Polypropylene bushings?
08-28-06, 02:13 AM
#1
Polypropylene bushings?
I'm thinking of a Suspension Specialties non-adjustable suspension kit from Rotary Performance (www.rx7.com) or Racing Beat + Tokico Blues. Neither is supposed to be too harsh, which is what I'm going for: stiffer than stock but still very reasonable.
So my question is, should I get polypropylene bushings, or would they make the ride too harsh? What about a front sway bar?
So my question is, should I get polypropylene bushings, or would they make the ride too harsh? What about a front sway bar?
08-28-06, 07:42 AM
#2
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I went with Tokico blues and some Tein s-tech springs, dropped it about an inch all around and replaced all the bushings with the polyurethane "that made a world of difference" The stock sway bars are just fine for a daily driver, if you plan on doing some auto-x then i would say go with a bigger sway bar, other than that just replace those bushings and go with a strut/spring setup like you have listed.
08-28-06, 09:36 AM
#3
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If your planning on replacing, springs and shocks replace the bushings. When I did my suspension I had them do the bushings also. Why not, half of them were junk after 20 years.
08-28-06, 02:58 PM
#4
I meant should I go polyurethane bushings or new OEM bushings? I'm going to replace them either way.
liquidrx7: Is Tein s-tech relatively soft? Would you still recommend polyurethane for my situation?
So again, to rephrase the question: For a reasonably soft ride, should I go with new OEM bushings or should I get new polyurethane bushings? I know OEM is softer, but will polyurethane bushings leave the ride soft enough?
The last owner of my '7 gave me a sway bar, so that's totally free. Should I install it or will it make the handling/ride too crazy? Last owner was probably planning on installing it on the current suspension setup: TII springs up front and stock springs in the rear.
liquidrx7: Is Tein s-tech relatively soft? Would you still recommend polyurethane for my situation?
So again, to rephrase the question: For a reasonably soft ride, should I go with new OEM bushings or should I get new polyurethane bushings? I know OEM is softer, but will polyurethane bushings leave the ride soft enough?
The last owner of my '7 gave me a sway bar, so that's totally free. Should I install it or will it make the handling/ride too crazy? Last owner was probably planning on installing it on the current suspension setup: TII springs up front and stock springs in the rear.
08-29-06, 10:46 AM
#6
There are two questions that you are really asking as one question. That is why the answers don't make total sense.
On question is will the poly bushings affect ride stiffness. They will not really affect the firmness of the suspension. That is more a function of the spring rate and the diameter of the antisway bar (this is also a spring rate change).
They will affect the response of the suspension due to the very low deflection rate. You will feel very connected to the car and to the road. This is the effect that we all get excited about with these poly bushings. It makes a world of difference.
However then you ask will it be too harsh? The answer is it depends; they will increase IMPACT HARSHNESS tremendously. If you are in an area with potholes, patches and broken pavement, your impacts with the road irregularities will make your car's interior parts rattle and shudder. This may not be an issue if you live in an area where the roads are smooth and clean.
I would try to drive someone elses car that is set up similar to how you describe and see if you like it. Don't ask someone elses opinion of the harshness. It is just too dependant on the local streets and your individual tolerance.
You can also install some of the bushings but replace others with oem rubber to moderate the harshness. For example on a previous car (not rx7) I did the poly bushings; On the sway bar I replaced the 'D' bushings with poly. On the endlinks I used new rubber on the bottom but used poly on the top. This noticably reduced the impact harshness while leaving most of the improved feel.
On question is will the poly bushings affect ride stiffness. They will not really affect the firmness of the suspension. That is more a function of the spring rate and the diameter of the antisway bar (this is also a spring rate change).
They will affect the response of the suspension due to the very low deflection rate. You will feel very connected to the car and to the road. This is the effect that we all get excited about with these poly bushings. It makes a world of difference.
However then you ask will it be too harsh? The answer is it depends; they will increase IMPACT HARSHNESS tremendously. If you are in an area with potholes, patches and broken pavement, your impacts with the road irregularities will make your car's interior parts rattle and shudder. This may not be an issue if you live in an area where the roads are smooth and clean.
