The Official its Summer and There Are Going to be a Million AC Questions...THREAD
04-21-08, 11:35 PM
#202
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figured i could help by posting the more important a/c tsb's
A/C - Poor Cooling Performance or Inoperative
Notes
Category Applicable Model/s Subject Bulletin No. 020/87
16 1987 RX-7 COMPRESSOR REFRIGERANT LEAKAGE Issued 6/15/87
Revised
DESCRIPTION
If a customer complains of "poor air conditioning cooling performance" or "air conditioner doesn't work", it may be caused by the following condition:
Refrigerant R-12 may leak from bolt area which secures the hose assembly (block fitting) to the compressor cylinder head. This is caused by pin holes in the aluminum casting, between the bolt hole and the discharge port.
(see pic 1)
To determine if a vehicle needs to be inspected for leakage, confirm the following:
1. Check if the vehicles are within the following VIN range:
JM1FC33**H0500001-JM1FC33**H0543108
(See pic 2)
2. Check if a yellow mark has been painted on the compressor as shown in illustration. If so, compressor has already been tested for leakage by the manufacturer.
(See pic 3)
3. Check compressor Serial Number Date Code. (See example below)
^ If the compressor is manufactured after May 1987, the cylinder head has been modified.
^ If the compressor is manufactured prior to May 1987 and no yellow paint is noticeable, proceed to the following inspection procedures.
INSPECTION PROCEDURE
In addition to the normal diagnosis of the A/C system, the following inspection procedures must be exercised:
1. Precautions:
^ Halogen leak detector (Sensivity 0.5 oz/yr) should be used.
^ Probe tip of halogen leak detector should not touch any object. Faulty leak indication may result due to oil, water, etc.
^ Probe tip should not stay in the same spot any longer than two seconds. Faulty leak indication may result.
2. Inspection Procedures:
^ Using compressed air, blow area to be checked or use a clean towel to wipe away any oil deposits which may have been left from assembly.
^ Start the engine and run the air conditioner for 2 to 3 minutes at idle.
^ Turn off the engine and wait for 2 to 3 minutes.
NOTE:
Refrigerant R-12 easily dissolves in oil and the presence of oil can cause a false indication of leakage.
(See pic 4)
^ Using leak detector, check for leakage at the area shown.
NOTE:
Be sure to move the probe tip around while checking.
^ If leakage is evident, blow air and check for leakage once again. If the leak detector still indicates leakage, the compressor should be replaced.
WARRANTY INFORMATION
Other than MMA-C Area MMA-C Area
Customer Comment Code: 6J A1
Damage Code: 11 AG
Part Number of Main Cause: 0000-67-D00A-6A 0000-67-D00A-6A
Operation Number: 153010-R-X 153010-R-X
Labor Hours: 1.4 Hrs 1.4 Hrs
Process Number: J7-001A J7-001A
A/C - Poor Cooling Performance or Inoperative
Notes
Category Applicable Model/s Subject Bulletin No. 020/87
16 1987 RX-7 COMPRESSOR REFRIGERANT LEAKAGE Issued 6/15/87
Revised
DESCRIPTION
If a customer complains of "poor air conditioning cooling performance" or "air conditioner doesn't work", it may be caused by the following condition:
Refrigerant R-12 may leak from bolt area which secures the hose assembly (block fitting) to the compressor cylinder head. This is caused by pin holes in the aluminum casting, between the bolt hole and the discharge port.
(see pic 1)
To determine if a vehicle needs to be inspected for leakage, confirm the following:
1. Check if the vehicles are within the following VIN range:
JM1FC33**H0500001-JM1FC33**H0543108
(See pic 2)
2. Check if a yellow mark has been painted on the compressor as shown in illustration. If so, compressor has already been tested for leakage by the manufacturer.
(See pic 3)
3. Check compressor Serial Number Date Code. (See example below)
^ If the compressor is manufactured after May 1987, the cylinder head has been modified.
^ If the compressor is manufactured prior to May 1987 and no yellow paint is noticeable, proceed to the following inspection procedures.
INSPECTION PROCEDURE
In addition to the normal diagnosis of the A/C system, the following inspection procedures must be exercised:
1. Precautions:
^ Halogen leak detector (Sensivity 0.5 oz/yr) should be used.
