No idle, heavily smoking, at a loss. Rotary noob.
11-05-22, 08:33 PM
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No idle, heavily smoking, at a loss. Rotary noob.
Hello!
I recently got myself my first rotary, a 87 turbo 2 shell, and a "rebuilt" motor from a third party seller with supposedly good compression with pictures to prove. I finally got the engine and harness installed after fighting with it for a while.
But now I'm having a good fair bit of issues. I did a few modifications and the car isn't 100% together either right now but I don't think it should affect it too much?.
Information about the car:
All new vacuum lines
Airpump, power steering and ac deleted.
EGR, BAC, ACV deleted. Everything on the upper manifold is deleted / blocked off.
Air bypass valve deleted ( idk if I can even delete this? )
Theromovalve deleted.
Catless downpipe
New spark plugs
Currently has no o2 sensor or intercooler. (IC shouldn't matter I think since its not building boost either way at idle)
Still have all the solenoids / most of the rats nest.
OMP not currently hooked up
Brand new 255 fuel pump
Pressure sensor not hooked up iirc.
Bypassed the fuel control valve thing in the engine bay and just have the pump hooked to steady 12v.
No coolant currently in it
Issues:
1, cranks, starts, but won't idle unless some tricks are used.
2, burns oil HEAVILY.
3, possible misfire?
1: I can't get the car the idle by itself properly. It will start with the AFM plugged in or unplugged, doesn't seem to affect much. As soon as I give it any amount of gas the car will die.
I can get the car to "idle" and rev freely (with small breakup around 2-3k rpm) if the AFM flap is held open while plugged in. I cannot get it to rev with it unplugged. TPS measures fine. Did not check CAS yet.
This currently is my biggest issue.
2: The car SMOKES, I know rotaries are more smokier then a pison engine, but this thing SMOKES. It filled my large shop up with blue smoke in under 20 seconds of run time. It's leaking oil from the downpipe where it connects to turbo, not leaking but rather peeing itself.
I know the previous owner had put pre mix in the motor and rotated it every week. I'm assuming this premix is the reason why it smokes, although in total the car has seen 10 minutes of run time so I think the premix should be burnt up by now.
The car never ran for more then 30 seconds at once.
3: The engine shakes on occasion, as if it was a misfire. I built an exhaust for it today so I can hear it better, but it sounds like a six cylinder engine running on five. It sounds like to me as if instead firing twice on one rotor it fires once.
This is most noticeable at higher RPM'S around 2-3k. I never got it over 3k rpm. It also hesitates at 2500 rpms, sounding like it has hit rev cut/ rev limiter.
I'm not one hundred perfect certain I hooked up all the vacuum lines correctly. I followed the factory manual although it was not the easiest since I deleted so many thing. I capped off every fitting that was deleted.
This is my first rotary car, I have zero clue what I'm truly doing but I'm having fun with it! Forums have been a huge help, so thank you
If any other information is needed to help better diag these issues please let me know.
I recently got myself my first rotary, a 87 turbo 2 shell, and a "rebuilt" motor from a third party seller with supposedly good compression with pictures to prove. I finally got the engine and harness installed after fighting with it for a while.
But now I'm having a good fair bit of issues. I did a few modifications and the car isn't 100% together either right now but I don't think it should affect it too much?.
Information about the car:
All new vacuum lines
Airpump, power steering and ac deleted.
EGR, BAC, ACV deleted. Everything on the upper manifold is deleted / blocked off.
Air bypass valve deleted ( idk if I can even delete this? )
Theromovalve deleted.
Catless downpipe
New spark plugs
Currently has no o2 sensor or intercooler. (IC shouldn't matter I think since its not building boost either way at idle)
Still have all the solenoids / most of the rats nest.
OMP not currently hooked up
Brand new 255 fuel pump
Pressure sensor not hooked up iirc.
Bypassed the fuel control valve thing in the engine bay and just have the pump hooked to steady 12v.
No coolant currently in it
Issues:
1, cranks, starts, but won't idle unless some tricks are used.
2, burns oil HEAVILY.
3, possible misfire?
1: I can't get the car the idle by itself properly. It will start with the AFM plugged in or unplugged, doesn't seem to affect much. As soon as I give it any amount of gas the car will die.
I can get the car to "idle" and rev freely (with small breakup around 2-3k rpm) if the AFM flap is held open while plugged in. I cannot get it to rev with it unplugged. TPS measures fine. Did not check CAS yet.
This currently is my biggest issue.
