New engine warm start issues. Smells very lean
#26
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Took me awhile but i got some Numbers off the ECU.. Some pop out at me. and dont look right. Such as Pin 2i. But here it is. let me know what you think..
Car cold. not bone cold. KEY ON
N327 EGI computer
2a 4.97 V V ref ?
2b 0 no turbo.
2c o ground
2d 0 02sensor
2e 4.02v air flow meter
2f 4.97 v ver Resistor
2g 1.79v throttle sensor
2h 4.02v pressure sensor
2i 4.96v ??? water thermal sensor
2j 2.61v intake air temp
2k 0 Split air Soliniod
2l 3.74 v another intake air sensor
2m 0.73v pressure soliniod valve not sure what this is
2n 11.26v car off key on EGR
2o 11.26v car off key on switch solenoid valve
2p 0 volts ? relefe soleniod valve
2q 1.35 v Bypass air
2r Ground. 0.001
anything strange here? here is the link to what they should read..
http://imgur.com/iVQlO
Car cold. not bone cold. KEY ON
N327 EGI computer
2a 4.97 V V ref ?
2b 0 no turbo.
2c o ground
2d 0 02sensor
2e 4.02v air flow meter
2f 4.97 v ver Resistor
2g 1.79v throttle sensor
2h 4.02v pressure sensor
2i 4.96v ??? water thermal sensor
2j 2.61v intake air temp
2k 0 Split air Soliniod
2l 3.74 v another intake air sensor
2m 0.73v pressure soliniod valve not sure what this is
2n 11.26v car off key on EGR
2o 11.26v car off key on switch solenoid valve
2p 0 volts ? relefe soleniod valve
2q 1.35 v Bypass air
2r Ground. 0.001
anything strange here? here is the link to what they should read..
http://imgur.com/iVQlO
#27
Trunk Ornament
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Sounds like you adjusted the idle mix screw so much that it got damaged and is now internally open (Giving you a near 5v reading at 2f). 2b is the boost sensor, and although your car isn't turbocharged, for some reason Mazda still decided to call what's commonly referred to as the MAP sensor, a "boost" sensor. You should go back and check it. I doubt it's bad though, you can at least drive your car normally once you get it going, right? Once again, back to the TPS, fully warm, adjust it to 1.000v. 2q might or might not be off. Remember that the ECU controls the pulse width going to the BAC, so if you put the multimeter on the %duty setting, you should get something between 0-100%. It's a square wave pulsed DC, so it might show a pretty low voltage if it's on a low duty cycle.
#28
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In addition to what AGreen stated, pin 2B is not good at all, 2F is a bit high there, 2G needs to be measured w/the car completely warmed up, meaning at least 20 minutes of driving time, and it should read 1 volt at that time. If it does not, then adjust the TPS screw til it does. Pin 2K needs to be measured w/the car in 5th gear, otherwise it should be 12 volts. 2L should be 1 to 2 volts w/the engine fully warmed up. And 2Q is way off. And pin 2P is off, but that could be a function of the TPS waiting to be adjusted properly.
#29
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Sounds like you adjusted the idle mix screw so much that it got damaged and is now internally open (Giving you a near 5v reading at 2f). 2b is the boost sensor, and although your car isn't turbocharged, for some reason Mazda still decided to call what's commonly referred to as the MAP sensor, a "boost" sensor. You should go back and check it. I doubt it's bad though, you can at least drive your car normally once you get it going, right? Once again, back to the TPS, fully warm, adjust it to 1.000v. 2q might or might not be off. Remember that the ECU controls the pulse width going to the BAC, so if you put the multimeter on the %duty setting, you should get something between 0-100%. It's a square wave pulsed DC, so it might show a pretty low voltage if it's on a low duty cycle.
Thanks for all your guys help. means alot
Last edited by rx7_FREAKKK; 12-03-11 at 06:26 PM.
#30
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In addition to what AGreen stated, pin 2B is not good at all, 2F is a bit high there, 2G needs to be measured w/the car completely warmed up, meaning at least 20 minutes of driving time, and it should read 1 volt at that time. If it does not, then adjust the TPS screw til it does. Pin 2K needs to be measured w/the car in 5th gear, otherwise it should be 12 volts. 2L should be 1 to 2 volts w/the engine fully warmed up. And 2Q is way off. And pin 2P is off, but that could be a function of the TPS waiting to be adjusted properly.
#31
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Pin 2B is for the Pressure sensor. If the car were a turbo it would be called the Boost Sensor. Either way, the rectangular Black box w/the vacuum hose that is mounted to the passenger strut tower needs to be in working order. It has four wires including a ground wire, V ref wire, switched voltage wire and an output wire. V ref has 5 volts w/key to on, switched has 12 volts w/key to on and this wire is B/W and the output wire should have 3.5 to 4 volts w/key to on and vacuum hose removed and capped and this is the wire which runs to the ECU at pin 2B and it is Brown/Red.