^ Probe tip of halogen leak detector should not touch any object. Faulty leak indication may result due to oil, water, etc.
^ Probe tip should not stay in the same spot any longer than two seconds. Faulty leak indication may result.
2. Inspection Procedures:
^ Using compressed air, blow area to be checked or use a clean towel to wipe away any oil deposits which may have been left from assembly.
^ Start the engine and run the air conditioner for 2 to 3 minutes at idle.
^ Turn off the engine and wait for 2 to 3 minutes.
NOTE:
Refrigerant R-12 easily dissolves in oil and the presence of oil can cause a false indication of leakage.
(See pic 4)
^ Using leak detector, check for leakage at the area shown.
NOTE:
Be sure to move the probe tip around while checking.
^ If leakage is evident, blow air and check for leakage once again. If the leak detector still indicates leakage, the compressor should be replaced.
WARRANTY INFORMATION
Other than MMA-C Area MMA-C Area
Customer Comment Code: 6J A1
Damage Code: 11 AG
Part Number of Main Cause: 0000-67-D00A-6A 0000-67-D00A-6A
Operation Number: 153010-R-X 153010-R-X
Labor Hours: 1.4 Hrs 1.4 Hrs
Process Number: J7-001A J7-001A
04-21-08, 11:42 PM
#203
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A/C - System Repair
Notes
Category Applicable Model/s Subject Bulletin No. 056/88
15 1986-1988 RX-7 HEATER & A/C SYSTEM REPAIR Issued 1/13/88
Revised
DESCRIPTION
There are three basic areas to check if this system is malfunctioning:
1. Logicon Unit Check with Logicon Checker and voltmeter.
2. Heater Amp Control Box Check according to Service Bulletin, Category 15, No .037/86.
3. Motorized Actuators (air mix. mode control, REC-Fresh) Check using Ohmmeter, voltmeter and physical inspection.
Since the Logicon unit is often replaced when the actual problem is elsewhere in the system, be sure to check all three major areas BEFORE replacing the Logicon.
1. CHECKING THE LOGICON
IMPORTANT NOTE:
The Logicon Checker tests only the Logicon, and will NOT indicate problems in the actuators or heater amp control box. Nor will this checker indicate problems with signals going to the actuators.
The Logicon can be checked using the Logicon Checker and voltmeter as per procedures listed in the Workshop Manual. However, some problems with the system often are NOT caused by the Logicon unit itself. Actuator problems, etc. possibly may feed back into the Logicon and cause damage. In such cases, a damaged Logicon may be a symptom, but not the real cause of the problem. Therefore, before replacing a Logicon, check other areas of the system.
Signals sent to the actuators from the Logicon are simply either 12 volts or ground. The 12V signal starts whenever a button or lever is moved. For example, signals to the air mix actuator must be checked while moving the temperature control lever. Once the actuator reaches the proper position, the signal stops. (However, if the temperature control lever is at the highest or lowest position, the 12V signal continues to be sent to the actuator.) These signals can be checked with a voltmeter or test light. Ideally, a polarity tester which indicates whether current or ground exists may also be used.
(See Pic 1)
The main connector to the Logicon unit is located under the trim panel at the inside base of the windshield. This connector can be reached easier and faster by removing the trim panel.
(See Pic 2)
2. CHECKING THE HEATER AMP CONTROL BOX
The time to check the heater amp control is when there is a problem with blower speed during heater or A/C operation. The heater amp control box attaches onto the Logicon unit itself. Therefore, to reach the amp control box, you must remove the Logicon unit.
[Complaint] Blower fan does not go to full high speed or speed is too slow or operation is erratic.
[Check/Repair] Replace heater amp control as per Service Bulletin, Category 15, No .037/86.
(See Pic 3)
3. CHECKING THE AIR MIX ACTUATOR
The air mix actuator connector can be reached from under the dashboard, to the left of the center console. This actuator is a combination servo motor and position sensor. The actuator "parks" at certain positions based on the position of the temperature control slide lever. If the links to the actuator are bent, restricted or attached in the wrong position, the actuator may be prevented from stopping at the proper position, thus resulting in internal damage. Proper positions can be verified as per workshop manual procedures. The G/W and Y wires alternately provide power and ground from the Logicon to operate the servo. The remaining 3 wires send signals to the Logicon according to the position of the air mix temperature door.
