newbie question-how to make a NA FC fast
05-15-02, 04:22 AM
#1
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newbie question-how to make a NA FC fast
Just curious..looking to get a good auto X car and looking at a few options...now abouts would i go making a fast NA FC..no forced induction of any kind...and what would i need to make it handle tight..thanx guys.
05-15-02, 04:30 AM
#2
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Port the engine for more power. I think a SP would be the best for you. Small steeringwheel is good if you steer a lot. Stiffer springs. Sway bars. Better pedals.
05-15-02, 05:27 AM
#3
fart on a friends head!!!
make sure that you get the 89-91 rx-7. they come with 160+-5hp and the 86-88 came with 140+-5hp. its all in the intake manifold and computer and what not. fabricate a bunch of stuff. make a cai. you can get them to close to 200 hp. pretty nice if its an auto x car definately. TAKE THE WEIGHT OUT. . . as im sure you would do and that hp should be nice. change your gear ratios blahblahblah........... your gonna
05-15-02, 05:35 AM
#4
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Start simple and work your way up:
1) Learn how to drive (or work on your skills until they become "mAd sKiLlS Yo!!"
2) Remove weight. Start small (spare, matts, carpet, various redundant plastics etc) and go up (AC, PS, pump etc)
3) Cone filter, TID, cold-air box, ram-air-scoop, FTP, headlight scoop (all these for the intake)
4) Various bits of exhaust: mufflers, DP, Y-pipe, MP (in order of importance and legality-to-remove
)
5) Other small things like pulleys, pressure regulator, colder plugs, better wires, open 6ports
6) Then, if turbo is out the door, you should trying porting. I agree that a street port is adequate, if you want the car to be streetable...
Anyone want to correct me or add anything ?
1) Learn how to drive (or work on your skills until they become "mAd sKiLlS Yo!!"
2) Remove weight. Start small (spare, matts, carpet, various redundant plastics etc) and go up (AC, PS, pump etc)
3) Cone filter, TID, cold-air box, ram-air-scoop, FTP, headlight scoop (all these for the intake)
4) Various bits of exhaust: mufflers, DP, Y-pipe, MP (in order of importance and legality-to-remove
)5) Other small things like pulleys, pressure regulator, colder plugs, better wires, open 6ports
6) Then, if turbo is out the door, you should trying porting. I agree that a street port is adequate, if you want the car to be streetable...
Anyone want to correct me or add anything ?
05-15-02, 07:17 AM
#5
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You need a HUGE spoiler!!! Make all that downforce, cause all that mad torque is gunna mess with yer' rear!
I mean.... no, I think you have it all covered.
I mean.... no, I think you have it all covered.
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05-15-02, 08:17 AM
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stay away from speed mods, suspension is where its at. you can have a 10 second car, but a car that has tight handling will auto-X its *** till the end of time.
you got to be very careful about what you do. ANY mods you do can jump you up in class. be sure of the rules. obvious weight reduction is usually ok for local events. stick to suspension mods first. those will help you the most in auto-X. you really dont even need and speed mods.
you got to be very careful about what you do. ANY mods you do can jump you up in class. be sure of the rules. obvious weight reduction is usually ok for local events. stick to suspension mods first. those will help you the most in auto-X. you really dont even need and speed mods.
05-15-02, 09:24 AM
#9
If you are into auto crossing, just save your pennies for a couple years, and go out and buy a mp3, or a 3rd gen. With all the bolt-ons, with a n/a engine, (no porting) you're looking at around 190 flywheel hp max. With a ported engine and everything else, i just put down a hair under 170rwhp. People will tell you all sorts of numbers, but when it comes down to it, %90 of the people don't have any dyno time. my .2 cents. CJ
05-15-02, 09:35 AM
#10
Former Moderator. RIP Icemark.
Originally posted by rotorbrain
make sure that you get the 89-91 rx-7. they come with 160+-5hp and the 86-88 came with 140+-5hp. its all in the intake manifold and computer and what not.
make sure that you get the 89-91 rx-7. they come with 160+-5hp and the 86-88 came with 140+-5hp. its all in the intake manifold and computer and what not.
But, if I am autocrossing either basically stock I'd rather have the car that had 2600 lbs rather than 2800.
Road and track tested a 89 GXL and came up with a 8.6 second 0-60 while the 86 GXL tested by the same mag back in late 85 had a 8.0 second 0-60.
The only exception to this in my book would be the 89-90 GTUs. The 89-90 GTUs would be my first choice for an autoX or IT car. Followed by a 86-87 Sport and the a 88 GTU.
05-15-02, 12:50 PM
#11
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Look, if you're going to auto-x the car, then don't listen to 99% of the advice here. It's all about which class you want to compete in.