#32
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Pin 2B is for the Pressure sensor. If the car were a turbo it would be called the Boost Sensor. Either way, the rectangular Black box w/the vacuum hose that is mounted to the passenger strut tower needs to be in working order. It has four wires including a ground wire, V ref wire, switched voltage wire and an output wire. V ref has 5 volts w/key to on, switched has 12 volts w/key to on and this wire is B/W and the output wire should have 3.5 to 4 volts w/key to on and vacuum hose removed and capped and this is the wire which runs to the ECU at pin 2B and it is Brown/Red.
#33
Sharp Claws
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i think you have 2 issues
1) low mileage rebuild, needs more time to build compression
and
2) improper timing
going off the other thread your CAS was aligned improperly, telling me you either have the wrong front timing pulley on your hub, the CAS is off one tooth or the CAS drive gear was installed backwards.
a 3rd unlikely possibility is a diaphragm failure in the fuel pressure regulator. i had one car that had constant hot start issues, it drug *** to start when hot.. after several days wasted testing various things i found fuel pissing out of the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator into the intake tract after shutting the engine down, replaced the FPR and the car worked perfect.
an improper timing pulley will also give those symptoms.
1) low mileage rebuild, needs more time to build compression
and
2) improper timing
going off the other thread your CAS was aligned improperly, telling me you either have the wrong front timing pulley on your hub, the CAS is off one tooth or the CAS drive gear was installed backwards.
a 3rd unlikely possibility is a diaphragm failure in the fuel pressure regulator. i had one car that had constant hot start issues, it drug *** to start when hot.. after several days wasted testing various things i found fuel pissing out of the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator into the intake tract after shutting the engine down, replaced the FPR and the car worked perfect.
an improper timing pulley will also give those symptoms.
Last edited by RotaryEvolution; 12-03-11 at 07:15 PM.
#34
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i think you have 2 issues
1) low mileage rebuild, needs more time to build compression
and
2) improper timing
going off the other thread your CAS was aligned improperly, telling me you either have the wrong front timing pulley on your hub, the CAS is off one tooth or the CAS drive gear was installed backwards.
a 3rd unlikely possibility is a diaphragm failure in the fuel pressure regulator. i had one car that had constant hot start issues, it drug *** to start when hot.. after several days wasted testing various things i found fuel pissing out of the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator into the intake tract after shutting the engine down, replaced the FPR and the car worked perfect.
an improper timing pulley will also give those symptoms.
1) low mileage rebuild, needs more time to build compression
and
2) improper timing
going off the other thread your CAS was aligned improperly, telling me you either have the wrong front timing pulley on your hub, the CAS is off one tooth or the CAS drive gear was installed backwards.
a 3rd unlikely possibility is a diaphragm failure in the fuel pressure regulator. i had one car that had constant hot start issues, it drug *** to start when hot.. after several days wasted testing various things i found fuel pissing out of the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator into the intake tract after shutting the engine down, replaced the FPR and the car worked perfect.
an improper timing pulley will also give those symptoms.
the cas drive gear i put in slanded edge in? isnt that Right? the cas is moving Counter Clockwise. did i do something wrong? I dont remember seeing a timing pully on a 13b!
Last edited by rx7_FREAKKK; 12-03-11 at 07:39 PM.
#36
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Timing pulley = eccentric shaft pulley that has the yellow and red marks
You seem to have more issues than previously thought.
You definitely have sensor problems. Those have been identified already. Here's a tidbit of info that you'll find useful. The ECU takes in 12v, but uses 5v to send to sensors (most). The sensor is usually something simple, like a thermistor that changes resistance based on temperature, or a variable resistor (TPS). So the ECU sends 5 volts to the sensor, and the sensor, depending on what it does, modifies the voltage and sends it back to the ECU. The output range of most sensors falls between 0.5v, and 4.5v. If you see one that's sitting dead at 0v or 5v, then it's either shorted or open.
Known issues:
Your variable resistor (the idle mixture screw) is showing 5v.
Same for your water thermosensor.
Boost sensor, as stated 2x already, should not be 0v.
TPS, not properly adjusted
(split air, yada yada kind of stuff, but that's something you should worry about later on, once this other stuff's taken care of)
Timing? WTF. Get the idle speed set correctly, fully warmed up, jumper the initial set coupler, set timing. If you have the wrong pulleys or CAS stabbed wrong, or the drive gear backwards, then fix it before doing anything else. Period.
Karack's right about the low mileage rebuild with used housings. It just takes a while for them to build compression, and that's just reality.
You seem to have more issues than previously thought.
You definitely have sensor problems. Those have been identified already. Here's a tidbit of info that you'll find useful. The ECU takes in 12v, but uses 5v to send to sensors (most). The sensor is usually something simple, like a thermistor that changes resistance based on temperature, or a variable resistor (TPS). So the ECU sends 5 volts to the sensor, and the sensor, depending on what it does, modifies the voltage and sends it back to the ECU. The output range of most sensors falls between 0.5v, and 4.5v. If you see one that's sitting dead at 0v or 5v, then it's either shorted or open.
