ROSHX7

Will this wreck my rotary? It says on the back its for cleaning and dissolving sludge and grime off a piston engine...you add it in and run the engine at idle for 5mins, then drain the oil. I've used it in all my other cars I've owned and it REALLY CLEANED it well! The old OIL came out super black and the new oil I put in stayed clean longer then ever. But I'm skeptical about using it on my TII..., should I or NOT?

niner

i would definately be skeptical about using one of those in one of our cars. most do what they say but i wouldnt trust em for a rotary just b/c ive never heard of anyone who's done it before. i would just stick to ATF.

skibum9199

I ALMOST used that stuff in my motor, but then decided to stay on the safe side and not use it... Has anyone every used it? I can't think of any ill effects offhand, but there must be some.


~Jesse

dre_2ooo

I think somewhere along the line (no pun intended) it'll screw the OMP or related rotary-only items

fc3s.org

I have used it on my Project 86 car. I especially use it when I install a J-Spec motor, or any other used engine that I have no idea of what has been used for oil to start from a close to neutral ground. I haven't had any type of ill or bad effect by doing this. It really cleans out the old crap and my oil stays cleaner when I change it. If your oil comes out dark when you change it, then this might be a helper for you. I don't see how it can hurt anything in our engines. There isn't enough exposure to do any damage I wouldn't think.

Scott 89t2

I'd stay on the safe side and not use it. if you want to clean it up good, change the oil with some cheaper oil and let it run for a little while and warm up. then dump is out again and fill with the oil you want to use. this well help get all the old oil out. other wise you will always have some left behind in the cooler etc.

of course you could just use better oil the first time too, it'll just cost more.

copandengr

You need to remember that a rotary uses its oil differently than a recip. First off, it does not blow combustion by products into the oil pan, hence there is no sludge build up there. Blow by in a rotary simply goes into the adjacent rotor combustion faces. There is also no valve train where sludge can build up. Oil in a rotary is really limited to lubing the main bearings, rotor bearings and cooling the rotors.

The oil cooler and the rotors hold a significant amount of oil. If you put the solvent cleaner in there you will still have some of it left when you drain the pan. This may dilute your fresh oil too much.

This stuff is nothing more than a solvent that acts like a parts cleaner fluid. The places in the rotary that build up carbon will not be affected by it, so I can't see any benefit to using it.

If you think your oil pan may have some crud in it, flush it out after draining it but do not start the engine. Just leave the drain plug out and pour some solvent down the filler tube.

fastrotaries

What about using this stuff like the ATF. I Just pulled apart a 12a that had 40,000 miles on the motor and the amount of carbon was unbelieveable. so could this stuff help in this manner. People use MMO like the ATF and in a way it dissolves sludge too right? I couldn't see harming the OMP, Instead i think it would clean out some deposits that may be just hanging around.
As for the oil being thinned out by this stuff.....i would have to say that if you use a thick enough oil then you should be ok. Perhaps you would have to do 2 oil changes back to back.

just my .02

skibum9199

I tried the MMO once, and it seemed to run WORSE after... that was enough for me, i went back to atf If I havent done the atf trick in a while, I'll use a little fuel cleaner with the atf, just to speed up the process a little and make it more thorough. I don;t know what kind of effect that it would have on the rubber seals though, so I use it sparingly and for shorter periods of time. Using the flush stuff mixed with atf would probably do wonders for the carbon, but not for the rubber o rings that seal out the water... Use at your own discretion i guess


~Jesse

13bSJ

how do u know if theres a great amount of sludge in your engine will the oil on the dipstick be very dark?

sar

iTrader: (1)

This is a technique of the past due to the detergents in ATF - good oils have similar qualities now. ATF in oil will have the water boil out leaving only the Ethylene glycol which eats away rubber.

For cleaning carbon off of the faces of engines stick to the water treatment, it has no poisonous chemicals that break down rubber or silicone in it, and we all know how well steam cleaning works. http://rotaryresurrection.com/tech_water_injection.html

I agree with the others in an engine flush, flushing the engine will greatly reduce the engine cooling for that period of time, and think about it this way... during the flush you will be running with no oil at all - which do you think is better, oil getting dirtier quicker or an engine running without oil? If you do do this make sure you drain the oil cooler seperately.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Ho...is%20Prevented

boost777

interesting debate here, but heres something to think about.the rotary by nature seems to be a hot running engine. so even if you have use a turbo timer the motor heat soaks everything under the hood when its shut off.so all the oil in the orifices and at the lubrication points tends to coke up when the engine is shut off.after time these deposits can build up and restrict the flow of fresh oil to your engine and turbo.i use the cheap can of motor flush(kerosene) every other time i change my oil in all my cars.and when you use it you arent running with no oil, you pour in a quart with your old oil before you drain it.your engines cooling isnt affected in the least because its still full of oil.the kerosene dilutes the oil slightly, but not enough to change its ability to lubricate.i pour it into a warm engine and let it idle for 5 minutes.the engine is under no load so it really doesnt wear on anything or cause it to get hot.the instructions say specifically not to rev the engine after adding it.i like to deviate a bit and raise my idle to about 1200 to cause the oil pressure to raise slightly.my reason for doing this is twofold: to increase the pressure at which the solvent/oil mix is being forced out of the oil jets and orifices, and to increase the volume of oil supplied to it's wear surfaces.i have found this to remove more build-up than just idling. i have experienced no ill effects in 24 years of doing it on about 15 different cars.what you will notice is more carbon and sludge being removed in your drained oil.another simple thing you can do is open your hood everytime you park your car.this will allow you engine to cool much quicker so the oil coking tendencies will be less of an issue.this also will help all the rubber and plastic parts under you hood last much longer.when all i had was an apartment carport i would pop the hood, then spend a few minutes checking my tire pressures, cleaning my windows, wiping down my interior etc.this would allow the engine compartment to cool considerably before i went inside.and 13bSJ, it usually means the oil is just old and needs to be changed.if it has gotten to the point its black on the dipstick i would definitely use the motor flush when changing the oil.check the dipstick about 50 miles after doing it, and if it still isnt clean just repeat the process.