Stick with the stock class for now, and mod to the limit of that class. So, new shocks (Koni), front swaybar, exhaust, wheels/tires are about it. Get the car running as well as you can, add all of those parts, and go race. Hoosiers are great R compound tires, kinda pricey. Kumho V700s are good, Toyo Proxes RA-1s last a very long time (as R compound tires go)
Seat time Seat time Seat time. Get out there and DRIVE!
PaulC
Stick with the stock class for now, and mod to the limit of that class. So, new shocks (Koni), front swaybar, exhaust, wheels/tires are about it. Get the car running as well as you can, add all of those parts, and go race. Hoosiers are great R compound tires, kinda pricey. Kumho V700s are good, Toyo Proxes RA-1s last a very long time (as R compound tires go)
Seat time Seat time Seat time. Get out there and DRIVE!
PaulC
05-15-02, 01:32 PM
#12
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I'm with Silkworm. The very best thing you can do to have "fast" NA is to REALLY learn to drive it. Then spend your money on mods you can live with in your class. CACC classing is fun with the points thing. I'm able to be competitive in CSS with my 88 GTU, but I wouldn't be in the stock class.
05-15-02, 01:54 PM
#13
Originally posted by pp13bnos
If you are into auto crossing, just save your pennies for a couple years, and go out and buy a mp3, or a 3rd gen. With all the bolt-ons, with a n/a engine, (no porting) you're looking at around 190 flywheel hp max. With a ported engine and everything else, i just put down a hair under 170rwhp. People will tell you all sorts of numbers, but when it comes down to it, %90 of the people don't have any dyno time. my .2 cents. CJ
If you are into auto crossing, just save your pennies for a couple years, and go out and buy a mp3, or a 3rd gen. With all the bolt-ons, with a n/a engine, (no porting) you're looking at around 190 flywheel hp max. With a ported engine and everything else, i just put down a hair under 170rwhp. People will tell you all sorts of numbers, but when it comes down to it, %90 of the people don't have any dyno time. my .2 cents. CJ
ohh and I agree about the dyno time thing!
05-15-02, 01:57 PM
#14
Originally posted by Icemark
I disagree with this; the series 4 cars are not really any slower and weigh 200lbs less. The series 5 13B really only has 2Ft-lb more torque than the series 4 car as well.
But, if I am autocrossing either basically stock I'd rather have the car that had 2600 lbs rather than 2800.
Road and track tested a 89 GXL and came up with a 8.6 second 0-60 while the 86 GXL tested by the same mag back in late 85 had a 8.0 second 0-60.
The only exception to this in my book would be the 89-90 GTUs. The 89-90 GTUs would be my first choice for an autoX or IT car. Followed by a 86-87 Sport and the a 88 GTU.
I disagree with this; the series 4 cars are not really any slower and weigh 200lbs less. The series 5 13B really only has 2Ft-lb more torque than the series 4 car as well.
But, if I am autocrossing either basically stock I'd rather have the car that had 2600 lbs rather than 2800.
Road and track tested a 89 GXL and came up with a 8.6 second 0-60 while the 86 GXL tested by the same mag back in late 85 had a 8.0 second 0-60.
The only exception to this in my book would be the 89-90 GTUs. The 89-90 GTUs would be my first choice for an autoX or IT car. Followed by a 86-87 Sport and the a 88 GTU.
05-15-02, 03:56 PM
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Originally posted by KNONFS
Or you can use a 86-88 chassis with a 89-91 engine internals, I know a couple of guys over here doing that!
Or you can use a 86-88 chassis with a 89-91 engine internals, I know a couple of guys over here doing that!
PaulC
05-15-02, 10:56 PM
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wow..thanx for all the input guys and sorry about not doing a search but i'm kinda lazy...i want to be able to auto X it but make it streetable...daily driver...
05-15-02, 11:55 PM
#19
I just meant, (I say this, because i've been down this road before.) Unless you go with a bridge port, or bigger, the n/a 2nd gen car is never going to be fast. No if, ands or butts. Lets be honest withour selves, even 170rwhp is'nt that fast. Even if someone where to build a bridge port, a very mildy modded turbo car will walk circles around it.
My 3rd gen with a down pipe, and RB intake ran the same mph in the 1/4 mile that my 13B peripheral engine did. The nice thing about the 3rd gen was that i did it almost a second faster.
The 2nd gen cars are nice. (I've owned lots.) But do your self a favor, and don't build it. Save your pennies, and buy a 2nd car (preferably turbo) then build the crap out of it.
CJ
My 3rd gen with a down pipe, and RB intake ran the same mph in the 1/4 mile that my 13B peripheral engine did. The nice thing about the 3rd gen was that i did it almost a second faster.