[Complaint 1] A/C operates normally, but suddenly goes to heat. May return back to A/C again for no apparent reason (without touching controls). May occur either intermittently or on a regular basis. Also may occur in opposite (heater to A/C).
[Check/Repair 1] Check air mix actuator, connector, actuator link. Be sure link and heater water valve do not restrict actuator movement. If above factors check "good" but problem persists, problem may be internal. Replace the actuator with the new one.
[Complaint 2] Air volume is correct and comes out of proper opening, but is not heated properly or is always hot.
[Check/Repair 2] Check the following:1. Air mix actuator
2. Rod links
3. Water valve
4. Clearance of wires
Be sure air mix moves heater water valve while the temperature control lever is moved. If movement is correct, problem is likely either in heater valve, cooling system, or heater core. If movement is NOT correct, check connector, link, servo motor, etc. If actuator does NOT move, disconnect G-04 connector, jump 12V at the motor side to B/W terminal and ground Y terminal (then reverse ground and power). If the motor is good, it should operate in one direction and reverse as 12V and ground are reversed at the terminals.
At the harness side connector, measure voltage and check ground at B/W and Y wires. If voltage cannot be measured or ground is not present, problem is on Logicon side.
If motor attempts to move, but cannot, check for stuck heater valve and/or binding linkage.
Now check resistance of Br/R and Lg/r at the air mix actuator harness. Resistance should change according to position of air mix temperature door.If actuator still does not operate properly or fail checks listed above, replace actuator with new one.
NOTE:
The air mix actuator will not operate properly or can be damaged if any of the following occur:1. Mis-aligned, improperly positioned, or bent rod links
2. Sticking water valve
3. Improper attachment of electrical connector.
Also remember that possible damage to the Logicon itself may result from feedback due to conditions listed above. In such a case, a damaged Logicon is merely a symptom, not necessarily a cause of the problem. Replacement of the Logicon without further checks of the system may only result in another damaged Logicon.
If the three areas check out "good", the problem is elsewhere in the system. Check resistor, blower, etc. according to procedures listed in the Workshop Manual.
Notes
Category Applicable Model/s Subject Bulletin No. 056/88
15 1986-1988 RX-7 HEATER & A/C SYSTEM REPAIR Issued 1/13/88
Revised
DESCRIPTION
There are three basic areas to check if this system is malfunctioning:
1. Logicon Unit Check with Logicon Checker and voltmeter.
2. Heater Amp Control Box Check according to Service Bulletin, Category 15, No .037/86.
3. Motorized Actuators (air mix. mode control, REC-Fresh) Check using Ohmmeter, voltmeter and physical inspection.
Since the Logicon unit is often replaced when the actual problem is elsewhere in the system, be sure to check all three major areas BEFORE replacing the Logicon.
1. CHECKING THE LOGICON
IMPORTANT NOTE:
The Logicon Checker tests only the Logicon, and will NOT indicate problems in the actuators or heater amp control box. Nor will this checker indicate problems with signals going to the actuators.
The Logicon can be checked using the Logicon Checker and voltmeter as per procedures listed in the Workshop Manual. However, some problems with the system often are NOT caused by the Logicon unit itself. Actuator problems, etc. possibly may feed back into the Logicon and cause damage. In such cases, a damaged Logicon may be a symptom, but not the real cause of the problem. Therefore, before replacing a Logicon, check other areas of the system.
Signals sent to the actuators from the Logicon are simply either 12 volts or ground. The 12V signal starts whenever a button or lever is moved. For example, signals to the air mix actuator must be checked while moving the temperature control lever. Once the actuator reaches the proper position, the signal stops. (However, if the temperature control lever is at the highest or lowest position, the 12V signal continues to be sent to the actuator.) These signals can be checked with a voltmeter or test light. Ideally, a polarity tester which indicates whether current or ground exists may also be used.