13bSJ

thanks a lot! what i usually do is drain my old oil out, run a quart of oil through the engine to flush out the old oil. I then fill the engine with oil, plug up the drain plug and let it run for 5-10 minutes. afterward i would drain the oil once again and flush the engine once again with a quart of just to make sure all of the old oil is out. I then fill it up again untill the next oil change in which these steps are repeated. i work at an oil change shop so i dont really worry about oil. the oil also comes out of a high pressured gun which i think helps flush out the old oil when i run a quart through it.
the oil is perfectly new when i check my dip stick.

boost777

youre not actually starting the engine with just one quart in it are you? i assume you mean youre just adding a quart and letting it drain out the bottom with the engine off.the quart you let drain through is really a waste of time.use the motor flush before you drain it the first time.let that drain completely, and if you get free oil just refill it and start the engine to let it warm the oil again.then drain that and refill.that is a surefire way to get all the kerosene out.damn, wish i got free oil.the sludge will be gone in no time.

RETed

Waste of time and money...on a properly maintained engine.
Good, quality, name-brand engine oils all have "detergents" added into them.
If you stick to a strict 3,000 miles oil change schedule, there should be very little problems with "sludge" and crud build-up inside the engine.

The best thing you can do is keep changing your oil and oil filter every 3,000 miles.


-Ted

13bSJ

yeah i meant i run a quart through it with the engine off. free oils is pretty nice.

Aaron Cake

iTrader: (1)

Wow, old thread....

I say don't waste your time. Unlike a piston engine that has an oil gallery, almost the entire oiling system in the rotary is pressurized. There aren't any tiny gravity feed passages to clog up. Aside from the oil cooler, there isn't anything to flush...And yes, you can get the cooler flushed at many rad shops...

deadRX7Conv

My only question is, "why do you think that you need a flush?"

The problem with the rotary engine is that there is too much oil that is NOT drained out when you pull the plug.
This is why I'll recommend the ~4 oil change intervals per year or ~3k miles, WHICHEVER COMES FIRST!
You shouldn't need to use ANY additives or flushes with that OCI regimen.

You can use an engine oil flush. But you'll need another rinse oil change to remove all that solvent from your engine. Higher ratios of flush solvents don't make good lubricants. This means you add the flush to your 'cold' engine. You run it for 5-10 minutes. You drain the old dirty solvent soaked oil out and change the filter. You refill.
You go for a 15 minute ride. And, you then change the oil/filter AGAIN to remove any leftover solvent flush! Not worth the hassle.

ATF doesn't have any more detergents then motor oil. ATF is thin like a 20wt motor oil. Any thinner fluid can get into varnish sludge better than a thick fluid or oil. But, ATF isn't thin enough to work in 5-10 minutes like very thin and light solvents.

Marvel is roughly a 20wt oil. Its basically a thick oil thinned down to a 20wt with light solvents. It'll work better than ATF because of the solvents. And, when mixed with your oil capacity, the ratio of solvents won't affect lubricity like a quart of pure solvent flush. It is also not a short term flush. In order for MMO to work, it will require many miles of usage because of the low ratio of solvent diluted with yoiur 5 quarts of oil. IMO, Rislone is very similar.

CD2 makes an oil detergent. Supposedly its just a less diluted standard(concentrated) motor oil package. It can be used for the entire 3k OCI. Other brands have similar 'oil treatments' or 'engine protectants'. Pick one that shakes like motor oil(not thick like STP or thin like Gunk flush) and avoid the solvent flush.

Dokta

To keep my engine clean I use a half a quart of marvel mystery oil when I change my oil. I try to keep to 2500 miles between changes... sometimes I go over, but usually not more than 3000.

SpooledupRacing

if u read the back of alot of engien flushes they are KEROSENE and IMO do nothing but cause leaks.. the kerosene breaks any brittle gaskets or seals that may still currently in tact. when I worked for Valvoline we would use this tuff and dont get me wrong it worked HOWEVER the ill effects were outstanding for the cause

Dave

ericgrau

iTrader: (1)

Will it hurt your engine? I dunno. Will it help? If it's good quality it might help a tiny bit. Don't bother.

Just do regular oil changes with API certified motor oil or, if synthetic, a brand listed in the FAQ. Gas up w/ Chevron, 76 or Shell (www.toptiergas.com; endorsed by BMW, Honda and others). Coolant changes are also very important, as is other maintenance.