DigitalSpeed

First the specs

1988 GXL
1.3L non-turbo
manual trans (don't think that matters with my problem)

If you need any more info, just let me know

Anyway, I was doing a 134a retrofit (removing dash, all lines), cleaning out the lines, new compressor, dryer, expansion valve...Anyways, I got everything back together, just got though keeping the system under vacuum, and the car started ok. I let it run for about 4 min. and when I got back in the car to give it a little gas, it just died and I have been unable to get it to start since.

I run pre-mix at about a 1oz. per gallon ratio, so I though after sitting almost 2 weeks the 2-stroke oil might have separated. So I pulled the fuel pump out to look at the fuel and the 2-stroke is still well mixed. Ok, so then I checked the resistance of my tsp sensor, works fine. Then I pulled the plugs (smelled a bit like fuel) so I did the un-flooding procedure, still won't start. So I then checked all my electrical and vacuum connections, but the thing is, I never really unplugged much of anything related to the running of the engine when I was working on the AC. I did however hollow-out my 2 pre-cats, but left the main cat intact. I though for some reason the main cat might be clogged, so I unbolted and removed one of the pre-cats closest to the engine, still won't start. (BTW, before I embarked on the AC project, the engine ran perfect, no problems what so ever) I also had my dad try to turn over the engine with one of the spark plugs removed, and the compression seemed consistent, but I have yet to test it with my compression gauge. Also when it tries to start, fuel-smelling smoke (a pretty good amount) comes out the exhaust.

Engine info:

about 124,000 miles on odometer

I am not the original owner, but I don't think the engine has had a rebuild. It has not given me any problems until now. I run Mobil 1 15w-50, change the oil every 3000 miles, run an K&N oil filter, and recently did a coolant flush (I have done a total of 3 coolant flushes since I bought the car about a year ago) and the coolant is very clean. No mods on engine or really on the entire car.

I guess that's about it. If you need more info or pics, just let me know. I really need and appreciate any and all help.

Craiger

iTrader: (1)

Sounds flooded to me. Remove spark plugs, the 2 fuses closest to the engine in the main fuse block (one is the EGI fuse and i'm having the brain fart right now and can't remember what the other one is, INJ maybe), crank the engine for 10 seconds at a time until more more fuel vapour comes out of the spark plug holes, put about a table spoon of oil in each leading plug hole, replace spark plugs with new ones, put your fuses back in and start her up.

Icemark

flooded... follow the unflooding procedure found in the FAQ for FC sticky thread

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I prefer a different de-flood procedure.... Get on your back & look under the dash board by the steering column. There is a yellow or possibly white connector there with 5 wires. This is your fuel pump relay connector. Hold down the locking tab & pull the connector apart. Sit up & floor the throttle pedal & turn the key to start. The engine should stumble after a few(10-20 sec. max) moments. Turn key to off. Reconnect the plug under the dash. Put throttle to floor. Start car. the idea is to eliminate excess fuel while retaining the spark. With the pedal to the floor the OMP will pump in some oil while cranking. I installed a switch I can manually operate to prevent flooding & have never been stranded since. I'm sure someone will disagree, but its easy to try.

Ramses666

Icemark

If you follow the first part of the unflooding procedure found in the FAQ for FC (and the owners manual) you don't have to unplug of disconnect anything 99% of the time.

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

Woah Nelly! It seems to me that just unplugging one connector is easier than removing spark plugs and putting oil into the spark plug holes as described in the FAQ. What would be the harm in trying? Why crank the motor over with the fuses removed? To run out the excess fuel? Hello... why not eliminate the fuel & keep the spark without pulling plugs. The S4 OMP will put some oil in there - how much I don't know. What I DO KNOW is that by controlling the fuel my car never floods anymore. I still carry a bottle of ATF with a hose but have NEVER had to use it again since I put a switch on my fuel pump relay and use it turn off the fuel pump before turning off the ignition key switch. Taking out spark plugs & such as described in the FAQ is not practical in everyday life.

Ramses666

w0ppe

If you ever move the RX-7 or such without letting it get to operating temp or just go down the street and not flood it, you should follow this procedure: (Thanks brother!)

When you get to a stopping point, E-brake or Park it
Neutral (If plausible)
Then, rev the vehicle to about 3000 RPM and turn the car off while holding it
The extra revs should be able to spit out any excess fuel and thus, no flooding!

ramses666

iTrader: (1)

I can start & drive or run my 7 with any stage of warmness & any distance with zero problems by having a fuel pump relay switch and using it to turn off the fuel pump before turning off ignition & letting the car run the fuel pressure out of the system. It really does work. No more flooding EVER!!!! Sometimes it won't catch when starting so I turn the fuel pump off till it cranks. Try it. It cost less than 5$ and takes less than 5 minutes to install. I wouldn't preach if it didn't make a GIANT difference. Just go ahead & keep pulling your plugs or pumping ATF or waiting an hour or wasting gas letting it warm up - your loss. I'm just sharing information that made my life easier.

Ramses666

Icemark

No, you didn't read. Why didn't you read???

As a refresher:
and since you didn't read that, you probably didn't read the FAQ for FC or Owners manual (both of which says):
All fuel injected cars do this (while it is even more important on a rotary powered car to do).

Hold the pedal all the way down while cranking without pumping the pedal, and the car will clear the flood.

See on the S4, this allows the maximum possible air into the engine as well as opening the MOP to full on position, dumping the maximum possible amount of oil into the engine to help re-seal the apex seals.

On the S5 it does that, but also kills the fuel injection, further limiting the amount of fuel getting into the engine.

Now you are going to be dumb and tell me that, that method (the factory recommended way to clear a flooded engine) is worse and harder than reaching under the dash and having to unplug and replug things?