(See Pic 1)
The main connector to the Logicon unit is located under the trim panel at the inside base of the windshield. This connector can be reached easier and faster by removing the trim panel.
(See Pic 2)
2. CHECKING THE HEATER AMP CONTROL BOX
The time to check the heater amp control is when there is a problem with blower speed during heater or A/C operation. The heater amp control box attaches onto the Logicon unit itself. Therefore, to reach the amp control box, you must remove the Logicon unit.
[Complaint] Blower fan does not go to full high speed or speed is too slow or operation is erratic.
[Check/Repair] Replace heater amp control as per Service Bulletin, Category 15, No .037/86.
(See Pic 3)
3. CHECKING THE AIR MIX ACTUATOR
The air mix actuator connector can be reached from under the dashboard, to the left of the center console. This actuator is a combination servo motor and position sensor. The actuator "parks" at certain positions based on the position of the temperature control slide lever. If the links to the actuator are bent, restricted or attached in the wrong position, the actuator may be prevented from stopping at the proper position, thus resulting in internal damage. Proper positions can be verified as per workshop manual procedures. The G/W and Y wires alternately provide power and ground from the Logicon to operate the servo. The remaining 3 wires send signals to the Logicon according to the position of the air mix temperature door.
[Complaint 1] A/C operates normally, but suddenly goes to heat. May return back to A/C again for no apparent reason (without touching controls). May occur either intermittently or on a regular basis. Also may occur in opposite (heater to A/C).
[Check/Repair 1] Check air mix actuator, connector, actuator link. Be sure link and heater water valve do not restrict actuator movement. If above factors check "good" but problem persists, problem may be internal. Replace the actuator with the new one.
[Complaint 2] Air volume is correct and comes out of proper opening, but is not heated properly or is always hot.
[Check/Repair 2] Check the following:1. Air mix actuator
2. Rod links
3. Water valve
4. Clearance of wires
Be sure air mix moves heater water valve while the temperature control lever is moved. If movement is correct, problem is likely either in heater valve, cooling system, or heater core. If movement is NOT correct, check connector, link, servo motor, etc. If actuator does NOT move, disconnect G-04 connector, jump 12V at the motor side to B/W terminal and ground Y terminal (then reverse ground and power). If the motor is good, it should operate in one direction and reverse as 12V and ground are reversed at the terminals.
At the harness side connector, measure voltage and check ground at B/W and Y wires. If voltage cannot be measured or ground is not present, problem is on Logicon side.
If motor attempts to move, but cannot, check for stuck heater valve and/or binding linkage.
Now check resistance of Br/R and Lg/r at the air mix actuator harness. Resistance should change according to position of air mix temperature door.If actuator still does not operate properly or fail checks listed above, replace actuator with new one.
NOTE:
The air mix actuator will not operate properly or can be damaged if any of the following occur:1. Mis-aligned, improperly positioned, or bent rod links
2. Sticking water valve
3. Improper attachment of electrical connector.
Also remember that possible damage to the Logicon itself may result from feedback due to conditions listed above. In such a case, a damaged Logicon is merely a symptom, not necessarily a cause of the problem. Replacement of the Logicon without further checks of the system may only result in another damaged Logicon.
If the three areas check out "good", the problem is elsewhere in the system. Check resistor, blower, etc. according to procedures listed in the Workshop Manual.
04-21-08, 11:46 PM
#204
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Receiver Dryer - Replacement Criteria
Notes
Bulletin No.: 001/95
Issued: 2/15/95
Revised:
Applicable Model/s
See Below
Subject:
RECEIVER DRIER REPLACEMENT CRITERIA
WHEN REPLACING OTHER A/C COMPONENTS
APPLICABLE MODELS/VINS
All models equipped with R12 and R134a (Except Navajo and 1994 and later B-Series vehicles).
DESCRIPTION
The following information is designed to assist dealers in determining when to replace the receiver-drier when replacing other A/C components. Do not replace the receiver-drier unless the following criteria has been met.
RECEIVER-DRIER REPLACEMENT CRITERIA WHEN REPLACING OTHER A/C SYSTEM COMPONENTS:
Replace the receiver-drier when the A/C system has been ruptured and ALL system pressure is lost.
