Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

So I got a video of me doing a pull in 3rd to about 5-6 grand and I am wondering if the rapid change in a/f is normal at full throttle. I have added grounds and ran the wideband straight off the battery.

http://upload.streetfire.net/video/N...-in_199183.htm

kustomizingkid

iTrader: (2)

If... and please read the IF your wideband is reading accurately you're not pulling a consistent air/fuel mixture at all....

It shouldn't jump around like that...

Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input I am just wondering what could be causing it. I tested my fuel pump voltage at the plug near the back and it stays around 13v all the time. I have regrounded the ecu. Injectors were cleaned 8 months ago. Boost sensor has been regrounded and the pill is in the line. I just wonder if the pulsation dampener could cause this if it was missing?

Anybody else ever experience this?

HAILERS

I don't know what your concern is. But then again we can't see the rpms at the same time we're seeing the afr.

What concerns you? If one stomps the pedal at 3000 rpm the afr might drop down into the 13's and a touch of 12 afr, and then at one point we see a 14??? which I assume is happening around 3300 rpm ,then it goes back into the 13's afr. On the whole kinda normal and not enough to cause me to become a worry wart.

Then again, we can't see the rpms at the same time as afr. If its a stock non turbo, I'd expect the afr to get even richer when you hit 5000 rpms then get a touch leaner as you get into the 6-7 grand.

Got tired of watching it the second time around because of the camera jerking around and no rpm to look at.

Who made the wideband?

Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

Sorry for the jerkyness. I was concered with the rapid change near about 5-6 grand were I get a/f numbers that change from 11-13 on a non turbo full throttle run. I am trying to rig up a better way to record a run with my safc and Aem wideband. I am just trying to see if anyone gets a pretty constant a/f on an n/a motor because from what I have watched it seems like it shouldn't be changing like it is.

arghx

iTrader: (3)

it's an N/A. Does it stutter or hesitate? If it doesn't, don't worry about it. back in the day on my 88 GTU i just had an SAFC and the CAS advanced several degrees. I ran AFR's in the 13's on 87 octane, made 172rwhp, and it never gave me any trouble unless I flooded it out and the plugs got dirty.

Osirus9

iTrader: (10)

My AEM wideband does the same thing. I think the AFR just jumps around like that normally...

HAILERS

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It's been some time since I messed with my n/a, but like I mentioned above, I remember the afr getting rich (11afr) around 5000-5200 rpm and then getting a bit leaner later around 6000 rpm. I consider the 11afr too darn rich for a non turbo and leaned it out there. It's the AFM this is causing that imho. Not a bad afm, just the way the thing works imho. P.S. I'm no great tuner, just observations on a series four non turbo.

It's a shame. Cris Lugwig had some graphs of a series five in stock config on this site https://www.rx7club.com/rtek-forum-168/thumbs-up-s5-na-2-0-a-668832/

Unfortunatly the jpgs are gone. If memory serves, it showed that fat spot around 5000 rpm on a stock ECU. Too bad.

Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

Alright so I made it so you can see the rpms and a/f at the same time.
This is done on the stock map with nothing messed with on the safc II. I just figured it would be richer.

<a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Fc-na-wideband-run-one_200816.htm"><img src="http://px2.sfstatic.com/handlers/GetSizedVideoThumb.ashx?id=200816&w=180"/><br>Fc n/a wideband run one stock map</a>

<a href="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Fc-na-wideband-run-2-map_200821.htm"><img src="http://px2.sfstatic.com/handlers/GetSizedVideoThumb.ashx?id=200821&w=180"/><br>Fc n/a wideband run 2 stock map</a>

Boosted11

iTrader: (11)

Wow, that's quite the jumpy afr's you got there. Definetly not normal, as far as I know. With my t2, the afr's are pretty smooth, then again I have a plx wideband. Where did you mount the bung? End of the downpipe, is where you want it. Mostly deals with the life span of the sensor but can be taken into consideration. As stated above, the afr's are getting very rich as the rpms increase.

Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

well i have the sensor in the stock location. Another thing i have noticed tonight is when jumpering the full pump connector and looking at the voltage off the fuel pump its at 10.40ish. I will check it running tomorrow.

HAILERS

You start out somewhere around 2600 rpm and must be sort of crusing. The TPS reads in the 75* area and the AFR are swapping around the 14.7 to 15.2 afr which seems as normal as can be.

But then you nail the throttle and something a little strange happens. Your TPS goes to zero and maybe I see a 5% TPS for a moment AND the afr gauge goes blank. I can't account for the blank afr. But the TPS seems it might have a anomaly with it going from 77% to zero for a moment as you go full throttle.