Give me a funking break.

Do it the right way first. Then you can do the mumbo jumbo crap of unplugging or pulling spark plugs or any of that other crap that only idiots that didn't read the owners manual do. Hell half the time when people pull spark plugs and clean them, the plugs needed to be replaced in a tune up anyway.

ah man, more bad info??? Come on!

A fuel pump kill switch???? Come on... fix the car; don't bust it further.

Flooding is a result of bad tuning, or poor compression, or bad injectors, or a bad ECU. So you are telling this poor kid to put in a band aid over a major issue, because you did?

Fix the bloody car. If you need a tune up, get it done. If you have poor compression, rebuild the motor; if you have a leaking injector, replace it; if you have a bad ECU replace it (they are only like $25 on ebay). Putting a band aid like a fuel kill switch is like you have a cut off finger and holding it on with a band aid and hoping it will re-attach.

So... let me tell you why shutting the engine off with a fuel kill switch is bad.

First, at start up and idle, the only lubricant that the apex seals is getting, is provided by the fuel. Yep the gasoline acts like a lubricant (and one of the reasons that the FB and FC run so rich when starting and at idle). So by killing the fuel to shut down the engine, you are effectively removing any lubricant to the apex seals.

But wait, it gets worse... then when you re-start the car, the fuel has to travel all the way from the back of the car (instead of already being pressurized in the line running all the way to the injectors) up... so now you are starting the car with a longer crank period (because the fuel is not there) and again you are cranking with no lubricant on the apex seals.

This sounds like something that someone that rebuilds engines would say to do... so he can get more work.

Fix the car, don't bust it further.

Icemark

NO NO NO NO...

This too is just an old wives tale. Probably one of the worst things to do to the engine.

You peak the engine temp and dump all that heat into the oil and coolant that is just sitting there.

Good way to cut your oil (and engine life) in half.

No wonder there are so many people here with blown engines, if they follow the crap suggested in this thread.

pfsantos

iTrader: (1)

Ramses - the primary method of deflooding is to remove the EGI fuse and crank with WOT. Removing the fuse actually prevents the injectors from firing. Only if that doesn't work, you move on to the 'very flooded' procedure you referred to about removing spark plugs, etc.

Unplugging the Circuit Opening Relay basically shuts off the fuel pump, not the injectors. The car runs until the fuel rail pressure cannot provide enough fuel for the injectors to keep the engine alive. This method works as far as preventing flooding is concerned, but is not a de-flooding procedure per say, even though it can work. It is especially useful for those with leaking injectors.

DigitalSpeed

Update:

(I really appreciate all the responses thus far)

Ok, I did the un-flooding procedure and got it to start, but it ran terribly. Almost sounded like only one or two of the plugs were firing and it still had alot of smoke coming out the exhaust. The engine also shook terribly. I had to hold the throttle partially open too keep it from dying. I then pulled the plugs again and the had even more fuel on them. Any suggestions? Do you think my ignition is ok? Do you think I cleaned the plugs as well as I should have?

DigitalSpeed

Update 2

I did a compression check, and both rotors have compression around 110 psi.

fragtag

Double check for vacuum leaks and replace the plugs (Since we cannot guess the age of the plugs). I had a terrible engine shake that was being caused by a vacuum leak. As soon as I fixed it and replaced the plugs, everything ran as it should.

DigitalSpeed

The plugs are less than a year old, the wires are also less than a year old. The wires are Mazdatrix wires. I did check the resistance on the coil packs, and the all read 0 ohms, I know it's supposed to be between 1 and 0.2, but, why would both of them go out, do you think it;s just my digital multi-meter? Is there another way to test the coils? I bought one of those in-line spark testers, but it might be a piece of crap.

Craiger

iTrader: (1)

Your coils are either shorted out or, more likely, you have your multimeter set to the wrong position. If you have it set on a 2k or 20k setting, move it to a 200ohm or something similar and try again.

DigitalSpeed

But is there another way to test the coils? How would the coils be shorted out? I want to be sure it's the coils because aren't they expensive as hell?

Also, do they sell plugs anywhere else other than the dealership or the internet? The plugs that are in there I had to order from Mazdatrix.

Craiger

iTrader: (1)

Based on the fact that your car starts, your coils are probably fine, which is why I said more than likely you errored in testing with the multimeter. If you want to test the coils, pull one spark plug wire off the plug, put any spark plug in it, ground the thread to the engine and have a friend crank the car. If you see a spark, the coil works.

Icemark

If the trailing coils are bad, you won't have a tach signal on the dash.

If the leading coil is bad, the car won't start.

FC Coils almost never fail.

On each face you got 110?

DigitalSpeed

The front rotor I got about 110 on each face and the rear rotor I got about 100 on each face.

Icemark

Still decent numbers... a little low, but probably not enough to consider a rebuild for quite a while.

Look at a sticking/worn out/clogged injector too, if you can't get the problem cleared, and don't forget to change your oil.

DigitalSpeed

on a side note, what does this plug into

DigitalSpeed

The only way I know how to test an injector is to listen to it with my stethescope, but I would have to get the car running first. How would you go about checking the injectors or can they be tested at all?

DigitalSpeed

problem solved!!!! The Mass airflow sensor door was stuck wide open!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks for the help guys, I owe you one.

Is there anyway to lubricate that little door so this does not happen again?

Craiger

iTrader: (1)

That is a Tach output lead for hooking up an external Tach. Yes it is a black wire making it almost look like a ground, but DO NOT under any circumstances hook it up to ground!!! A local shop did that to my car back in November and I am still fighting with them to replace my coil which the cooked!!!