(See Pic 1)
Receiver-drier will require replacement if the compressor oil becomes discolored or foreign substances become visible as indicated in the flow chart.
If an A/C component has failed, extract the compressor oil from the failed part and inspect the oil according to the procedure. Follow the procedure to determine if the receiver-drier requires replacement as a precaution.
CAUTION : Before charging, always evacuate the A/C system thoroughly to remove air and moisture. Use a vacuum pump to evacuate the system. Hold vacuum at 29 inches (740 mm Hg) for 5 - 10 minutes
Notes
Bulletin No.: 001/95
Issued: 2/15/95
Revised:
Applicable Model/s
See Below
Subject:
RECEIVER DRIER REPLACEMENT CRITERIA
WHEN REPLACING OTHER A/C COMPONENTS
APPLICABLE MODELS/VINS
All models equipped with R12 and R134a (Except Navajo and 1994 and later B-Series vehicles).
DESCRIPTION
The following information is designed to assist dealers in determining when to replace the receiver-drier when replacing other A/C components. Do not replace the receiver-drier unless the following criteria has been met.
RECEIVER-DRIER REPLACEMENT CRITERIA WHEN REPLACING OTHER A/C SYSTEM COMPONENTS:
Replace the receiver-drier when the A/C system has been ruptured and ALL system pressure is lost.
(See Pic 1)
Receiver-drier will require replacement if the compressor oil becomes discolored or foreign substances become visible as indicated in the flow chart.
If an A/C component has failed, extract the compressor oil from the failed part and inspect the oil according to the procedure. Follow the procedure to determine if the receiver-drier requires replacement as a precaution.
CAUTION : Before charging, always evacuate the A/C system thoroughly to remove air and moisture. Use a vacuum pump to evacuate the system. Hold vacuum at 29 inches (740 mm Hg) for 5 - 10 minutes
04-21-08, 11:47 PM
#205
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A/C Refrigerant - Recommendations
Notes
Bulletin No.: 009/96
Issued: 10/21/96
Revised:
CategoryU
Applicable Model/s
All Models
Subject:
USE OF R-12 REFRIGERANT SUBSTITUTES
APPLICABLE MODELS
All Models
DESCRIPTION
Mazda Corporation does not approve of using substitute R-12 refrigerants when an A/C system requires charging.
Use of these products may result in component damage and loss of warranty.
If service is required on a vehicle with an R-12 system, use only new or known good recycled refrigerant.
NOTE: A/C systems designed to operate on R-12 can be recharged using only HFC-134a.
Using R-12 substitutes may result in a hazardous condition and/or A/C component damage.
Notes
Bulletin No.: 009/96
Issued: 10/21/96
Revised:
CategoryU
Applicable Model/s
All Models
Subject:
USE OF R-12 REFRIGERANT SUBSTITUTES
APPLICABLE MODELS
All Models
DESCRIPTION
Mazda Corporation does not approve of using substitute R-12 refrigerants when an A/C system requires charging.
Use of these products may result in component damage and loss of warranty.
If service is required on a vehicle with an R-12 system, use only new or known good recycled refrigerant.
NOTE: A/C systems designed to operate on R-12 can be recharged using only HFC-134a.
Using R-12 substitutes may result in a hazardous condition and/or A/C component damage.
04-21-08, 11:54 PM
#206
The only thing I would say about the R-12 substitute TSB's is that they were issued in '96. New R-12 substitutes have come out in the market and work well with the old R-12 system in the RX-7. R-134a on the other hand overtaxes the A/C system, especially in hotter, humid climates.
Ideally, the best recharge is R-12. Barring that, Freeze-12 seems to work well, better than R-134a at least.
Ideally, the best recharge is R-12. Barring that, Freeze-12 seems to work well, better than R-134a at least.
04-22-08, 06:21 AM
#207
The only thing I would say about the R-12 substitute TSB's is that they were issued in '96. New R-12 substitutes have come out in the market and work well with the old R-12 system in the RX-7. R-134a on the other hand overtaxes the A/C system, especially in hotter, humid climates.
Ideally, the best recharge is R-12. Barring that, Freeze-12 seems to work well, better than R-134a at least.
