Scrims

iTrader: (2)

These symptoms come second hand from my dad, who is in current possession of my car.

1986 GXL

Everything was running fine, car was taken to Taco Bell and parked outside. Went to start the car, car started, but had an idle of 2500, and would not go down. Pulling out he noticed that the power steering was not working properly. Proceeded to drive the car home when a burning smell was noticed, so pulled into safeway parking lot and shut down the car. The hood was popped and that's when my dad noticed that the starter motor was still running, though disengaged from the flywheel. He had no tools, so no good way to do anything. Finally someone brought a wrench and the battery was disconnected, after the starter had been running for about 20min.
After letting the motor sit for a few min, the battery was reconnected, but the starter started running again, so the battery was unhooked. After another few min. the battery was again hooked up and this time the starter did not start spinning. The car was bump-started and drove home (10 min drive), still with a high idle of 2500 and no power steering. Now when the key is turned to "start" nothing happens (ie no starter action).

My dad poked around the engine bay a bit and noticed nothing obvious. Belts seemed fine, etc. Though he did noticed a melted connector that had been touching the starter. I thought about a bad ignition switch, but the starter was never engaged to the flywheel.

Engine was rebuild about 10k ago, by me.
Starter was replaced about 4 months ago with an Autolite (i think) from Schucks.
Only engine related mods is a catback and an Optima Redtop battery.
Other than that, it's bone stock.

I'll be home next weekend to work on the car, but until then, any suggestions would be awesome and I can have my dad perform basic procedures if need be. Any ideas help, I'm truly stumped.

HAILERS

I'd guess the starter solenoid is shot. The only reasonable way of checking that out is to pull the trigger wire off the starter. Put the digital meters pos lead on that wire..........neg lead on any good ground spot like a bolt on the transmission or such. Then with meter on the dc scale, hold the key to START. The meter should read batt voltage.

IF not, then the wiring b/t the ignition switch and starter is open. You turn the key to start. Power passes from the pure black ignition lead......thru the ignition switch........to the red/black ignition lead..........to the clutch interlock switch waaaaay up at the top of the clutch switch.......thru the interlock switch if the clutch is depressed...........to a connector in the engine bay located under the trail coil assy (BRIGHT BLUE JUMPER PLUG)........then to the starters small trigger wire.

Some early 86-87 have no clutch interlock switch. I own one of those cars, so if there is no clutch interlock switch, dont be surprised, just go on to the BLUE connector under the trail coil assy.

The above is TRUE if the car has no factory THEFT device.

Or to prove its or isn't the ignition switch, do this: locate the ignition switch plugs. They are about a half foot fwd of the ignition switch itself. Pull the plugs apart. Look at the diagram I attached. One wire is pure black and has batt pwr on it 24/7. Another wire is black/red (black/green if the car is automatic). With the transmision in neutral, install a jumper wire b/t those two wires and depress the clutch. The starter should spin if the thing is any good and IF the wiring b/t the ignition switch and starter solenoid is intact.

The key does not have to be in the car when doing the above. Your bypassing the ignition switch completley.

I don't have much to say about the other problems. One thing at a time.

I attached a jpg of the bright blue jumper connector that is under the trail coil assy on cars with no Theft protection. No reason to think it fell off. But, if you remove that blue jumper plug, and look at the elect plug it was attached to, you'll see that the jumper wire was jumpering a black/white wire and a black/green wire. Well, the black/white goes to the starter solenoids trigger wire. Sooooo, if one got a long piece of wire that reaches b/t the battery positve post and the black/white wire in that connector, he could put one end of that new wire to the batt positive post and the other end to the black/white wire in the connector. Starter should spin over. Make sure the car is in neutral though. No key required. Don't run yourself over.

Probably too many opitons above. Confusing you?

Kinda sounds like the starter solenoid just hung up for unknown reasons. Might be toast now.

Rextasee

damn hailers youre awesome!

Scrims

iTrader: (2)

Thanks for the post. Not too much info, just gives me options and things to try
My dad has this info and will be trying a few things, I'll let ya know how things go.

Oh, and no factory Theft or clutch interlock.