The 2nd gen cars are nice. (I've owned lots.) But do your self a favor, and don't build it. Save your pennies, and buy a 2nd car (preferably turbo) then build the crap out of it.
CJ
05-16-02, 01:37 AM
#21
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Originally posted by giant killer
not to sound dumb but whats bridge porting?
not to sound dumb but whats bridge porting?
Bridge Port (BP) and Peripheral Port (PP) are two ways of making your rotary engine breath a lot better at high RPMs, but really turn it into a dog at low RPMs. Usually includes balancing and lightening of various parts, along with the extra port and the "porting" of everything that leads in and out of the housing
05-16-02, 08:03 AM
#22
Originally posted by pp13bnos
I just meant, (I say this, because i've been down this road before.) Unless you go with a bridge port, or bigger, the n/a 2nd gen car is never going to be fast. No if, ands or butts. Lets be honest withour selves, even 170rwhp is'nt that fast. Even if someone where to build a bridge port, a very mildy modded turbo car will walk circles around it.
My 3rd gen with a down pipe, and RB intake ran the same mph in the 1/4 mile that my 13B peripheral engine did. The nice thing about the 3rd gen was that i did it almost a second faster.
The 2nd gen cars are nice. (I've owned lots.) But do your self a favor, and don't build it. Save your pennies, and buy a 2nd car (preferably turbo) then build the crap out of it.
CJ
I just meant, (I say this, because i've been down this road before.) Unless you go with a bridge port, or bigger, the n/a 2nd gen car is never going to be fast. No if, ands or butts. Lets be honest withour selves, even 170rwhp is'nt that fast. Even if someone where to build a bridge port, a very mildy modded turbo car will walk circles around it.
My 3rd gen with a down pipe, and RB intake ran the same mph in the 1/4 mile that my 13B peripheral engine did. The nice thing about the 3rd gen was that i did it almost a second faster.
The 2nd gen cars are nice. (I've owned lots.) But do your self a favor, and don't build it. Save your pennies, and buy a 2nd car (preferably turbo) then build the crap out of it.
CJ
IMHO, since I already have a NA with I\H\E, I will proceed with a Haltech, after that a T2 engine will be in order. Sure it will take time for me to build what I want, but building it myself will be the other side of the fun.
05-18-02, 05:28 PM
#23
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Most engine mods are unneeded for autoX. As has been stated in this thread before, your best bets are tires, then suspension. Lighter wheels can help some in they do not take as long of time to be stopped/started again. Horsepower is really only an issue if you were going to race the car in SCCA type of race track events where top speed is an issue.
But the most important thing is seat time and learning how to make yourself a better driver. I used to have a stock 85 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with only upgraded tires. I used to beat the times of people with 944's, MR2's and 240-SX's all the time when I was just playing around.
The big problem is making too many mods that bumps you into another class and you can mod yourself right out of contention.
Good luck
But the most important thing is seat time and learning how to make yourself a better driver. I used to have a stock 85 Thunderbird Turbo Coupe with only upgraded tires. I used to beat the times of people with 944's, MR2's and 240-SX's all the time when I was just playing around.
The big problem is making too many mods that bumps you into another class and you can mod yourself right out of contention.
Good luck
05-19-02, 03:15 AM
#24
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Originally posted by pp13bnos
I just meant, (I say this, because i've been down this road before.) Unless you go with a bridge port, or bigger, the n/a 2nd gen car is never going to be fast. No if, ands or butts. Lets be honest withour selves, even 170rwhp is'nt that fast. Even if someone where to build a bridge port, a very mildy modded turbo car will walk circles around it.
My 3rd gen with a down pipe, and RB intake ran the same mph in the 1/4 mile that my 13B peripheral engine did. The nice thing about the 3rd gen was that i did it almost a second faster.
The 2nd gen cars are nice. (I've owned lots.) But do your self a favor, and don't build it. Save your pennies, and buy a 2nd car (preferably turbo) then build the crap out of it.
CJ
I just meant, (I say this, because i've been down this road before.) Unless you go with a bridge port, or bigger, the n/a 2nd gen car is never going to be fast. No if, ands or butts. Lets be honest withour selves, even 170rwhp is'nt that fast. Even if someone where to build a bridge port, a very mildy modded turbo car will walk circles around it.
My 3rd gen with a down pipe, and RB intake ran the same mph in the 1/4 mile that my 13B peripheral engine did. The nice thing about the 3rd gen was that i did it almost a second faster.
The 2nd gen cars are nice. (I've owned lots.) But do your self a favor, and don't build it. Save your pennies, and buy a 2nd car (preferably turbo) then build the crap out of it.
CJ