Ideally, the best recharge is R-12. Barring that, Freeze-12 seems to work well, better than R-134a at least.
If I was going to use a substitute, I would use freeze12. This would likely only be a temporary situation, as in when I have a known leak and don't want to waste my precious R12.
If R12 became unavailable, I would do a proper 134a conversion complete with highpressure switch and a parallel flow condenser. I have personally never done this but I have friends that have and it works quite well. It just cost more than using R12 because of the investment in new parts.
The problem with substitutes is top offs. Since Freeze12 is a blend any leaks/seeps will likely change the composition of the blend. When you top off, the blend is different. Believe me, there is a lot of research and science in compostion of Freeze12. Your performance will be reduced after a couple of top offs. How much? Who knows, but it is real.
So on a system that requires top offs, the system should be vacuumed and a fresh
charge of freeze12 installed after a couple of top offs.
05-16-08, 05:48 PM
#208
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....If anyone can help. I am able to pull good vacuum on the low side but I am unable to pull a vacuum on the high side. I charged the system with a can on 134a (it's a retrofit) with the UV dye mixed in to about 50 psi (with the car off), I found no leaks. Any suggestions? I would think that 50 psi would be enough to show a leak when it can't even get down to a high vacuum. Does it sometimes take forever for the high side to vacuum down?
05-16-08, 06:04 PM
#209
....If anyone can help. I am able to pull good vacuum on the low side but I am unable to pull a vacuum on the high side. I charged the system with a can on 134a (it's a retrofit) with the UV dye mixed in to about 50 psi (with the car off), I found no leaks. Any suggestions? I would think that 50 psi would be enough to show a leak when it can't even get down to a high vacuum. Does it sometimes take forever for the high side to vacuum down?
Keep in mind that if you are using set of gauges with high and low side dials, the high side dial does not read a vacuum. The high side never operates at a vacuum, so there is no need for the gauge to read vacuum. When servicing the system it is only necessary to read a vacuum on the low side gauge. This is because there is no separation between the high and low. It is permissible to pull the vacuum from both access ports, but you will not read a vacuum on a gauge that doesn't contain a vacuum scale.
On the same note, if the compressor is not running, the pressure will be exactly the same on the high and low side, (unless it just shut off and the pressures have not yet equalized).
05-16-08, 06:04 PM
#210
....If anyone can help. I am able to pull good vacuum on the low side but I am unable to pull a vacuum on the high side. I charged the system with a can on 134a (it's a retrofit) with the UV dye mixed in to about 50 psi (with the car off), I found no leaks. Any suggestions? I would think that 50 psi would be enough to show a leak when it can't even get down to a high vacuum. Does it sometimes take forever for the high side to vacuum down?
06-29-08, 08:33 PM
#211
How about a little help and in the process, help the AC thread with an answer to this question please.
We know the 2nd gen has 2 manufacturers of the AC compressors...nippondenso and Sanden. My question is the Sanden compressor for an 86-88 the same as a sanden compressor for an 89 to 91 FC? Same part number? Same goes for the nippondenso? SAme part number for all years?
Tim
We know the 2nd gen has 2 manufacturers of the AC compressors...nippondenso and Sanden. My question is the Sanden compressor for an 86-88 the same as a sanden compressor for an 89 to 91 FC? Same part number? Same goes for the nippondenso? SAme part number for all years?
Tim
06-30-08, 12:18 AM
#212
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im not sure if the s5 and s4 sandens are different, because ive never owned or worked on an s4's AC but the model number of my s5 sanden is a 708, "Sanden 708" is the model number wich is a 7 piston compresor, however i have seen 5 piston sandens in S5s wich are "sanden 508"
06-30-08, 09:55 PM
#213
Gonna answer a few questions that came up with good old recycled knowledge. So if I post anything wrong I apologize and blame whoever I heard it from:
What do I get in Canada?
HC-12 is legal there. It's a mix of propane and butane. Some people complain about it not working in certain conditions. Maybe it was high humidity, I forget. Look it up and decide for yourself.
Do I have to evacuate the system first? Some people don't.
If your system is running fine but not quite as cold as it could be, you can often get away with just a recharge. With anything worse there's likely to be air in your system and you must vacuum it first, or AC performance will be lousy.
