New engine warm start issues. Smells very lean
New engine wont start warm,, Speeds up but wont catch. If i retard the timing i can get it to catch. but then i need to change the timing back to normal. Running very lean it seems. not sure why. I unplugged the BAC, checked for vac leaks. when i hit the gas when its running sometimes it idles to far down and wont recover. i adjusted the Tps back and forth. Im not sure if its normal for a new engine. But i never had an engine run lean when running like this before. its an 88gxl stock ecu Not sure how to richen it up, the idle rich screw just gos around and around.. Any ideas TY
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Time to get a multimeter and start checking things. First, since you've moved the TPS, you need to verify it's set at 1.000v at idle warm. Are you setting the timing properly by verifying the idle speed, then jumpering the initial set coupler, and then adjusting the timing?
Next, I'd bust out the voltmeter and start checking voltages at the back of the ECU connectors. Items such as the AFM, coolant temp sensor, pressure sensor, etc. In the fuel/emissions section of the FSM, you'll find a chart with all the appropriate voltages for which pin. Also, verify the idle mixture screw is still good by doing a resistance check on it. Engine performance diagnostics on pre-OBD cars is a bitch. The issue I ran into after an engine rebuild was with my coolant thermosensor (the engine coolant temp sensor). It wasn't the sensor, it was the wiring. You couldn't tell by looking at it. The pins were pulled out of the back of the connector just enough to prevent it from making contact with the sensor. |
Originally Posted by AGreen
(Post 10884962)
Time to get a multimeter and start checking things. First, since you've moved the TPS, you need to verify it's set at 1.000v at idle warm. Are you setting the timing properly by verifying the idle speed, then jumpering the initial set coupler, and then adjusting the timing?
Next, I'd bust out the voltmeter and start checking voltages at the back of the ECU connectors. Items such as the AFM, coolant temp sensor, pressure sensor, etc. In the fuel/emissions section of the FSM, you'll find a chart with all the appropriate voltages for which pin. Also, verify the idle mixture screw is still good by doing a resistance check on it. Engine performance diagnostics on pre-OBD cars is a bitch. The issue I ran into after an engine rebuild was with my coolant thermosensor (the engine coolant temp sensor). It wasn't the sensor, it was the wiring. You couldn't tell by looking at it. The pins were pulled out of the back of the connector just enough to prevent it from making contact with the sensor. |
Originally Posted by rx7_FREAKKK
(Post 10884971)
Well i will start with the tps with the volt meter then, i will hit the idle adjust screw. Im just not good at the ecu pin thingy. I hate that stuff.. But i will give it a try. i gotta start somewhere. Thank you
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The Water Thermosensor should read close to a .5 volts w/key to on and the engine fully warmed. This signal is read at the ECU at pin 2I which is a Green/White wire. Pin 2I is found in the second largest ECU plug, top row, middle pin. Use either of the front mounting bolts of the ECU for the multimeter ground.
The Idle Adjust Screw is on top of the throttle body. The Variable Resistor is the screw by the Pressure Sensor that adjusts the rich/lean mixture and when you play with this screw the engine needs to be fully warmed and the Initial Set Coupler jumpered. Neither screw should turn endlessly. The coupler also needs to be jumpered when the Idle Adjustment Screw is played with. And when the BAC is disconnected you're removing one of the items that stabilizes the idle to 750 rpm when load is encountered by the engine. |
Originally Posted by satch
(Post 10885038)
The Water Thermosensor should read close to a .5 volts w/key to on and the engine fully warmed. This signal is read at the ECU at pin 2I which is a Green/White wire. Pin 2I is found in the second largest ECU plug, top row, middle pin. Use either of the front mounting bolts of the ECU for the multimeter ground.
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TPS is 1.000 volts fully warmed up at pin 2G, which is just to the right of pin 2I. I don't know what color it is.
The way you do pinout checks is by taking the black lead an putting it on one of the bolts at the ecu like Satch said. Then, with the key on, ecu still plugged in, stick the red lead in the back of the connector to touch the terminal for the appropriate wire. Read the voltage. Resistance checks are NOT good indicators of whether components are good or not. For instance, you can do resistance checks on components, and they can even fall out of spec, but still be good. Voltage checks are accurate. There's no substitute. (Keep in mind though, the idle mixture screw is a variable resistor, so checking resistance on a resistor is just how you check it. Checking resistance on an item like a crank angle sensor is not an appropriate way of testing) http://www.rotaryheads.com/PDF/2nd_g...systems_na.pdf This is going to be your friend from now on. I'd print it out to have a paper copy nearby. Pages 4a-30 through 4a-32 is really, really good info. |
Originally Posted by AGreen
(Post 10885059)
TPS is 1.000 volts fully warmed up at pin 2G, which is just to the right of pin 2I. I don't know what color it is.