I would try to drive someone elses car that is set up similar to how you describe and see if you like it. Don't ask someone elses opinion of the harshness. It is just too dependant on the local streets and your individual tolerance.
You can also install some of the bushings but replace others with oem rubber to moderate the harshness. For example on a previous car (not rx7) I did the poly bushings; On the sway bar I replaced the 'D' bushings with poly. On the endlinks I used new rubber on the bottom but used poly on the top. This noticably reduced the impact harshness while leaving most of the improved feel.
08-29-06, 01:05 PM
#7
I'll have to get in touch with more '7 drivers... as soon as I have time to check the "events" section. Does anyone know any northern California rotary clubs? I'm in the Bay Area right now.
But let's see if we can't figure this out. There aren't too many potholes in So. CA where I normally live. And there's too much slow traffic in No. CA to care about potholes. I don't mind the occassional pothole. So unless it'd be a major nuisance to hit a pothole every once in a while, PE bushings are ok with me. I'm more worried about rough roads: those with cracks in need of repair or those that have been repaired rather coarsely. If PE bushings don't affect that situation, great. I'm also worried about being able to sell my car several years down the road to someone who might not be a ricer. I only have 110K miles on it.
I have read only good things about PE, with hardly any drawbacks mentioned. But if they're so nice and they're cheaper, why aren't they OEM?
But let's see if we can't figure this out. There aren't too many potholes in So. CA where I normally live. And there's too much slow traffic in No. CA to care about potholes. I don't mind the occassional pothole. So unless it'd be a major nuisance to hit a pothole every once in a while, PE bushings are ok with me. I'm more worried about rough roads: those with cracks in need of repair or those that have been repaired rather coarsely. If PE bushings don't affect that situation, great. I'm also worried about being able to sell my car several years down the road to someone who might not be a ricer. I only have 110K miles on it.
I have read only good things about PE, with hardly any drawbacks mentioned. But if they're so nice and they're cheaper, why aren't they OEM?
Last edited by ericgrau; 08-29-06 at 01:34 PM.
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08-29-06, 01:39 PM
#8
Originally Posted by ericgrau
I'll have to get in touch with more '7 drivers... as soon as I have time to check the "events" section. Does anyone know any northern California rotary clubs? I'm in the Bay Area right now.
But let's see if we can't figure this out. There aren't too many potholes in So. CA where I normally live. And there's too much slow traffic in No. CA to care about potholes. I don't mind the occassional pothole. So unless it'd be a major nuisance to hit a pothole every once in a while, PE bushings are ok with me. I'm more worried about rough roads: those with cracks in need of repair or those that have been repaired rather coarsely. If PE bushings don't affect that situation, great. I'm also worried about being able to sell my car several years down the road to someone who might not be a ricer. I only have 110K miles on it.
But let's see if we can't figure this out. There aren't too many potholes in So. CA where I normally live. And there's too much slow traffic in No. CA to care about potholes. I don't mind the occassional pothole. So unless it'd be a major nuisance to hit a pothole every once in a while, PE bushings are ok with me. I'm more worried about rough roads: those with cracks in need of repair or those that have been repaired rather coarsely. If PE bushings don't affect that situation, great. I'm also worried about being able to sell my car several years down the road to someone who might not be a ricer. I only have 110K miles on it.
This is what I am talking bout in terms of the poly bushings being harsh. This harshhess is the downside of poly bushings.
You can work with it to moderate as noted in previous post, but it will be harsher. Remember, one mans's harsh ride is another man's perfect handling car.
08-29-06, 01:41 PM
#9
Originally Posted by jackhild59
Think about the phrase 'Impact Harshness'. Anytime your tires whack something, a tar strip seam, a patch in the road, an uneven seam in the concrete, rough roads etc.
This is what I am talking bout in terms of the poly bushings being harsh. This harshhess is the downside of poly bushings.
You can work with it to moderate as noted in previous post, but it will be harsher. Remember, one mans's harsh ride is another man's perfect handling car.
This is what I am talking bout in terms of the poly bushings being harsh. This harshhess is the downside of poly bushings.