R-134a: It's fine to put R-134a in the system. Problems arise when there's nothing else left, since R-134a won't distribute oil designed for R-12. No oil = compressor failure. Also see the many comments in this thread. But short answer is that it's not ideal and you shouldn't bother with it.
Freeze-12: Plenty of people have used it with great success. I'm sure it's not a real problem for Freeze-12 to be 80% R-134a, as adding 20% of something could change the properties in any number of ways. And distribute the oil, too.
What if my car runs hotter? Am I putting the motor in danger? The temp gauge on the s4 is very sensitive. I think 1/4 is about 180F and 3/4 is about 205-210F. Some cars have thermostats set at 200F, and I used to have an FC that often ran at 3/4 for months. I'd work on your cooling system eventually but wouldn't worry about it in the mean time. Still pull over immediately if you're about to overheat, or your engine will be toast. Rebuilds are around $3k.
How long does it take for AC to get the car cold? After my last flush/recharge it took a few minutes to get my car cold on a hot day, even on a cold start.
What do I get in Canada?
HC-12 is legal there. It's a mix of propane and butane. Some people complain about it not working in certain conditions. Maybe it was high humidity, I forget. Look it up and decide for yourself.
Do I have to evacuate the system first? Some people don't.
If your system is running fine but not quite as cold as it could be, you can often get away with just a recharge. With anything worse there's likely to be air in your system and you must vacuum it first, or AC performance will be lousy.
R-134a: It's fine to put R-134a in the system. Problems arise when there's nothing else left, since R-134a won't distribute oil designed for R-12. No oil = compressor failure. Also see the many comments in this thread. But short answer is that it's not ideal and you shouldn't bother with it.
Freeze-12: Plenty of people have used it with great success. I'm sure it's not a real problem for Freeze-12 to be 80% R-134a, as adding 20% of something could change the properties in any number of ways. And distribute the oil, too.
What if my car runs hotter? Am I putting the motor in danger? The temp gauge on the s4 is very sensitive. I think 1/4 is about 180F and 3/4 is about 205-210F. Some cars have thermostats set at 200F, and I used to have an FC that often ran at 3/4 for months. I'd work on your cooling system eventually but wouldn't worry about it in the mean time. Still pull over immediately if you're about to overheat, or your engine will be toast. Rebuilds are around $3k.
How long does it take for AC to get the car cold? After my last flush/recharge it took a few minutes to get my car cold on a hot day, even on a cold start.
07-01-08, 08:25 PM
#214
im not sure if the s5 and s4 sandens are different, because ive never owned or worked on an s4's AC but the model number of my s5 sanden is a 708, "Sanden 708" is the model number wich is a 7 piston compresor, however i have seen 5 piston sandens in S5s wich are "sanden 508"
Tim
07-01-08, 09:15 PM
#215
I think I found a little more more info.
I found this on e-bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...062194814&rd=1
The auction says its for an 86-88 RX-7. When I e-mailed him concerning it, he wa snice enough to respond and say it's a SD 708 with a single hose connection off the back as you can see in the pic. I took my locked up compressor off and it was an SD 708 as well but has 2 bolt hose connection off the back.
Tim
I found this on e-bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...062194814&rd=1
The auction says its for an 86-88 RX-7. When I e-mailed him concerning it, he wa snice enough to respond and say it's a SD 708 with a single hose connection off the back as you can see in the pic. I took my locked up compressor off and it was an SD 708 as well but has 2 bolt hose connection off the back.
Tim
07-22-08, 10:12 PM
#216
round and round we go
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Vail, CO
Posts: 12
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in same boat... tired of sweatin
NEWB HERE...
I'm not getting 12v to the compressor and I just stuck the wire from the battery onto the compressor lead and the clutch kicked in and it started moving! I left it on there a little longer than 30 secs just to see if it would work and I'm pretty sure it was blowing colder air. I didn't want to fry the system so I took it off again, but now I don't know why it isn't getting enough juice to start it. I hooked the voltmeter on the lead going to the compressor and it only had 0.6v going to it when the A/C switch was ON, and like 0.2v when it was OFF. I don't think that a fuse is blown because I'm getting a reading at all. I checked the refrigerant pressure and it seems to be within the proper working range. SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM!!! My friend who sold me it says it might be the logitec a/c control but I'm a crappy electrician so I can't trace it very well. Help please.