The way you do pinout checks is by taking the black lead an putting it on one of the bolts at the ecu like Satch said. Then, with the key on, ecu still plugged in, stick the red lead in the back of the connector to touch the terminal for the appropriate wire. Read the voltage. Resistance checks are NOT good indicators of whether components are good or not. For instance, you can do resistance checks on components, and they can even fall out of spec, but still be good. Voltage checks are accurate. There's no substitute. (Keep in mind though, the idle mixture screw is a variable resistor, so checking resistance on a resistor is just how you check it. Checking resistance on an item like a crank angle sensor is not an appropriate way of testing) http://www.rotaryheads.com/PDF/2nd_g...systems_na.pdf This is going to be your friend from now on. I'd print it out to have a paper copy nearby. Pages 4a-30 through 4a-32 is really, really good info. |
Some pins can be read when cold and some not. The Water Thermosensor is .5 volts warm and 2 to 3 volts cold. The TPS must be read w/the engine fully warmed up and the engine running or immediately after it is turned off after it has been fully warmed up.
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Originally Posted by satch
(Post 10885083)
Some pins can be read when cold and some not. The Water Thermosensor is .5 volts warm and 2 to 3 volts cold. The TPS must be read w/the engine fully warmed up and the engine running or immediately after it is turned off after it has been fully warmed up.
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Tps reads 5 plus when warm. Cant even get it down to 1. Unless its full out Plunger can that make it run lean?
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Originally Posted by rx7_FREAKKK
(Post 10885108)
what the hell is the TPS Reading off of that makes the Ohms go UP as the car cools down?
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Originally Posted by rx7_FREAKKK
(Post 10885132)
Tps reads 5 plus when warm. Cant even get it down to 1. Unless its full out Plunger can that make it run lean?
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Well... I really don't think that could make it run lean, but surge like hell though. You say you can't get the reading down below 5 volts fully warm, unless the plunger is fully extended? The plunger should be almost completely collapsed with the throttle shut. Does adjusting it make ANY difference?
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switched out tps. same problem. still looking
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Originally Posted by satch
(Post 10885143)
Are you certain you're measuring the right ECU pin? And are you by chance confusing the TPS w/the Water Thermosensor? Pin 2G (Green/Red wire) is the TPS for an S4 and pin 2I (Green/White) is the Water Thermosensor for an S4. Do not ohm out the ECU w/key to on! (this can cause damage) You test for voltage only.
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Originally Posted by rx7_FREAKKK
(Post 10885159)
switched out tps. same problem. still looking
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Took me awhile but i got some Numbers off the ECU.. Some pop out at me. and dont look right. Such as Pin 2i. But here it is. let me know what you think..
Car cold. not bone cold. KEY ON N327 EGI computer 2a 4.97 V V ref ? 2b 0 no turbo. 2c o ground 2d 0 02sensor 2e 4.02v air flow meter 2f 4.97 v ver Resistor 2g 1.79v throttle sensor 2h 4.02v pressure sensor 2i 4.96v ??? water thermal sensor 2j 2.61v intake air temp 2k 0 Split air Soliniod 2l 3.74 v another intake air sensor 2m 0.73v pressure soliniod valve not sure what this is 2n 11.26v car off key on EGR 2o 11.26v car off key on switch solenoid valve 2p 0 volts ? relefe soleniod valve 2q 1.35 v Bypass air 2r Ground. 0.001 anything strange here? here is the link to what they should read.. http://imgur.com/iVQlO |
Originally Posted by satch
(Post 10885162)
Please, for the life of Brian, tell us which wire you are measuring that states the TPS is at 5 volts and the location of that wire.
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Change pin 2i to 2.05v. i Unplugged it thinking it would ix the problem forgot to plug it in
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Originally Posted by rx7_FREAKKK
(Post 10885395)
Change pin 2i to 2.05v. i Unplugged it thinking it would ix the problem forgot to plug it in
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NM. I got it started. rolled it out of the Garage at 2 am. drove it hard for an hour. I think its working.
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Your water thermosensor is a smoking gun. 4.96v? Even with the engine cold, it should not read near 5v. You have an open wire somewhere. Unplug the water thermosensor and see if the pins are making contact. You may need to pull the alternator off to get to it. It's located right behind the thermostat housing.
Good luck! I think you're almost there :) |
And properly adjust your tps!
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