Questions about hybrid rebuild
12-03-03, 11:01 AM
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Questions about hybrid rebuild
I am saving for an engine rebuild. I have an s4 n/a core that i will be sending off. When I get it back I'm going to turbo it w/ stock turbo manifold, turbo, intake etc... My plan is to run low boost w/ no intercooler to start and then upgrade fuel and intercool it and push a little more boost eventually.
Any thoughts about potential problems, suggestions, etc... would be greatly appreciated. I like to know EXACTLY what I'm getting into before I drop $$ on it to cut down on the troubleshooting b/c time is always against me.
Some things I have already thought about are turbo 550cc injectors, APEX-i S-AFC, turbo timer and boost gauge.
Also, how much boost do you think it would be SAFE to run w/o an intercooler on a freshly rebuilt n/a motor?
If you want to help give to the "Chimp's rebuild fund", go to the 2nd generation parts for sale thread and see if anything interests you!!
Any thoughts about potential problems, suggestions, etc... would be greatly appreciated. I like to know EXACTLY what I'm getting into before I drop $$ on it to cut down on the troubleshooting b/c time is always against me.
Some things I have already thought about are turbo 550cc injectors, APEX-i S-AFC, turbo timer and boost gauge.
Also, how much boost do you think it would be SAFE to run w/o an intercooler on a freshly rebuilt n/a motor?
If you want to help give to the "Chimp's rebuild fund", go to the 2nd generation parts for sale thread and see if anything interests you!!
12-03-03, 11:18 AM
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No Intercooler - WHY?
If its a money thing your attacking the problem from the wrong direction. Lack of money should not force you to take shortcuts that just won't payoff.
If its a money thing your attacking the problem from the wrong direction. Lack of money should not force you to take shortcuts that just won't payoff.
12-03-03, 11:27 AM
#4
Banned. I got OWNED!!!
A few things.
You won't want to run a stock turbo intake on an NA block, because of the 6 port/4 port difference...the intake ports will be far from lining up properly, and even if you *make* it work, you'll lose quite a bit of power because of it.
You want to run a stock turbo on an NA motor. FIrst off, we all know how the wastegates suck on the stock turbos, even when ported, and they want to boost too much. Turbo II engines are low compression (8.5:1) which means they move X amount of air per rotation..your NA engine is 9.4:1 high compression, which means by definition it will move MORE air pre rotation...since turbos are driven by exhaust air, it stands to reason that a hicomp motor will drive a turbo more than a locomp one would. I can tell you from currrent experience that this is the case, I run hicomp on my convertible with a turbo swap.The turbo is spooling driving at 80mph on the interstate, which destroys gas mileage down to about 14mpg. SO how then, do you plan to run "low boost"? Keep your foot off it? That won't last long, bud.
More than that, you plan to run *un* intercooled??? YOu're just dying to waste money and a nice set of new apex seals aren't you? Look at it this way. Stock t2's run 6psi of boost, and require an intercooler. How many stock t2's do you see blown up? Plenty. They are low compression, have big injectors, a knock sensor, and an intercooler. And they still blow up in stock form. Now, you are wanting to raise compression more than 1 point, which will raise boost by definition, take away the intercooler, and feed it the same amount of fuel, or perhaps less (didnt see mention of that). Now honestly, what do you think is gonna happen here? IT isn't rocket science my friend.
Finally, there are physical fitment limitations to face. You have to tap and weld oil supply and drain lines, as well as pulling water supply and return lines from somewhere. IF you use an NA intake manifold (the only one that'll fit your block right) you'll have to custom make a spacer so the turbo will fit, this will cost at least $100. You'll have custom IC piping and the like (unless you didn't read a word I said above).
Bottom line, don't try it unless you know what youre doing. There are no good reasons to do it that way, when people like me offer na-->t2 conversion packages pretty darn cheap. www.rotaryresurrection.com/turboconversion.htm
I have rebuilt a couple of na-->turbo transplants (turbo'd na block) now...they usually last 1-4 months, no ****. I have seen it time after time. I think aaron cake is the only person that has made it last, and his is a combination of knowledge of what he is doing, common sense not to beat the hell out of it, and luck of the draw that his engine is fairly strong to begin with.
You won't want to run a stock turbo intake on an NA block, because of the 6 port/4 port difference...the intake ports will be far from lining up properly, and even if you *make* it work, you'll lose quite a bit of power because of it.
You want to run a stock turbo on an NA motor. FIrst off, we all know how the wastegates suck on the stock turbos, even when ported, and they want to boost too much. Turbo II engines are low compression (8.5:1) which means they move X amount of air per rotation..your NA engine is 9.4:1 high compression, which means by definition it will move MORE air pre rotation...since turbos are driven by exhaust air, it stands to reason that a hicomp motor will drive a turbo more than a locomp one would. I can tell you from currrent experience that this is the case, I run hicomp on my convertible with a turbo swap.The turbo is spooling driving at 80mph on the interstate, which destroys gas mileage down to about 14mpg. SO how then, do you plan to run "low boost"? Keep your foot off it? That won't last long, bud.
More than that, you plan to run *un* intercooled??? YOu're just dying to waste money and a nice set of new apex seals aren't you? Look at it this way. Stock t2's run 6psi of boost, and require an intercooler. How many stock t2's do you see blown up? Plenty. They are low compression, have big injectors, a knock sensor, and an intercooler. And they still blow up in stock form. Now, you are wanting to raise compression more than 1 point, which will raise boost by definition, take away the intercooler, and feed it the same amount of fuel, or perhaps less (didnt see mention of that). Now honestly, what do you think is gonna happen here? IT isn't rocket science my friend.
Finally, there are physical fitment limitations to face. You have to tap and weld oil supply and drain lines, as well as pulling water supply and return lines from somewhere. IF you use an NA intake manifold (the only one that'll fit your block right) you'll have to custom make a spacer so the turbo will fit, this will cost at least $100. You'll have custom IC piping and the like (unless you didn't read a word I said above).
Bottom line, don't try it unless you know what youre doing. There are no good reasons to do it that way, when people like me offer na-->t2 conversion packages pretty darn cheap. www.rotaryresurrection.com/turboconversion.htm
I have rebuilt a couple of na-->turbo transplants (turbo'd na block) now...they usually last 1-4 months, no ****. I have seen it time after time. I think aaron cake is the only person that has made it last, and his is a combination of knowledge of what he is doing, common sense not to beat the hell out of it, and luck of the draw that his engine is fairly strong to begin with.
12-04-03, 08:43 AM
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Wow, hypntyz7.... thank you. Many things I did not consider a problem were brought up in your post. Now that I think about it though, the whole compression/fuel/boost equation does make sense. Hmmm.... well I have a lot of things to think about. I still want to try and do something to that effect because I need a turbo.... bad. That is what I meant by knowing what I'm getting into though, so thank you.
12-04-03, 02:07 PM
#6
Do a TII conversion.
It will cost more but you will have an engine built for boost.
The hybnrid will most likely blow because you are going to run w/o intercooler so the intake temps are going to be higher making you get closer to the detonation area.
From what I understand treat 5psi on a high comp engine like 10psi in a low comp engine. You'll have to give it alot of fuel and keep that intake temp low or you'll be rebuilding your rebuild.
It will cost more but you will have an engine built for boost.
The hybnrid will most likely blow because you are going to run w/o intercooler so the intake temps are going to be higher making you get closer to the detonation area.
From what I understand treat 5psi on a high comp engine like 10psi in a low comp engine. You'll have to give it alot of fuel and keep that intake temp low or you'll be rebuilding your rebuild.
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