sworley77

iTrader: (1)

I drove my car to work Friday with no problems in freezing conditions. It started fine and ran fine, even let it warm up longer than normal because it was so cold. When trying to leave work it wouldn't start, sounded like a weak battery. I was able to push start it to get it home. I drove it a little longer that night because my commute is really short and wanted to make sure it had time to charge the battery.

On Saturday I figured I needed a new battery or alternator so I took it to the local shop, started right up and everything tested fine. The alternator was a little low on output, but it was like that a year ago when I first replaced my battery. I checked my results, the two tests were identical for alternator. I chalked up Friday's no start to leaving something on by accident and thought nothing of it. Drove my girlfriend's car all weekend because it's nicer and then when I went to start it this morning it wouldn't start.

I attempted to jump it because there was no room for a push start. No dice. Unplugged the EGI fuse and tried it and smelled fuel so I know it was flooded. After doing the de-flood procedure while still having the jump on my battery a couple times it started rough but after it warmed up it idled and ran fine.

My question is this: what would be causing it to flood like this? Even taking in a short commute time, it doesn't add up to me. I let it warm up before driving it and let it cool down after a hard drive. I've heard revving it and shutting it off while it's still above 3k rpm's can help prevent carbon buildup, would it prevent flooding too?

SpikeDerailed

iTrader: (7)

The 3k shutdown is suppose to help prevent flooding, nothing to do with carbon buildup. Leaking injectors, bad coolant temp sensor for the ecu, and low compression(usually a hot start issue) are the commonly accepted causes of flooding.

sworley77

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I'll look into these issues. Any advice on how to check the injectors?

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

NO real way to test the flow rate without having the injectors removed and serviced.

lduley

iTrader: (1)

The only way i can think to check and see if they are leaking would be to take them apart, but leave the fuel rails and everything hooked up, and put a rag under the injectors, turn the key on and let the fuel system build pressure, than turn the key off and let it sit for a couple hours/overnight, if the rag gets wet, your injectors are leaking

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Definitely sounds like flooding and completely agree with the members above.

But I'm curious (since I had a bad battery on another car recently)...was the battery load tested? The cold is really good at separating the good batteries from the ones just squeaking by. Also, low voltage output would be something I'd be concerned with over the long term.

sworley77

iTrader: (1)

PFSANTOS: Oh yeah, it's definitely flooding. That I'm sure of but was just looking for reasons why it is flooding. I'm also concerned with low output, but being that it hasn't changed in the last year and I haven't experienced any other issues (apart from this one, which seems unrelated as of right now) I'm not too worried about the alternator. Load testing was completed at a local shop when they checked the starter and alternator as well.

IDULEY: Thanks, I much prefer this option to the expensive sounding test misterstyx recommended. Though, I suspect if there is a problem I'll be doing that in the long run anyway. This car is my DD so having it out of commission while the injectors are out to test would be crippling on my wallet for cab fare.

I haven't run the car in a couple days and luckily have been able to catch rides with co-workers and my girlfriend. I'm going out of town this weekend but will work on it on Sunday night when I return. Hoping for good news.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

The methods above are best, but here's another option. Not a cheap Band-Aid solution, but one nonetheless:

https://www.mazdatrix.com/c-bleed.htm

misterstyx69

iTrader: (142)

You have to pretty well disassemble the engine's upper manifold to get at the injectors anyways to Test them by Iduley's test method..otherwise how can you see if they are flowing or leaking??.
Simple Cleaning instead of replacemnet is a Very reasonable option instead of spending Money on NEW injectors as they rarely ever fail.
Cleaning them will bring them back to newly operational state and IF one is bad they will Tell you.
Get a hold of KEITH at Injector-Rehab - Fuel injector cleaning, flow testing, and complete blueprinting service. and tell him STYX sent ya.He can help you.
They will supply all brand new grommets instead of the hardened crap that you usually encounter whn you have them taken out.
Soft NEW seals instead of old used seals will prevent vacuum and fuel leaks.
Cleaning is about 30 bucks per injector.

