FPrep2ndGenRX7

I know this has probably been posted but I couldn't find specifically what I needed to know.

The 2 philips head screws that hold the sleeves in the intake are stuck. Any suggestions on getting them out? I've already started stripping the heads out and will probably have to remove it by drilling and using an extracator type bit. I was just wondering if anyone else has had the same difficulty getting them out.

Thanks.

ZoomZoomZoom

Hello. You did not state if you had the intake off the engine or not but I wil try to help for either way.

First of all, it is much easier if you have the intake off the engine to work with but if not, try these suggestions:

1) Squirt the bolts with WD40 and let it set a while and try them.

2) Use a snub-nose phillips that fits the bolt as snug as possible, and then take a regular sized hammer and while trying to loosen the bolt, tap on the end of the screwdriver. This sometimes loosens the bolt enough to let it break free.

3) If the bolt is too stripped out then use a pair of needle-nose vise grips and try to loosen them up by gripping the edges of the bolt(there is not much to hold on to though)

4) If all else fails, you might try heating the outside area of the intake around the bolt and try it. HOWEVER!!! Be very careful if you get to this stage of trying to get the bolts loose.
I would highly recommend taking the intake off the car and do this procedure away from the car.

Mine were stuck when I tried to take them out but the hammer trick got them loose.
Hope this helps!

FPrep2ndGenRX7

The intake is still on the car. I was trying to avoid removing it to keep from damaging the intake gasket. I'll try what you suggested and hopefully it will work.

Thanks.

Silkworm

Wait, how are you going to get the sleeves out without removing the intake. Those screws you're removing will take the shaft out, but the sleeves will still be embedded in there.

Paul

FPrep2ndGenRX7

Silkworm - I've never read that you needed to remove the lower intake to get them out, but then again I've never removed them either. I guess thats why I ask the question. Thanks. If I have to remove the intake I'll probably just wire them open. This is my daily driver so its not a big deal to have them removed.

tesla042

It's real easy to take the lower manifold off.. And gaskets are pretty cheap. The screws were stuck on mine, and since I don't plan on putting them back on, I just used a grinder and cut them off.

-Tesla

Silkworm

Yep, you've gotta remove the lower intake, but it's really not that hard if you have the upper already removed. If you don't have the upper removed, then it's a lot more work

I agree, just wire them open. The sleeves really don't restrict airflow much at all.

PaulC

Sniper_X

As far as the screws go.....

Get a impact driver from home depot or Sears.

Smack the screws with the drive that has a PROPER philips tip!

Then get BOLTS to replace the screws.

Heres my story about the 6-port endeavor that I went through...

Look what I found in my engine!!! (Opinions please)

Bambam7

Ya, those screws were frozen on mine too.... and yes, you have to remove the lower intake to get the sleeves out. I just drilled the heads off of the screws, and when I removed the sleeves, I removed the shaft and plate as well, the just filled the open hole/tube in the manifold with JB weld. Worked like a charm, and if you have a few mods done to the engine to warrant the xtra flow, absolutly remove the sleeves over wiring them open. I gain noticiable top end when I did it, and didn't notice any loss in low end torque....

Suparslinc

Look, if this is something you think you will benefit from, then there are several BETTER ways to get the screws out that I happen to know of...

1) Take a short phillips and a hammer. Pound that sucker into the screw so it seats nice and tight. Now using all your jedi training force it out.

2) Use a flat-head screwdriver tangent to the side of the screw head and a hammer. You can pound on the screwdriver and turn the screw.

3) Use a pair of locking vice grips to grab hold of the screw head and turn. This always works but might damage the screws further

I've never tried the six port removal; but I gather it only benefits the highly-modded type engines. If your engine is internally stock you might want to leave it alone.

Sniper_X

I beleive that if removing the ports was good idea, then they wouldn't have put them in.

Too many people are taking shortcuts to power rather than fixing the myriad of little things that are wrong with these engines.

leave the ports alone... unless they are dirty or broken, then fix or replace them.

Now about the screw removal.....

Once again, the only right way to remove stuck screws that are REALLY STUCK (especially soft headed ones), is with a hand held impact driver and the proper screw tip.

The ideas of HITTING IT or clamping it with vice grips are, at best, a bad practice. Which leads me into a rant about the mindset of all too many RX-7 owners out there......