You can work with it to moderate as noted in previous post, but it will be harsher. Remember, one mans's harsh ride is another man's perfect handling car.
BTW, did you know that sometimes polyurethane bushing squeek? Nothing kills satisfaction with your new handling faster than having your car sound like a '64 Chevy Impala.
08-29-06, 01:54 PM
#10
Okay I did a bit more reading in the forums and found bad comments on PE: increased suspension arm wear, FD people complained of the harsh ride getting tiresome, increased noise.
A little more searching revealed delrin bushings as a nice option: no increase in ride harshness, minor noise only noticable at low speeds.
So are there any problems with delrin bushings? Price? Suspension arm wear? Are they available for FCs?
Meh, I'll probably just get OEM.
A little more searching revealed delrin bushings as a nice option: no increase in ride harshness, minor noise only noticable at low speeds.
So are there any problems with delrin bushings? Price? Suspension arm wear? Are they available for FCs?
Meh, I'll probably just get OEM.
Last edited by ericgrau; 08-29-06 at 02:08 PM.
08-29-06, 04:19 PM
#15
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I did replace them all, bought the master kit from http://www.performancecenter.com/pro...+Bushing+Sets/
recieve them in 5 days shipped to Vermont from Cali.
recieve them in 5 days shipped to Vermont from Cali.
08-29-06, 07:26 PM
#20
I found the energy suspension kit to be a tad harsh......no control arm wear or anything like that, isn't aluminum a little tougher than PU?
Its nothing drastically out of this world...I mean I bet $20 that the only reason we are feeling so much of a difference is because the bushing we're replacing are FUCKED, if the car was new you'd probably be happy with the stock ones. But since replacing with stock NOW is out of the question, this is what you do.
Its nothing drastically out of this world...I mean I bet $20 that the only reason we are feeling so much of a difference is because the bushing we're replacing are FUCKED, if the car was new you'd probably be happy with the stock ones. But since replacing with stock NOW is out of the question, this is what you do.
08-29-06, 07:50 PM
#22
You'll have $60 invested per control arm on the front....the rears will be about 100 per side for everything you need......sooo just shy of $400.
edit: note there is also not sway bar bushings in that either...although they are actually not that bad, about 8 dollars for every spot (endlinks included) Either way though its waaaayyy more than just getting a kit.
edit: note there is also not sway bar bushings in that either...although they are actually not that bad, about 8 dollars for every spot (endlinks included) Either way though its waaaayyy more than just getting a kit.
08-29-06, 07:56 PM
#23
Dang, so ~$425 for a full set of OEM bushings? They don't come as a full kit?
At a little over $100, PU is looking a lot better now. I suppose I'll get the Hyperflexes jgrts20 recommended.
Anybody have any experience with delrin bushings? Are they even available for the FC?
At a little over $100, PU is looking a lot better now. I suppose I'll get the Hyperflexes jgrts20 recommended.
Anybody have any experience with delrin bushings? Are they even available for the FC?
08-29-06, 08:01 PM
#24
no they don't come as a set, hardly anything does from the dealer..........we're lucky they sell the external gasket set!!
Derlin? for suspension? are you ******* nuts man!!!
That stuff is way too hard for suspension IMHO....it might "git er done" but I certainly wouldn't want it in my car (I run delrin engine and tranny mounts, but thats a different story) Plus I don't recall ever seeing any kits made of delrin, that were for suspension that is.
Derlin? for suspension? are you ******* nuts man!!!
That stuff is way too hard for suspension IMHO....it might "git er done" but I certainly wouldn't want it in my car (I run delrin engine and tranny mounts, but thats a different story) Plus I don't recall ever seeing any kits made of delrin, that were for suspension that is.
08-30-06, 12:26 AM
#25
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Originally Posted by ericgrau
Dang, anybody who has had PU bushings longer care to comment? Specifically I'm looking for whether or not there's suspension arm wear or any degredation in performance (ride/handling/noise/etc.).
You should be expected to give up some ride quality for the performance.
It's always going to be a trade off.
If you're the least bit worried about having a harsher ride, then go with the OEM stuff.
-Ted