Known issues:
Your variable resistor (the idle mixture screw) is showing 5v.
Same for your water thermosensor.
Boost sensor, as stated 2x already, should not be 0v.
TPS, not properly adjusted
(split air, yada yada kind of stuff, but that's something you should worry about later on, once this other stuff's taken care of)
Timing? WTF. Get the idle speed set correctly, fully warmed up, jumper the initial set coupler, set timing. If you have the wrong pulleys or CAS stabbed wrong, or the drive gear backwards, then fix it before doing anything else. Period.
Karack's right about the low mileage rebuild with used housings. It just takes a while for them to build compression, and that's just reality.
#37
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Thanks for your help. First things First. How can i make sure i put the cas drive Gear in the correct way when engine is together? I watched aaron cakes video about the cas drive Gear. I looked at the Gear. Its identical from both directions. But i put it in the way i thought it was to go. I been looking for posts about the drive gear. and cant find it.. but i timed it. seems to be timed. he claims the timing would always be off if the gear was on wrong. he did not go into how it would effect timing.
#38
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If you installed it incorrectly, you'd have to adjust it to the max, and it'd still be off by a degree or 2. Then, you'd think it was stabbed incorrectly, and move it back 1 tooth and you'd have to max it out the other way, only to be a degree or 2 off.
If you're timing it correctly, then you have it installed correctly. But once again, to time it properly, it must have a smooth, stable idle at 1000 or below, fully warmed up, with the initial set coupler installed.
If you have the wrong eccentric shaft pulley, then the timing marks wont line up. Not sure if you have the right pulley or not, but I think that's what Karack was alluding to.
If you're timing it correctly, then you have it installed correctly. But once again, to time it properly, it must have a smooth, stable idle at 1000 or below, fully warmed up, with the initial set coupler installed.
If you have the wrong eccentric shaft pulley, then the timing marks wont line up. Not sure if you have the right pulley or not, but I think that's what Karack was alluding to.
#39
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If you installed it incorrectly, you'd have to adjust it to the max, and it'd still be off by a degree or 2. Then, you'd think it was stabbed incorrectly, and move it back 1 tooth and you'd have to max it out the other way, only to be a degree or 2 off.
If you're timing it correctly, then you have it installed correctly. But once again, to time it properly, it must have a smooth, stable idle at 1000 or below, fully warmed up, with the initial set coupler installed.
If you have the wrong eccentric shaft pulley, then the timing marks wont line up. Not sure if you have the right pulley or not, but I think that's what Karack was alluding to.
If you're timing it correctly, then you have it installed correctly. But once again, to time it properly, it must have a smooth, stable idle at 1000 or below, fully warmed up, with the initial set coupler installed.
If you have the wrong eccentric shaft pulley, then the timing marks wont line up. Not sure if you have the right pulley or not, but I think that's what Karack was alluding to.
Ok im good then.. Cas is dead center, and timed right on the "YELLOW" mark to Pin. pully is same that came with engine.
#41
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Nothing wrong with that. I was not 100% sure since i put the engine together.. it was always in the back of my mind also. So now i feel better. I think this engine needs more time on the road. like you said. So i might take it to Bellingham. and drive chuckanut a few times
#42
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Time to get a multimeter and start checking things. First, since you've moved the TPS, you need to verify it's set at 1.000v at idle warm. Are you setting the timing properly by verifying the idle speed, then jumpering the initial set coupler, and then adjusting the timing?
Next, I'd bust out the voltmeter and start checking voltages at the back of the ECU connectors. Items such as the AFM, coolant temp sensor, pressure sensor, etc. In the fuel/emissions section of the FSM, you'll find a chart with all the appropriate voltages for which pin. Also, verify the idle mixture screw is still good by doing a resistance check on it.
Engine performance diagnostics on pre-OBD cars is a bitch.
The issue I ran into after an engine rebuild was with my coolant thermosensor (the engine coolant temp sensor). It wasn't the sensor, it was the wiring. You couldn't tell by looking at it. The pins were pulled out of the back of the connector just enough to prevent it from making contact with the sensor.
Next, I'd bust out the voltmeter and start checking voltages at the back of the ECU connectors. Items such as the AFM, coolant temp sensor, pressure sensor, etc. In the fuel/emissions section of the FSM, you'll find a chart with all the appropriate voltages for which pin. Also, verify the idle mixture screw is still good by doing a resistance check on it.
Engine performance diagnostics on pre-OBD cars is a bitch.
The issue I ran into after an engine rebuild was with my coolant thermosensor (the engine coolant temp sensor). It wasn't the sensor, it was the wiring. You couldn't tell by looking at it. The pins were pulled out of the back of the connector just enough to prevent it from making contact with the sensor.
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