERS had a way of wiring the secondary throttle plates open so you can feel how it feels to do the TB mod without permanently destroying your TB.

On the plus side, you ditch a lot of fail points and vacuum leaks. Is it worth it to sacrifice cold starts and idle? Cold start does not necessarily mean it's cold out, it may have trouble idling after being shut off for a long period of time (>6 hours).

hillbilly81

ROTARY RESURRECTION! (be sure to say "thanks kevin!")
http://www.rotaryresurrection.com/2n...s_removal.html

worked great for me but if I were to do it again I'd leave the thermowax.

truth be told, I only did the rats nest removal to clean up the engine bay and noticed absolutely NO gains in power. (and its gonna make your car smell a bit like exhaust)

its not the hardest job by any means but pfsantos is right, there is a lot of room for error.

hillbilly81

ps

I made my own blank off plates from alluminum, if you dont plan on doing that then you're gonna need to order some in advance

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Been there done that. I kept my BAC & eliminated the rest. There is a small issue of immediate starting & idleing. I have an s4 NA so I'm somewhat different. I live in florida so I have no emissions or cold start issues either. I followed the Rotary Resurrection write-ups and found them helpful. I would recommend keeping your bac but removing the coolant lines to it. The thermowax and fast idle stuff can be ditched. I left the fast idle cam on my throttlebody because the screws wouldn't come out. It didn't seem to interfere with anything else. Vacuum lines are complex and will require some mental olympics.

Ramses666

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

The main reason why i want to remove the rats nest is because i have been plauged with vaccume leaks ever sence the first time i took the UIM off. So that is the main reason. i also am trying to clean the engine bay up and make it look less clutterd. I really just threw the thermowax in there because i didnt know what it did, and that water line on the botton of the TB is my arche Enemy.

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

will the thermowax & BAC still work w/o the water lines hooked up (i have no PS, AC, or anything that puts a strain on the engine.)

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

according to the scematic a few posts above, the only cylnoid i need to keep is the one conected to the one-way valve? (works part of the twin scroll on the turbo, correct??)

arghx

iTrader: (3)

I have everything removed on my engine (BAC, solenoid rack, etc) except the thermowax. Get a brand new OEM coolant hose for the rear iron, run it to the TB. Then get some heater hose and route it to the waterpump or whatever. Block everything else off.

The thermowax needs that coolant hose... it's a pain to install at first but there is a trick to it. Get it on to the rear iron with a screw clamp securely (clamp tightened). Then as you are lowering the intake manifold on to the studs (but not fully flat on the studs, you need to have the UIM at an angle) slide the hose on to the TB nipple. Use some lubricant on it so it slides easily, and very carefully position a screw clamp on the TB side of the hose so that you can access it with a 1/4 " ratchet and socket to tighten. Those OEM spring clamps are impossible for this hose in my experience.

IMO it's worth keeping. It's annoying to start the car and worry about it cutting off on you for the first 5-10 minutes. It is possible to have no thermowax and just adjust the throttle stop screw high enough that it would probably never stall when cold, but then your warm idle might be relatively high. I've never tried it though.

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

it says you have a TO4S setup in your sig, did you do the BNR upgrade or go with a new manifold? the stocker has like a "wannabe" twinscroll actuator that needs to operate to keep turbo lag to a minimum.

Last year i had the UIM off because i had a water leak out of the hose that conects to the TB, i bought a Mazdatrix (mazda dealer) replacement for the hose and it still doesnt want to go on all the way.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

You have to get the hose on there just right... it can be frustrating, you will have to adjust how far it goes on the coolant nipples. I got my TB hose from Mazdatrix as well.

I am using the HKS cast manifold. It's not great for spool or boost control, but it's cheap and reliable. I am hoping to go for GT35R and stainless divided manifold some day when I have the money.

gear_grinder

iTrader: (4)

yeah, i still have a stock S4 turbo and manifold system. The manifold has a werid like "second wastegate" built into it. and from what i hear if this isnt actuating the turbolag is huge.