TehMonkay

iTrader: (-1)

You didn't figure out the high idle. First thing to check would be a loose line going to the BAC/AWS valve and a stuck cruise control cable or throttle cable.

Scrims

iTrader: (2)

blue jumper plug was in place.

Ran into a problem though when attempting the other procedures. Whenever the battery is hooked back up, and the starter is give a tap, it starts spinning.... I'm guessing there must be some sort of short somewhere. Maybe in the starter itself, since it's when the starter is nudged that it goes off. Haven't gotten to testing the solenoid b/c of this issue.

Scrims

iTrader: (2)

So I just had the starter tested and it was fine. Solenoid and everything. I'll be checking the ignition wiring and such while the starter is out.

Scrims

iTrader: (2)

Results of checking the starter cables:

The big black cable running to the starter shows 12v AT ALL TIMES
The small striped wire running to the solenoid shows 0v at OFF and ACC, then at ON it shows 2v, then at START it shows 12v.

Does this sound right to you? I'm not sure about the 2v at ON.... Any other thoughts?

HAILERS

Large cable goes directly to the batterys positive post, so batt pwr 24/7 is normal.

Small trigger wire, I think it's supposed to be black/white in color should have batt voltage when the key is put to Start only. The 2v your seeing is a bit of a puzzle. Is that with the small wire connected to the starter? Or off the starter?

I'm not sure the 2v is a concern. That trigger wire, b/w, is also spliced to the coil of the Circuit Opening Relay and the pin 3B on the ECU. I think your seeing a 2v that really is insignificant. LIke look at that wire with a meter and verify the approx 2vdc. Then put that wire to gnd, like the side of the transmission or engine. IF you hold it there with your hand/fingers and feel no heat from the wire and have not blown any fuses, then that 2vdc is backfeed from the circuit opening relays coil or from 3B of the ECU.

You can prove this by pulling the circuit opening relay out of its base and or pulling the small plug off the ECU and seeing if the 2vdc goes south so to speak. If it does, ignore it. I'm tempted to pull my trigger wire off and put a meter on it. Might, might not.

This car have Factory Theft?

HAILERS

I checked that little trigger wire on one of my car. Key to ON and it shows 1.75 vdc. Pulled the small plug off the ECU and it was still there. I believe this is coming from the COIL for the Circuit Opening Relay and is insignificant.

Insignificant in that it is carrying no Current. Ignore the 2vdc, Not your problem.

Notice how that two volts disappears if you put the trigger wire on the starter solenoid. That's what I mean when I say it carrys no current and is insignificant.

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iTrader: (2)

I've determined that the starter must be bad, even though schucks said it was fine.

I connected everything back up, reconnected the battery and the starter immediately began to spin, no engaged, and no key in the ignition. Unhooked the battery, pulled the trigger wire off the starter so that all that goes to it is the +12v and the ground. Hooked up the battery and it again began to spin all on its own.

To me that says it's the starter. I think when schucks hooked it up to their machine, it applies all voltages at the same time so everything turns on when it's supposed to, etc. But with ONLY the 12v is when bad things start to happen. So my dad's going to pick up a new starter and I'm going come back next weekend to put it in. Now I have to drive across the state, so I'm gone for today.

Let me know if I'm missing something here....

Oh, and no Factory Theft.

HAILERS

Gotta be careful connecting up the large wire to the starter solenoid. Look at the solenoid and you see it has two large posts.

One post gets a cable on it , and THAT cable goes inside the starter itself. The other post gets the cable from the batterys positive post.

Also, when you attach that cable from the battery positive post, make darn sure it does not touch that other large post on the solenoid.

Most likely the starter solenoid is bad in your case. Just a guess.

Scrims

iTrader: (2)

Was aware of the different posts
The starter has been hooked up the exact same way for its entire life, so I know it's good. And nothing has bridged the two, the 12v has a good rubber cover on it.

Sooooo yeah. New starter on the way.

Scrims

iTrader: (2)

Replaced the starter today, and all is well once again. No idle problems, nothing. Just hopes it lasts....

Thanks for the help