If you all have any hope of returning the car to better performance, for example, its "like-new" performance, (which was VERY impressive by the way - most of us have NO IDEA how powerful they were.), then there are some "best-practices" that should be followed.

1) Do away with the mindset that things like vice-grips and a hammer will solve your problem of not having the right (and ususally more expensive) tool.

2) stop removing parts in an effort to "fix" the power problem you have. If you drove one of these cars off the showroom floor, you would understand what they are truly capable of.

3) remember that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between those that continue to remove ports, bypass things, drill out, or block off stuff, (people that are not dedicated to "really fixing" whats "really wrong" with these engines.) and those that actually will diagnose, repair, replace, or rebuild, whatever they have to whenever they can just to get that "power punch" (like their car had when it was new).

4) those that want to "mod" a rotary engine need to get comfortable with the idea that they will have to do some complex and boring stuff to REALLY get "the next level" of STABLE performance. Anyone that wants to "bolt on" power, and then drive like hell, better know someone like I described above (that know how, and when to rebuild) because you and they are going to be talking really soon.

I have returned (3) 1991 non-turbo coupes back to bone stock, and currently have the "new car power" I spoke of. I cant beleive the difference in power! I did all this as just ONE STEP of many in my quest to "mod" the car for the next level of power. I am looking into supercharging them all really soon. But before I did that, I wanted new engines to make sure that the mods I would perform would "take" and be stable.

I am NOT looking for 400 RWHP, (i'd be happy with half that). I want that extra "kick" and thats all. Anything more, and I would go to a pro-shop and have a custom engine built, and replace the fuel computer, etc.

But that would be a different engine.
Not a 1991 non-turbo 13B anymore.

Just be careful people, or you'll be "modding" your cars to an early death. Theres enough bad drivers and other stuff out there already killing these cars without our "help".

Remember, you're already driving a semi-exotic vehicle just OWNING a running rotary.

Sniper_X
Always Tinkering

Silkworm

Sniper,

*some* of us actually are racing our cars, we've removed all of our smog equipment, and will be spending most of our time above 3000 RPM. I agree that a lot of people shouldn't be messing with this, but a guy racing an F-prepared RX-7 doesn't need the sleeves. So in the meantime, how about stepping off the soap box?

PaulC

Suparslinc

Sniper I've got to hand it to you. You have a knack for making even the most mundane topic controversial.

Look here Sniper, the techniques I described are basic mechanical stuff. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with using vice grips to remove the screws, if I can quote you didn't you recommend going out and buying new ones anyway?

And its a whole lot easier than using an impact gun which would probably just obliterate the soft metal of the screws.

I scroll through the posts--I see people have hacked the heads off, grinded them off. Well thats just stupid no offense anybody. If you don't know the way to get a simple screw out with the tools around your house, WITHOUT going out and buying a damn $500 impact gun and compressor, then maybe you dont' have any business tinkering in the first place.

And thats called a #2 driver. How do you get a impact gun in there anyways I dont' think theres room. Have you ever had to do this?

Joe

HAILERS

Oh boy! An argument. I'll grind or drill the head off any darn nut, bolt or screw that gets in my way if thats the easiest way to remove something. The screw, bolt etc shank will just spin out with your fingers due to no pressure holding it in place. Plenty more hardware at the store. Well...maybe I'm not that aggressive about it, but it gives me no heartburn to grind one off. I spin, twist and mutilate those IBM punch cards for a hobby. Just gotta be something other than this to argue about.

Sniper_X

I never wanted anyone to get an $500 air tool setup.

I was referring to an "Impact Driver" Its a screw driver that you hit the end of with a hammer and it changes the impact forces to rotation at the same moment that it is being driven into the screw.

I apologise for letting a bit of my "RX-7 manifesto" leak out there.

But I have seen alot of people that take shortcuts right off the bat, have ZERO luck bringing their mechanical projects to a close.

Whereas those that recognise and are willing to repair the "right way" seem to have a definate beginning and definate end to each project.

The "right way" can include a bit of "rigging", heck i make tools nearly every time i go to repair somthing.

I simply am tired of seeing people come into this forum, sight unseen, and when a newbie asks a question like, "How do i get more power out of my new rotary", a endless trail of replies begin to spew suggestions like "Remove the sleeves", take off this, bypass that.

And those that reccomend getting "a factory manual and a wrench" seem to be relatively ignored, thats all.

I'm not saying weather or not it happened in this thread, but theres a reason the engine was built the way it was, and its almost more important to understand that first, before you do anything else.