But that seems to be a glitch and it recovers right away. If memory serves the afr are in the 13.5 afr at around 3600 rpm, sort of normal. Then they turn to 14? when you cross the 3750 rpms and vary rapidly in the 13's til you get to about 4000 rpm when they turn to high 12's or 13 afr. So you seem to have a bit of a secondary transition problem at 3800 rpm and it effects things til you get to around 4000 rpm.

Then you hit around 5000 rpm and the afr go into the 11afr momentarily. That I have seen on a stock afm. It's a rich area for whatever reason. It's not a gauge or tps type problem. It's just rich there and gets back into the 13's when you get to 5500 rpm. Normal for the stock afm.

HAILERS

I RAN OUT OF TIME IN MY POST ABOVE SO SOME OF THIS IS A REPEAT OF THE ABOVE.


You start out somewhere around 2600 rpm and must be sort of crusing. The TPS reads in the 75* area and the AFR are swapping around the 14.7 to 15.2 afr which seems as normal as can be even if the 02 sensor was not connected up.

But then you nail the throttle and something a little strange happens. Your TPS goes to zero and maybe I see a 5% TPS for a moment AND the afr gauge goes blank. I can't account for the blank afr. But the TPS seems it might have a anomaly with it going from 77% to zero for a moment as you go full throttle.

But that seems to be a glitch and it recovers right away. If memory serves the afr are in the 13.5 afr at around 3600 rpm, sort of normal. Then they turn to 14? when you cross the 3750 rpms and vary rapidly in the 13's til you get to about 4000 rpm when they turn to high 12's or 13 afr. So you seem to have a bit of a secondary transition problem at 3800 rpm and it effects things til you get to around 4000 rpm.

At 4072 they are in the 13.4.......4190 in the 13.0............4243 at 13.0............4352 at 12.9..........4500 at 12.7...........4600 at 12.8.............4736 at 11.4.........4925 at 13.2...........5100 at 12.0...........5500 at 12.8................5600 at 12.3.............5700 at 12.5afr.

So there is a rich spot in the stock afm that you see those 11.4 and 12.0 afr at. That is strictly the stock afm that is doing that. By the way, if you had a fuel pump problem, wouldn't those figures be LEAN instead of rich? Yes is my answer.

I can't account for the 11.4 afr at 4736 and then it going to 13.2 at 4925. I had to stop/go the video and maybe I wrote a figure down wrong?? Who knows.

But YOU can see the transiton problem around 3750 til it clears up around 3900 to 4000 rpm. Ain't no non turbo car going to blow it's top over that in my very humble opinion. I'd never worry about it. I'd see if I could fix that transition problem though.

Do you FEEL that transition when you get there?

And that TPS going to zero as you stomp the pedal is worrysome. It recovers pretty quick to 100%, but makes me wonder a bit.

I know this is going against the grain, but on a non turbo the stock location is just fine and dandy. That's where I've the wideband in my 86 non turbo. The TURBO car has it at the bottom of the downpipe. I don't think the non turbo needs it down there.

At one time I had a TechEdge and had the wideband sensor in the stock location FOREVER on the turbo. They used a more robust sensor than the dainty things used these days. Those sensors cost a arm and a leg compared to the dainty ones of today.

HAILERS

Look at the video several times. But get a piece of paper out, and go to resume but hit the pause right away. Then write down the afr and rpms. Do that several times to make a paper log of what your looking at.

Some of the afr swapping isn't serious. Your in the low 13's and then the reading goes to the high 12's. Not much of a real change at all. Normal.

Take a good look at that TPS figure around 3500 to 3800 rpm. Stop and go the video rapidly and you'll see what I mean.

I only looked at the second video.

Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the input. I barely feel any hesitation and the tps reading drops because i let of to shift then put throttle into it. I just thought everyone said that I should be running rich throughout the map especially with an open exhaust.

HAILERS

12s and low 13's are rich. To me at least.
I even see some quick 11's in that second run. I sure wish I'd have kept the logs shown on the RTEK forum of Cris's before and after afr readings on a series four. Their gone though.

Blackfc3srx7

iTrader: (1)

Ok, well I just thought that it was strange having 15-16 with 60-70 percent throttle on the safc then have 12-13 with 40 percent throttle. I guess its running pretty good without adjusting much except the higher rpms. A thread on here said on n/a's for light throttle you can lean it out to 16s and be ok.