Long story short, I hit a wall drifting (at the track) the other day on the front passenger side. Not a hard hit, I was going no more than 10 miles an hour by the time I hit the wall. The hit only really ruined the fender and tweaked the core support no more than an inch or so over an which I have already straightened out. The core support is now lined up how it was before the crash and doesn't seem to pose an issue, headlights still go up and down, hood shuts fine ect, but the passenger side wheel is toed out, and to bring it back to being straight at 0 degrees of toe, I have to max the tie rod to as tight as it will go, with no more threads showing. When that is done it drives just like it used to, perfectly straight, steers responsive as ever, only thing is then the steering wheel is a bit crooked by a few degrees . After going over almost everything under the car i cant see and sign of frame damage, a bent tie rod, control arm ect. Could it be minor frame damage to small to see? nothing is visibly bent just looking at it. any pointers or suggestions as to what to check or what could have happened would be greatly appreciated.

 

this is stuff you can't merely eyeball, you'd need to check strut tower measurements, subframe to ball joint and alignment figures.

 

cant seem to find any diagrams, or write ups on making theses measurements, think you could point me in the right direction? thanks.

 

Even a 5mph collision can tweak the frame of a car - and 10mph is double the speed, but four times the impact force (F=ma^2). You need something like this chassis dimensions diagram. http://grannys.tripod.com/2C8chassisprintsm.jpg

That's a lot of measuring, even just at the front, so considering where and at what angle you hit, and what the paths for transmitting the force to the body likely were (obviously the control arm mounts, upper strut mount, and fender attachment points as starters) would help narrow the search. Also, look around the ribs in the front chassis rails - those are points it's designed to bend at to absorb collision energy through collapse, so look for cracked paint that might hint at places it's flexed. The front of the transmission tunnel is quite large, and except on verts, there is no factory reinforcement that boxes that area from the factory - its a known weak spot in an otherwise pretty flex-free chassis for the Eighties (racers commonly add a brace there, it's more useful than a strut tower brace on these cars), and that happens to be where the lower control arm rear attachment point is - I'd almost guarantee there's deflection of that area - check out the firewall around the tunnel for any signs of creasing/cracked paint as well.

 

Awesome stuff I will definantly find one of those diagrams and check all that you have mentioned! would you think something like this if would even be worth repairing? seeing as how I picked up the car for 1000 I was thinking of just picking up another shell to swap everything over to and basically just run this shell till it dies if it ends up being that its tweaked.

 

You probably bent the control arm. Check the wheel bearing / hub for play. Check the control arm and bushings for play. Anything excessive needs replacing followed by an alignment. It's not wise to drive with maxed out tie rod ends.

FYI... The impact may have been on one side, but the other side could be a problem as well.

 

pretty unlikely to bend the aluminum FC lower control arm, a visible crack would be an easy indicator right before the whole car settles on the pavement.

possible that the upper tower is bent or the lower camber cams were loose enough to push all the way to negative camber, but i'd think the tire sitting like a VW baja *** end would be easy to spot.

 

And check the tie rod to see if it's bent. Easy stuff first.

 

if the tie rod was bent the opposite symptom would occur, running out of threads vs needing to run them to the stop.

i wonder if it is possible to strip a gear off in the steering gear so that the shaft pulls to the next thread, making the tie rod seem elongated.

 

The steering wheel would be off center, I think.

And, you are correct about the way you would have to adjust.

 

I have checked all of the control arms tie rods ect and they look fine....and you are correct when I run the threads all the way in on the tie rod it drives straight but the steering wheel is crooked.......there is literally no cracked pain't creasing or any indicator of the strut tower being bent....I have a strut brace that also goes to the firewall too so I think it would be hard to bend.

 

Are the bolts on the subframe scooted?

 

nope, all lined up, all straight, even the ones where there is a cutout to get to them, perfectly centered.

 

I used to do lots of alignments on car that went into ditches in snow storms and the like. You cannot easily tell just by eyeball what is bent and how much. Take it to get aligned and check your SAI measurement. The left and right sides should be pretty close to even. If its out by more than a degree, you have bent parts. End of story. A 10 mph collision is huge when you factor in the forces required to bend metal. I had loads of Subarus that came in after a snowstorm that thought AWD would save them. The steering wheel would be off at 9 o'clock and drive like crap. You would look underneath and it would "look ok", but parts would be very bent. It does not take much to set a car out.

The knuckle may be bent. I'm not convinced your tie rods are straight and I would not be surprised if your strut tower may have moved.

Think about it this way. If you ran into your car on foot at 10 mph, you probably will have a bruised shoulder and a bent fender/bumper. If a car hit you at 10 mph, it probably would send you over the hood and hitting the ground about 10 feet away.

F=MA^2

 

yeah i can definitely see how even at low speeds it can do some damage, ill make some measurements and see whats up. I did take a square to the tie rod and it isn't bent at all, ill make some measurements on the strut tower then, only other thing is, around me its a pain to find a shop that will do an alignment on a lowered car.

 

Did you pull the boot off the rack and check the whole length? I would bet that you knuckle may be the issue. That are surprisingly soft

 

I pulled the boot off everything looked good, check the length of the tie rod? no are the passanger and drivers side different? I am going to pull the knuckle or atleast the rotor off and ill look over the knuckle.

 

+1 the PO of my car hit a guard rail at one point, and nothing looked bent, but to get even camber both sides were maxed out in opposite directions.

upon tear down, i found a bent camber plate, the subframe wasn't straight, and i think it had a bent knuckle too.

changed all three parts and its fixed.

 

Sweet I am going to really tear into it tomorrow, what do you mean bent camber plate? was your car stock or did you actually have aftermarket camber plates?

 

..hmm.
If the steering wheel is off then why not pull the steering wheel off and turn it on the splines on the column..to straighten it to center??The column has 27 splines so you can easily pull the steering wheel,turn the wheel to the next spline on the shaft and put the nut back on.
It own't fix what is going on down below but at least it will put the steering wheel straight "upright" inside the cabin.

 

the steering wheel doesn't bother me I want to actual fix whatever is bent lol

 

My old car had hit a pole in a parking lot.Not me..I bought it that way.slight body damage.
I straightened the body stuff and got it to fit but still it wasn't right.
Turns out it was dogtracking and the whole front was out by an inch.
I found this out when I took the car in to get looked at.
They had to put it on a frame straightening machine and put it back to normal.
I'd be sure that you need to get it t o a shop and let them check it,..you can't tell what the damage is as you can't see it with the naked eye.

 

The part of a correct alignment is making sure the wheel is straight. You center the rack to itself, center the wheel to the rack, and straighten the wheels in relation to the rear centerline, thrust angle, and finally the rack alignment.

Tearing into it without getting it at least checked first will only cause you to miss the parts that are possibly bent.

Hell, most Firestone stores will charge you $20 for an alignment check. Get the printout and look at the numbers to figure out where to look first.