I'm not getting 12v to the compressor and I just stuck the wire from the battery onto the compressor lead and the clutch kicked in and it started moving! I left it on there a little longer than 30 secs just to see if it would work and I'm pretty sure it was blowing colder air. I didn't want to fry the system so I took it off again, but now I don't know why it isn't getting enough juice to start it. I hooked the voltmeter on the lead going to the compressor and it only had 0.6v going to it when the A/C switch was ON, and like 0.2v when it was OFF. I don't think that a fuse is blown because I'm getting a reading at all. I checked the refrigerant pressure and it seems to be within the proper working range. SO WHAT'S WRONG WITH THE SYSTEM!!! My friend who sold me it says it might be the logitec a/c control but I'm a crappy electrician so I can't trace it very well. Help please.
07-22-08, 10:29 PM
#217
Eats, Sleeps, Dreams Rotary
My A/C runs fine with HFC-134A but for the second time I've had one of the lines pop open on very hot days... it's not a very secure line because the threads don't go that far and you can't tighten it very hard, so I guess I need to use some lightweight thread locker, or safety wire, but is there any danger that this will damage the system? I imagine if the same joint has failed both times, and not a hose, that the system can handle the extra pressure, but I want to make sure.
08-24-10, 07:32 AM
#221
Hope in a Can
Same principle as-Riselone, Silver Seal, Trans-Medic. Treats the symptoms temporarily but you still have the problem at the end of the day.
Here is the downside: If you add the stuff, then the system later becomes open to the atmosphere then entire dose turns to crud inside your system.
Best just to fix any leaks.
Good Luck.
Same principle as-Riselone, Silver Seal, Trans-Medic. Treats the symptoms temporarily but you still have the problem at the end of the day.
Here is the downside: If you add the stuff, then the system later becomes open to the atmosphere then entire dose turns to crud inside your system.
Best just to fix any leaks.
Good Luck.
08-24-10, 01:47 PM
#222
Good to know. I've got a big leak in my system i believe, pulled vacuum with a 2 stage pump, and when I closed the low side valve on the gauges, the needle goes back to 0 at a pretty good rate. The high side does the same thing, only faster. I don't think the Super Seal remotely comes close to fixing it. I'm using Freeze 12 if that matters.
Is there a reasonably priced leak test I can perform to find the leak? I just purchased the o-ring kit and new (correct) drier.
Everything in the system is good, except this damned leak!
Is there a reasonably priced leak test I can perform to find the leak? I just purchased the o-ring kit and new (correct) drier.
Everything in the system is good, except this damned leak!
08-24-10, 06:04 PM
#223
Good to know. I've got a big leak in my system i believe, pulled vacuum with a 2 stage pump, and when I closed the low side valve on the gauges, the needle goes back to 0 at a pretty good rate. The high side does the same thing, only faster. I don't think the Super Seal remotely comes close to fixing it. I'm using Freeze 12 if that matters.
Is there a reasonably priced leak test I can perform to find the leak? I just purchased the o-ring kit and new (correct) drier.
Everything in the system is good, except this damned leak!
Is there a reasonably priced leak test I can perform to find the leak? I just purchased the o-ring kit and new (correct) drier.
Everything in the system is good, except this damned leak!
My personal method: I pressurize the system to around 300psi with Nitrogen. I can hear the leak. Soapy water spray bottle will confirm.
Another way is to pressurize with some refrigerant then use a spray bottle of soapy liquid to squirt on suspected places. Bubbles will form at the leak. This works pretty well.
Just remember to use the soapy water bottle only when you are dealing with pressure never when are using a vacuum. Don't want the soapy water sucked into the system, eh?
You can rent a leak detection kit from Autozone. It has a UV light, special goggles. Then you use some leak detection dye added to refrigerant. The dye will show up at the leak point. Problem with this method is that the dye is pretty easily spread around making it hard to pinpoint the source if you have multiple leaks or one BIG leak.