2: The car SMOKES, I know rotaries are more smokier then a pison engine, but this thing SMOKES. It filled my large shop up with blue smoke in under 20 seconds of run time. It's leaking oil from the downpipe where it connects to turbo, not leaking but rather peeing itself.
I know the previous owner had put pre mix in the motor and rotated it every week. I'm assuming this premix is the reason why it smokes, although in total the car has seen 10 minutes of run time so I think the premix should be burnt up by now.
The car never ran for more then 30 seconds at once.
3: The engine shakes on occasion, as if it was a misfire. I built an exhaust for it today so I can hear it better, but it sounds like a six cylinder engine running on five. It sounds like to me as if instead firing twice on one rotor it fires once.
This is most noticeable at higher RPM'S around 2-3k. I never got it over 3k rpm. It also hesitates at 2500 rpms, sounding like it has hit rev cut/ rev limiter.
I'm not one hundred perfect certain I hooked up all the vacuum lines correctly. I followed the factory manual although it was not the easiest since I deleted so many thing. I capped off every fitting that was deleted.
This is my first rotary car, I have zero clue what I'm truly doing but I'm having fun with it! Forums have been a huge help, so thank you
If any other information is needed to help better diag these issues please let me know.
The following users liked this post:
DR_Knight (11-06-22)
11-06-22, 01:43 PM
#3
Hello!
I recently got myself my first rotary, a 87 turbo 2 shell, and a "rebuilt" motor from a third party seller with supposedly good compression with pictures to prove. I finally got the engine and harness installed after fighting with it for a while.
But now I'm having a good fair bit of issues. I did a few modifications and the car isn't 100% together either right now but I don't think it should affect it too much?.
Information about the car:
All new vacuum lines
Airpump, power steering and ac deleted.
EGR, BAC, ACV deleted. Everything on the upper manifold is deleted / blocked off.
Air bypass valve deleted ( idk if I can even delete this? )
Theromovalve deleted.
Catless downpipe
New spark plugs
Currently has no o2 sensor or intercooler. (IC shouldn't matter I think since its not building boost either way at idle)
Still have all the solenoids / most of the rats nest.
OMP not currently hooked up
Brand new 255 fuel pump
Pressure sensor not hooked up iirc.
Bypassed the fuel control valve thing in the engine bay and just have the pump hooked to steady 12v.
No coolant currently in it
Issues:
1, cranks, starts, but won't idle unless some tricks are used.
2, burns oil HEAVILY.
3, possible misfire?
1: I can't get the car the idle by itself properly. It will start with the AFM plugged in or unplugged, doesn't seem to affect much. As soon as I give it any amount of gas the car will die.
I can get the car to "idle" and rev freely (with small breakup around 2-3k rpm) if the AFM flap is held open while plugged in. I cannot get it to rev with it unplugged. TPS measures fine. Did not check CAS yet.
This currently is my biggest issue.
2: The car SMOKES, I know rotaries are more smokier then a pison engine, but this thing SMOKES. It filled my large shop up with blue smoke in under 20 seconds of run time. It's leaking oil from the downpipe where it connects to turbo, not leaking but rather peeing itself.
I know the previous owner had put pre mix in the motor and rotated it every week. I'm assuming this premix is the reason why it smokes, although in total the car has seen 10 minutes of run time so I think the premix should be burnt up by now.
The car never ran for more then 30 seconds at once.
3: The engine shakes on occasion, as if it was a misfire. I built an exhaust for it today so I can hear it better, but it sounds like a six cylinder engine running on five. It sounds like to me as if instead firing twice on one rotor it fires once.
This is most noticeable at higher RPM'S around 2-3k. I never got it over 3k rpm. It also hesitates at 2500 rpms, sounding like it has hit rev cut/ rev limiter.
I'm not one hundred perfect certain I hooked up all the vacuum lines correctly. I followed the factory manual although it was not the easiest since I deleted so many thing. I capped off every fitting that was deleted.
This is my first rotary car, I have zero clue what I'm truly doing but I'm having fun with it! Forums have been a huge help, so thank you
If any other information is needed to help better diag these issues please let me know.
I recently got myself my first rotary, a 87 turbo 2 shell, and a "rebuilt" motor from a third party seller with supposedly good compression with pictures to prove. I finally got the engine and harness installed after fighting with it for a while.
But now I'm having a good fair bit of issues. I did a few modifications and the car isn't 100% together either right now but I don't think it should affect it too much?.
Information about the car:
All new vacuum lines
Airpump, power steering and ac deleted.
EGR, BAC, ACV deleted. Everything on the upper manifold is deleted / blocked off.