Almost like "walk before you run" kinda stuff......

Sniper_X
Always tinkering.... (and stirring the S**t.... )

FPrep2ndGenRX7

I never meant to start an argument. But since I did, I bet my Dad can beat up your Dad.

Sniper-X I do agree with you about a keeping the engine running good in stock condition. I do have plans for modifying the now removed sleeves. A machinist friend of mine is going to make a copy of the sleeves but leave enough material inside them to make porting useful. The final outcome will be similiar to Blakes(as seen on other threads) teflon insert and porting job on a 6-port plate. Obviously my ports will be smaller and possibly useless but I'll have fun doing it and I might even learn something in the process. My ultimate goal will be to build a mildly ported engine for my F-Prepared car. Like you said I'm learning to walk before I run.

Thanks to everyone for posting and making a simple question a reason to argue. You gotta love the forum.

Sniper_X

Your idea to modify the port sleeves is ingenious!

It never dawned on me to do this!

Hell, it even follows my (personal) rules of "the ZEN of mild Rotary modification".

"Modify nothing, but if you must, make it a replacement part or a modified stock part with as little alteration as possible, and a cheap, replaceable part."

Please keep me informed of this progress!

Wax on, Wax off.......


Sniper_X
Always tinkering

Suparslinc

This impact driver which you describe is basically my idea #1. I don't know if I have ever heard of this tool. Okay, that makes much more sense than an impact gun.
Look I agree with your rotary philosophy 100%; people are making bad choices on this forum because they don't understand that the car needs to run correctly in the first place. In addition, I often times see unsubstantiated claims repeated by others as if they were gospel. This forum has a realy credibility problem. But I don't agree with you calling the vice grips bad practice. And the other two techniques I gave are ways for people to develop good mechanical skills. In fact I've used this technique myself and recommended it to a couple of others, and all have met with good results. I meet so many people who are lousy mechanics it makes me sick; If you don't know how to turn a wrench, don't start this shadetree mod-job because you'll end up breaking something.
I like to think of those soft screws as a kind of "screening test" for people who want to mess with the actuators. If you cant get those screws out; then the cars telling you "leave me the hell alone!"

And no ones mentioned this yet, but if your removing the sleeves why do you even need to get that screw out in the first place? I'd just leave the whole actuator system intact and remove the lower intake as a unit. Then you wouldn't need to do all this fabricating to cover the holes. Is this discussion even necessary?

And Fprep don't worry about it; you didn't start an argument at all. I like to go at with Snyper-X from time to time. I like his hands on approach alright; I just find a couple of his ideas a little half-baked. Once again, no offense is intended. But people please stop acting like you know what you are talking about. If you haven't done it yourself, don't recommend it to anybody. You really need to trace back some of the posts to seperate the knowledgable from the wanna-be's.

FPrep2ndGenRX7

Sniper_X - To be honest the modified sleeve is not my idea. I first read it on another thread and I believe that Pinapple Racing(Rob Golden if I'm not mistaken) did it first. It seemed easy enough to do and didn't require an engine to be disassembled. Like I said, I'm playing some while still keeping my car drivable and reliable.

Superslinc - The reason for the question to start with was to learn some more. I'm quite capable of removing a stripped screw and re-tapping the hole if necessary but I wanted to avoid drilling the screw out or reverting to the vise-grips or whatever to remove it. I figured this has happened to others on the forum so I wanted to see what they did. I did get my answer. When I get the final engine for the F-Prep car I'm going to use a factory intake with an SDS(simple digital system) computer to control it. I've seen this computer used on a GSL-SE and a stock 86 engine/intake with about 20 HP gains to the rear tires. Nothing was ported and the HP numbers are from a chassis dyno. I'm going to clean up the intake(89-91 N/A), port match it all the way through with a mildly ported engine with the hope of getting about 170-180HP to the rear tires. My car weighs about #2200 so that will give me the power/weight ratio close to that of a stock 3rd gen and still have a very reliable engine that makes good usable power from 4000 to 8000 rpm. The car will be trailered to events and all the driving it will do will be at higher RPM's than what is needed to actuate the ports. To me they are just one more thing the engine doesn't need since it will spend most of its life about 4000RPM. As you can see everything I'm doing now is a learning process to help me better accomplish what I want to achieve. Anyway, Thanks for you view point and Good Luck keeping Sniper_X in line.

Later