stuwk1

This is the third time I have taken off my front cover in the past 3 days. I have a drift event I am soppose to be at in 3 hours. Each time I put in a new ORING and new TEFLON ring the car has s5 irons. At cold idle I see 90-100 psi (FD Pressure Regulator) once it gets hot i only see 50ish max, and the higher i go in my revs it drops off even more. Both times now when i pulled my front cover the teflon ring is still where its soppose to be but both times the o ring was gone.
What the hell am i doing wrong.
I have not used the gasket but have used rtv both times. Is that my problem? Mazdatrix says both works.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

So I'd say you've already seen this, but posting just in case:

86-92 Front Cover "O"-Ring

edit: are the front cover and housing ok (nothing broken off where the o-ring goes)? And are you torquing the front cover bolts? BTW, I always like to use gaskets whenever I can get them.

stuwk1

front cover is in good condition, and i am torqueing the front cover bolts to their spec.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Are you sure you are properly matching the o-ring and Teflon right to your front iron? Are you sure you are using the correct o-ring?

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

better yet why are we arguing about the o-ring?

if it fails you will have about 15psi at idle, not 50.

you're experiencing an oil pressure gauge issue or possibly aeration from a faulty pickup tube or gasket.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

time to try the N390 or Rx8 front cover gasket, they delete the Oring...

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

if i hear someone mention the cover o-ring one more time i'm going to go postal!

start by getting a mechanical gauge or renting one to see if it matches the stock gauge.

stuwk1

I bought a mechanical guage, and tried two different digital. Have used two different oil pedestals and had different oil filters. Right now I am using the RB pedestal. I run dual oil coolers and have tried using one or bypassing both neither changed my results. 50 is NOT what I see at idle But it is the HIGHEST I see when the car is warm at ANY rpm and as I increase throttle it actually decreases slightly 5 or so psi. I see around 15 -20 at idle- HOT. My first attempt to fix this I simply used an O-ring and no teflon ring. I had the same oil pressure problem and after removing the front cover the o-ring was still in its place and I figured my problem remained because I did not use the correct oring setup.
After confirming what O-Ring I should be using ( I have s5 irons so I use teflon and ORING.) I installed the teflon with oring two seperate times each time resulting in the Teflon staying and the O-ring disappearing. So I had someone mill a grove for a very thick O-ring on the front cover side of the surface to keep it from escaping again. After starting the car with that in place my Oil pressure is doing the same thing I also dissembled the front relief valve to make sure nothing was going on in there.

I am running a t4 turbo with a large streeport on this engine.

rx7_FREAKKK

iTrader: (1)

You sure its an S5 Front cover? and you have an S5 Front cover Gasket? If you have the wrong parts it wont work. the teflon ring should fit nicely Inside the front cover Gasket. If you have an S4 Front Iron You dont need the Teflon Because the Front cover Gasket is the same size as the Oring. I made my mistake when i asked for a s4 rebuild kit and got an S5 and didnt pay attention.
thats how Orings Vanish

stuwk1

Like I said I have reviewed the mazdatrix FAQ on this. I do infact have s5 irons and need a teflon and O-ring. Mazdatrix claims it works with silicon or with the gasket I was on time restraints so I did not use one, I will be trying the gasket next.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

so the milled iron the o-ring still escaped?

and i swear the original post said the o-rings were always still in place. if they're disappearing then there isn't enough tension being applied to the o-ring from the front cover.

stuwk1

Havent checked the milled o ring yet. Will take cover off tonight.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

buy the Rx8 or N390 front cover gasket, no o ring!

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

i know on my personal car someone had milled the front iron previously before i got the car and i have had a hell of an issue keeping that o-ring in place.

never had a single issue with it on any customer engines with untouched irons.

stuwk1

Irons not milled. groove is on the housing surface that dosent already have a lip.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

then you're creating a slack spot for the o-ring to slip out of. consider a pipe between the 2 junctions, nowhere for the o-ring to slide into. a very thin stainless steel pipe won't disrupt the oil flow but you may have to drill the front cover and/or iron to accept it.

no idea why mazda designed that galley the way they did with the exception of the relief valve, there is a port straight out that same galley on the driver side of the block.

stuwk1

Did some further searching, found out I have been running the wrong dipstick = underfilling. Engine still seems to be allright, havent found alot of metal in pan or anything. My o ring was still firmly seated when I pulled my front cover. Took appart my oil pump and found a good bit of shavings around the shaft. OP housing does not seem to be very scored, normal wear.

Dosent quite make sense how I still managed to blow out two o-rings running too little oil.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

unrelated i'm sure. they were going to blow out even if you were running enough oil.

but i'm still not sure you have found the problem, unless adding 1 quart to the engine seemed somehow right... it only takes about 1 quart to still allow the engine to push proper oil pressure before the oil light comes on and the pump starts to cavitate. oil cooling is severely compromised though and that will affect oil pressure to a certain degree.

stuwk1

Ive actually always had my oil a little over F with that other dipstick, and atleast put in 4 quarts. But comparing the dipsticks, where my oil was when i switched sipsticks was slightly below the L on the right dipstick.

Oil light never came on for it was never hooked up.

Yes i am still stumped but Have found a few new clues though. Pulled appart my oil pump and it had a little bit of metal shavings around its shaft. The pucks inside have some nice scratch marks on them nothing super deep or gouged.

Could the wear on my oil pump cause pressure loss when the oil is hot? I put the nut on the pump when it was still in the car put some oil in the pan and turned it with a drill. Was able to shoot a good 10 feet of oil, it was pretty rad.

Also removed my front stationary gear to check bearing, There is a good ammount of copper showing but i cant seem to remember if I replaced them with the rebuild or not- but i did replace rotor bearings. Could out of spec stationary gear bearings cause low oil pressure?

SpikeDerailed

iTrader: (7)

How much oil were you adding before during an oil change and how much now? With a stock oil pan on just a drain and fill its normally around 5qts, with a pineapple racing pan its around 7qts. Yes out of spec bearings can and will show lower oil pressure. That applies to both boingers and rotary engines.

RotaryEvolution

iTrader: (30)

yes

stuwk1

Ok. But would it cause it to only happen when hot? or would out of spec cause low all the time.

j9fd3s

iTrader: (3)

all the time, but oil is thinner when its hot, so you will notice it more when the oil is hot.

stuwk1

Is oil pressure also related to worn rotor bearings or would that cause excess amounts of oil burning. Basically I need to know if I have to crack open my keg or I can replace my stat gear bearings and be fixed.

SpikeDerailed

iTrader: (7)

If the stationary gears are in a bad way there is no reason to think the rotor bearing will be much better off. Excessive oil burning(from engine not turbo) would either be worn out irons or rotor oil seals.