Air bypass valve deleted ( idk if I can even delete this? )
Theromovalve deleted.
Catless downpipe
New spark plugs
Currently has no o2 sensor or intercooler. (IC shouldn't matter I think since its not building boost either way at idle)
Still have all the solenoids / most of the rats nest.
OMP not currently hooked up
Brand new 255 fuel pump
Pressure sensor not hooked up iirc.
Bypassed the fuel control valve thing in the engine bay and just have the pump hooked to steady 12v.
No coolant currently in it
Issues:
1, cranks, starts, but won't idle unless some tricks are used.
2, burns oil HEAVILY.
3, possible misfire?
1: I can't get the car the idle by itself properly. It will start with the AFM plugged in or unplugged, doesn't seem to affect much. As soon as I give it any amount of gas the car will die.
I can get the car to "idle" and rev freely (with small breakup around 2-3k rpm) if the AFM flap is held open while plugged in. I cannot get it to rev with it unplugged. TPS measures fine. Did not check CAS yet.
This currently is my biggest issue.
2: The car SMOKES, I know rotaries are more smokier then a pison engine, but this thing SMOKES. It filled my large shop up with blue smoke in under 20 seconds of run time. It's leaking oil from the downpipe where it connects to turbo, not leaking but rather peeing itself.
I know the previous owner had put pre mix in the motor and rotated it every week. I'm assuming this premix is the reason why it smokes, although in total the car has seen 10 minutes of run time so I think the premix should be burnt up by now.
The car never ran for more then 30 seconds at once.
3: The engine shakes on occasion, as if it was a misfire. I built an exhaust for it today so I can hear it better, but it sounds like a six cylinder engine running on five. It sounds like to me as if instead firing twice on one rotor it fires once.
This is most noticeable at higher RPM'S around 2-3k. I never got it over 3k rpm. It also hesitates at 2500 rpms, sounding like it has hit rev cut/ rev limiter.
I'm not one hundred perfect certain I hooked up all the vacuum lines correctly. I followed the factory manual although it was not the easiest since I deleted so many thing. I capped off every fitting that was deleted.
This is my first rotary car, I have zero clue what I'm truly doing but I'm having fun with it! Forums have been a huge help, so thank you
If any other information is needed to help better diag these issues please let me know.
2. Put on the intercooler
3. Hook up your fuel pressure regulator. With a 255 pump and no regulator hooked up, your fuel pressure is probably way too high.
11-13-22, 12:17 AM
#4
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After putting the car back together, besides my O2 sensor which I am waiting on I'm still having the same issues. I did a boost leak test and fixed the ones I could find. I hooked up my fuel pressure regulator as well as previously mentioned, but to no luck the car still does not run. It simply fires up, and dies right after. The blue smoke continues as well. I tested another regulator as well from a spare I had and that did not help either.
I'm at a complete loss at this point, I'm not sure why I can't get the car to idle at all. Possible bad AFM? Would the car run without the AFM? I tried unplugging it and running it, although it ran a few seconds more, nothing good. Going to check over spark plugs tomorrow, maybe the heavily oil burning has fouled them. Still have not found a reason for it to smoke so much. Also if it would help, I can upload a video showing the issues / engine bay set up.
Things checked over:
Realigned CAS
Recalibrated TPS, no dead zones and reading good.
Boost leak tested
Also thinking of putting the car onto a standalone ECU as a last resort in order to "by-pass" AFM and other items. The car seems to die when it changes over from startup to running on it's sensor, if that's even a thing? I read a few forum posts on I saw it mentioned and it made sense.
I'm at a complete loss at this point, I'm not sure why I can't get the car to idle at all. Possible bad AFM? Would the car run without the AFM? I tried unplugging it and running it, although it ran a few seconds more, nothing good. Going to check over spark plugs tomorrow, maybe the heavily oil burning has fouled them. Still have not found a reason for it to smoke so much. Also if it would help, I can upload a video showing the issues / engine bay set up.
Things checked over:
Realigned CAS
Recalibrated TPS, no dead zones and reading good.
Boost leak tested
Also thinking of putting the car onto a standalone ECU as a last resort in order to "by-pass" AFM and other items. The car seems to die when it changes over from startup to running on it's sensor, if that's even a thing? I read a few forum posts on I saw it mentioned and it made sense.
11-13-22, 07:05 AM
#5
After putting the car back together, besides my O2 sensor which I am waiting on I'm still having the same issues. I did a boost leak test and fixed the ones I could find. I hooked up my fuel pressure regulator as well as previously mentioned, but to no luck the car still does not run. It simply fires up, and dies right after. The blue smoke continues as well. I tested another regulator as well from a spare I had and that did not help either.
