Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

The only explanation you have provided is that there's a way to half *** the repair work in question. And for what? The basis on which your argument stands is to make it easier for someone who doesn't know how to do something properly achieve the same end goal of getting the gearbox onto the engine itself. The important thing is to do the work the right way, not the easier way. Sometimes hard lessons are learned in the process of learning to do something properly. Sometimes when you aren't very good at something you've got to fail once or twice before you get it right. But the core value here is that you do the job properly, even if it means you have to do it twice, so that - in the future - you can do it right the first time.
If you aren't willing to do the work again when you get something wrong, then don't work on cars. We don't need your half assed 3,000lbs cruise missile driving down the road at 70mph near the rest of us who have properly maintained vehicles or pay for repair work to be done properly by a professional that will do things to the letter.

All of this debate over a tiny seal that costs a buck fifty and takes seconds to install correctly. Don't know how to do it right ? Do the research and find out. Boom. Job done. Get it wrong? Well, that sucks, but it happens and you will learn from whatever mistake you made.

What is so terribly wrong with your point of view on the matter is that someone who is trying to find the correct information may read what you have posted and think that it is acceptable to forgo the installation of the seal. This is why we are all fighting you.

At this stage, I vote that if you want to continue to defend your viewpoint, then you need to do so via pm with the other members who's questions you cannot seem to answer to properly defend yourself.

Otherwise, I think we should ask a moderator to step in and lock the thread as the useful information has already been given and sufficient fight against misinformation has already come to pass.

Now it seems you're only willing to answer the questions posed to you with more questions. Which makes it appear as if you do not possess the knowledge to answer those questions with any sort of validity.

insightful

i do agree that it should be locked, but not for those reasons. and personally i don't feel either way is wrong, even though i believe that your perspectives that there is only one way to do it is correct would be false.

i also take into consideration that most who wind up doing this job wind up doing it with the car on the ground, without a lift, without transmission guide pins, without a transmission stand and half way exhausted when they get to the point of aligning the transmission to the block, at awkward angles because the engine also needs to be perfectly jacked as well.

so, well, forgive me for being realistic.


additionally, i yanked plenty of engines that had no pilot seal. so apparently i'm not the only one who feels it's not an absolute must all the time. oh, and those pilot bearings were still just fine.

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

Don't further muddy this by making excuses for why you're recommending improper procedure specifics.

I do not own a lift, and I do this work on the ground using simple jackstands and basic tools, no specialist transmission jack, beat after a long day at work on little sleep, back hurts, cat just died, boyfriend won't put out etc etc etc. I'm not the only one, and neither are you. Other people manage just fine as well.

insightful

actually, the whole point for me is that the seals are poorly designed in the first place. had they been more tapered like a pinion or wheel seal without a double lip design it would be much easier to work with them. rounding the snout of the input shaft is another method of avoiding disasters due to crushed seals.

but just because you have been lucky enough to not have had the described scenarios happen doesn't mean they don't, and they are easy enough no matter how careful you are.

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

Sounds to me like '**** happens'. Use the seal.

scathcart

No testing.
No measured results.
Just backyard mechanic opinion.

Your only attempt at a valid argument was trying to describe other engineering failures, and nothing to do with the pilot bearing. Your argument is: "leave it out if you're going to botch the engine install"

One test is worth more than a thousand opinions and guesses.
Your opinion goes against every OEM manufacturer, every respextable rotary engine builder, and every engineer's testing.

Put up some verifiable test results. Until then, its just a worthless opinion

insightful

verifiable proof i guess would be not bothering with the seal and not having it fail in my car for 100k miles.

clokker

iTrader: (2)

That would be one data point, its singularity makes it meaningless.

TonyD89

iTrader: (10)

This thread is like the "Will an airplane take off if it's on a treadmill?" thread in the lounge.


You just can't fix stupid, you just can't...

Lavitzlegend

iTrader: (3)

No offense Insightful as it seems you have good intentions but you are just wrong in this instance. The seal needs to be there for longevity of the pilot bearing for both keeping out contamination and keeping in the grease. Even if you argue that clutch dust won't make it in there are numerous other contaminants that can. Also, a bearing without the proper captured grease/lubricant will have a shorter lifespan. Plain and simple.

If you think a design engineer's only constraints are performance and durability of the parts we design, you horribly misunderstand all our constraints. Not to mention the supply management department spends at least 50% of their days asking me if we can switch suppliers to use a cheaper part even though we have never had problems with the current supplier/part for many years. Designing vehicle systems, and any system for that matter, is always a balance of cost to performance while also meeting countless other guidelines, safety regulations, emissions regulations, etc etc etc.

insightful

actually i know 100% for a fact i'm not wrong, but whatever.

Acesanugal

iTrader: (5)

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