and Ya.The battery should be inspected too,as it can pack up if the alternator was not doing it's job.
It would put stress on the battery and lessen its life dramatically.
This from a Guy who spent 400 on a alternator and got stranded on the Trans-Canada with a bad battery 10 minutes after replacing the Alt!
Bad alt fried the battery.

lduley

iTrader: (1)

Flowing no wouldn't be able to see, i was throwing out a cheap easy was to see if there were leaking with pressure behind them and jist sitting

Another option, buy a set of injectors from someone on here (usually can get all 4 for under $40) and send yours out, or the newish set out for testing/rebuild. That way, when they come back, all you gotta do is swap them, and your good to go

sworley77

iTrader: (1)

Ok, so I bought a set of injectors and started to replace them last night. I was told the new injectors were bench tested before shipping and I have every reason to believe they will work fine, at least until I can send my set out to have them cleaned. (Thanks for the connection, Styx.)

The problem I have now is that everything I read said that removing the UIM was all that was needed to be done to replace all four. After getting to what I believe are the secondary injectors, it looks like a much more ambitious project to replace the primaries.

I'll let you know that I am an amateur mechanic, learning as I go, but view myself as capable with proper instructions and figuring out small things on my own. Have I bit off more than I can chew with this project? What do I need to do to get to the primary injectors? It looks like disassembling the entire lower intake manifold is the next step. I do not want to disassemble anymore than I have to. Any advice is welcomed, even if I don't want to hear it. The car is my DD if I haven't mentioned that before and is (was) fully intact, meaning the engine is still in the car.

sworley77

iTrader: (1)

Ok- new problem!

I replaced the secondary injectors after finding a nice looking tear in one of them. I didn't do a thing to the primary's because I was having a hard time getting to them.

After putting it all back together the car would fire but would not idle. After messing around with it for a few nights I threw in the towel and had it towed to a local shop. The shop believes my MAF is bad because when they move the flaps in the airbox, they can get it to idle. This doesn't make sense to me because I didn't mess with that at all and the only problem the car had previously is that it would flood after sitting for 3-4 hours. They have checked for vacuum leaks and found none. I also had them double check the throttle cable and make sure it had slack (not too much). Is there anything else I should have them look at before replacing the MAF?

satch

iTrader: (1)

What does not idle mean? Have you set the TPS after messing w/the car?

sworley77

iTrader: (1)

No, I have not set the TPS. I am assuming the shop has not either.

Not idle means they have to manually open the MAF at the airbox to get the car to maintain an idle. They are able to drive it around the parking lot if they give it gas constantly but when they let off the gas, the car dies.

satch

iTrader: (1)

The secondary injectors are not used to start or idle the car so that shouldn't change things materially unless you did something to the car while you were fiddling with it. Sounds like a vacuum leak regardless of whether they tested for one or not.

sworley77

iTrader: (1)

I agree it is a vacuum leak, but the shop still thinks it is the MAF. I didn't even touch it and it worked fine before I replaced the injectors. Called the shop back and told them not to replace the MAF and now they agree that's not the problem but can't find out what is wrong with it.

Worth it to have it towed to the dealership and start over?

satch

iTrader: (1)

Doubtful the dealership will be able to figure it out since they probably don't work on these cars. You can test the AFM according to the FSM.

sworley77

iTrader: (1)

UPDATE: The car was towed to a dealership. $95 later and they found the throttle body gasket developed a crack and was the source of the vacuum leak. With no replacement parts they sealed it with some silicone and only charged me for the diagnostic hour. I'll be in the market for a new gasket but I'm so happy to have my car back and running.

As to the original issue, flooding, it appears that replacing the secondary injectors solved the issue.

satch

iTrader: (1)

Good for you. Now it's time to breath a sigh of relief.

zak rabbit

Congratulations! Thanks for reporting back, too. It's always nice to hear what fixed it.