I'm at a complete loss at this point, I'm not sure why I can't get the car to idle at all. Possible bad AFM? Would the car run without the AFM? I tried unplugging it and running it, although it ran a few seconds more, nothing good. Going to check over spark plugs tomorrow, maybe the heavily oil burning has fouled them. Still have not found a reason for it to smoke so much. Also if it would help, I can upload a video showing the issues / engine bay set up.
Things checked over:
Realigned CAS
Recalibrated TPS, no dead zones and reading good.
Boost leak tested
Also thinking of putting the car onto a standalone ECU as a last resort in order to "by-pass" AFM and other items. The car seems to die when it changes over from startup to running on it's sensor, if that's even a thing? I read a few forum posts on I saw it mentioned and it made sense.
I'm at a complete loss at this point, I'm not sure why I can't get the car to idle at all. Possible bad AFM? Would the car run without the AFM? I tried unplugging it and running it, although it ran a few seconds more, nothing good. Going to check over spark plugs tomorrow, maybe the heavily oil burning has fouled them. Still have not found a reason for it to smoke so much. Also if it would help, I can upload a video showing the issues / engine bay set up.
Things checked over:
Realigned CAS
Recalibrated TPS, no dead zones and reading good.
Boost leak tested
Also thinking of putting the car onto a standalone ECU as a last resort in order to "by-pass" AFM and other items. The car seems to die when it changes over from startup to running on it's sensor, if that's even a thing? I read a few forum posts on I saw it mentioned and it made sense.
Would fire right up and maybe idle, but any throttle input would kill it. I would pull it and test it per the FSM. There are resistance values you want to look for between certain pins. Also, if you have a known good one laying around, you could try swapping that in to see if it makes a difference
11-13-22, 10:15 PM
#6
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I got it to idle! Well, kind of. I took the whole AFM apart to inspect it and it seems brand new on the inside. I cleaned it out either way and plugged it back in. I also plugged in one of the water switches and it came alive! I let it warm up for about 10 minutes and I had to shut it off again to adjust the timing on it as it sounded a bit rough.
After taking out the cas to make sure it's still in time, I went to start it back up but it just cranked. Seems as it was getting no spark, but I did confirm that the spark plug cables are surely getting power by my buddy holding it while I cranked it by accident. His reaction told me there is power going through it.
I adjusted the CAS about five more time, but I'm unsure why I can't get it to fire anymore. I'm going to let it sit overnight as I think I might have flooded it?
After taking out the cas to make sure it's still in time, I went to start it back up but it just cranked. Seems as it was getting no spark, but I did confirm that the spark plug cables are surely getting power by my buddy holding it while I cranked it by accident. His reaction told me there is power going through it.
I adjusted the CAS about five more time, but I'm unsure why I can't get it to fire anymore. I'm going to let it sit overnight as I think I might have flooded it?
11-14-22, 12:36 PM
#7
I got it to idle! Well, kind of. I took the whole AFM apart to inspect it and it seems brand new on the inside. I cleaned it out either way and plugged it back in. I also plugged in one of the water switches and it came alive! I let it warm up for about 10 minutes and I had to shut it off again to adjust the timing on it as it sounded a bit rough.
After taking out the cas to make sure it's still in time, I went to start it back up but it just cranked. Seems as it was getting no spark, but I did confirm that the spark plug cables are surely getting power by my buddy holding it while I cranked it by accident. His reaction told me there is power going through it.
I adjusted the CAS about five more time, but I'm unsure why I can't get it to fire anymore. I'm going to let it sit overnight as I think I might have flooded it?
After taking out the cas to make sure it's still in time, I went to start it back up but it just cranked. Seems as it was getting no spark, but I did confirm that the spark plug cables are surely getting power by my buddy holding it while I cranked it by accident. His reaction told me there is power going through it.
I adjusted the CAS about five more time, but I'm unsure why I can't get it to fire anymore. I'm going to let it sit overnight as I think I might have flooded it?
For timing, rotate the engine over until the 5° mark lines up with the pin on the front cover. Pull out the CAS and align the dot on the bottom gear. Making sure it doesn't rotate, insert the CAS into the hole and bolt it down. This will make sure your timing is at least good enough to start the car
Try deflooding it as well. Pull both EGI fuses and crank for 10 second intervals, waiting a bit in between to let the starter cool down. Then try starting it.
Also check the plugs, make sure they're not fouled. And the coolant sensor on the back of the water pump housing, make sure it's plugged in
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