How does having a standalone make it so you dont need an AFM? How dose it know how much air is being sucked into the engine? If thers a post on this feel free to direct.

 

Most use a MAP sensor. (manifold air pressure)

 

I thought all cars had a MAP sensor anyway...why doesnt the stock ecu run of that?

 

Yep, we do have a pressure sensor, but our ECU doesnt use it to calculate airflow, it uses the airflow sensor for that. Its just the way the FB/FC ECU is designed. The FD doesnt use a AFM.

 

hm ok thx...What a gay design.

 

Be careful what you call gay...

One big advantage of the AFM design is that it always knows how much air is being ingested into the engine.
This allows you to increase engine efficiency or elevate boost, and the AFM will compensate for the increased air flow.

If you are using just a MAP sensor for load, increasing engine efficiency doesn't automatically mean the stock ECU will know it's sucking in more air.
This is one of the big reasons why FD's tend to blow up when you do too much mods to them.

Although most stand-alone EMS units use MAP sensors are primary load sensors, changing any part of the engine that changes the engine efficiency will almost always require you to retune the fuel and ignition maps for best power.
So...for example, if you change turbo, the maps need to be retuned.


-Ted

 

yep

that's why i'm trapped at 10psi on the stock FD, yet my FC can run 12psi.

 

Ah ok thanks for the indepth explanation. I didnt know there was such an advantage to the AFM, so i called it gay

 

Are there any stand alones that use a hot-wire MAF?

 

I'm curious about the possibility of running a hotwire MAF as well. Mostly because I heard that there might be issues with throttle lag on an N/A with no MAF. Can anyone confirm either?

 

I bet a MoTeC can do it, but that's like a $4k set-up.
Almost all the other cheaper, entry-level stand-alone EMS units are all MAP sensor primary load based - Microtech, Haltech, Electromotive TEC3, Wolf 3D...


-Ted

 

There are stock NA cars that run MAP ecu's so i'd expect it to be not to bad

 

From reading the manual, the Wolf V4 can use MAP, MAF and TPOS as the primary load sensor.

 

Seems like Wolf is the way to go then. They're not much more then a microtech right?

 

Not sure...I'm not well versed in MAP vs MAF. I'm used to a MAP EMS, so I doubt I would convert.

Nah, the V4 Wolf is a lot more expensive than the Microtech...its like $1600US.

 

I would also like to point out that the main reason most vehicle manufacturers use an AFM/MAF setup is because since it measures the airflow, it is able to compensate for engine wear to a certain degree. This means less maintenance, which gives them a better rating in Consumer Reports.

I can't speak for the other EMS products, but there is no lag when using a Wolf3D EMS in speed-density mode (MAP sensor) on an NA. I would imagine that the other EMS brands also work well in this mode. SPiN Racing (on this forum) has had great success setting up several NA 13B engines with the Wolf.

Yes, in theory, I agree that there should be some lag, especially when using a hose to feed the on-board MAP sensor. I can't tell you why this does not manifest itself in real life. It is possible that there is lag in the milliseconds, but the engine is absolutely more responsive than it is with the stock AFM/ECU setup, and it doesn't take any fancy equipment to know that.

Yes, but there is no wiring diagram for a MAF sensor, and I don't see any inputs/outputs for the Wolf to control one. I have a feeling that this is a software setting that doesn't yet have hardware support. Also note that an AFM is a type of MAF metering system, so "MAF" does not necessarily mean a hot wire sensor array if you are technical about things. I would ask the dealer before assuming the Wolf can run an MAF sensor. Quite honestly, given the great experience with the Wolf running off its included (free) MAP sensor, I don't see much point in spending money on a MAF sensor. It's similar to how the Wolf can run a 60-2 timing wheel just like the TEC3... but if the stock (free) CAS works just fine, then why bother?

Normally, yes. However, there is currently a group buy on the Wolf3D in which you can get the EMS and hand controller for $1050, which is even less than Microtech's base model EMS from this forum's RX-7 Store.
https://www.rx7club.com/group-buy-center-69/wolf-ems-group-buy-standalone-plug-n-play-units-%2A%2A%2A-updated-pricing-%2A%2A%2A-344621/

 

correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the APEXi power FC use both speed dens(MAP) or MAF??? depending one what your motor uses?

 

You have the answer to everything! Ok answer me this, in one paragraph or less, what should I replace my V3.1 with, a V4 or E6X...?

 

Doesn't "MAP" stand for Manifold absolute pressure?


-Justin

 

Yes, you get a cookie for being right.


-Ted

 

Can I get a cookie too??

 

-_-

 

It uses whatever the previous computer used (in the case of FD - the map system). So yes.

That's a large selling point to pfc is the "plug and play"

 

Evil Aviator and drago66: Thanks for the input! I don't hear about many NA guys running standalones for some reason...

 

Kahren is running a stock port N/a tuned via a Haltech E6K. The car is putting out somewhere around 180+ with the new header to the wheels. Let me reiterate. Stock Port, Naturally Aspirated, 180 to the wheels. That is nearly 30 more than a stock zenki TII puts out to the wheels.

--Fritz